Canadian Poverty

[I Think]

It occurs to me that maybe they should quit making babies. At some point in time, some of these people need to assume some responsibility for the lives they create.

When ever a species survival is threatened, its birth rate goes up, fish must breed in the thousands, to rear enough fish to keep up the population. The rule even applies to the garden, to bring fruit to bear, the farmer stresses the fruit trees. When a womans children are dying off, she becomes more fertile, it is simply how nature does its best to make the species survive.

If a fetus and young child does not get enough nutrients, its iq will be challenged, so when we are dealing with one or more generations that have suffered starvation, we will have a society that has limited ability to learn and retain learnings.

You are asking a group to take intelligent logical actions, when their very ability to do so is compromised by starvation.

[CJT84]

The first world caused this problem in the first place and is now perpetuating it by trying to "help" by sustaining a population that would have almost zero prospect of sustaining itself without intervention.

Africa (and pretty much EVERY starving country I can think of) was doing just fine before first world interests got involved. And in the 40 years of unicef and all the other "helpers" in my lifetime, we have perpetuated misery far beyond its natural course.

Shipping food 1/2 way around the world as some sort of solution is complete madness (but whatever helps you sleep at night I guess..... )

Africa doing fine before contact with Europeans? You're having a bit of a laugh aren't you? The mortality rate was far higher per percentage of births than it is today in Africa. The poor countries aren't poor because of exploitation, they are poor and starving because of local corruption and war. Show me any country in Africa that has a large starving population and you'll find local corruption and war. Why are there more people starving than before? Because most of them didnt' die in childbirth as they did previously.

The "west" has done more to help Africans than to hurt them. The ones hurting Africans are other africans primarily through tribal warfare and corruption. Africa is a very complex place, it's made up of many countries who all have unique issues. Libya has different issues from Ethiopia, Sudan has different issues from Liberia. To make a blanket statement that everything in Africa is the fault of the west is pure ignorance and shows no understanding of what is going on in any region of the continent.

Do western corporations turn a blind eye to political corruption in Africa? Yes they often do, so do the Chinese and the Indians who have business operations there. You don't seem to care or mention about the Chinese businesses in Africa that have been caught shooting workers who won't work http://www.africareview.com/News/Protests%20as%20Chinese%20managers%20shoot%20Zambian%20mine%20workers/-/979180/1033722/-/jlumw9/-/index.html since that doesn't fit with your narrative.

You seem to have the idea that if the west took away all aid (financial, medical and food) that corruption in Africa and tribal warfare would just disappear. That's absolute nonsense "noble savage" theory crap.

[_Hello_]

It occurs to me that maybe they should quit making babies. At some point in time, some of these people need to assume some responsibility for the lives they create. So maybe they don't have access to birth control? Bull. If their kids are dying, they can stop making them. I am not obligated to feed their starving children because some guy can't keep it in his pants.

If I feel the need to "help" someone, I hand it to them personally or do something for them that makes a definite and positive improvement to their daily life.

All that Haitian aid money the Canadian government collected "for the Red Cross" has yet to show up in Haiti and those people, for all your generosity, are just as hungry, just as homeless, and even sicker than when the earthquake rocked their world. Three world governments make sure of that - Canada, USA and France. It suits them and their hunger for Haitian oil reserves to keep the people poor. They can control them better that way. Hell, they even hand-picked the Haitian president after they had control issues with the old one the people chose.

The dictators and armies that rule these third world countries steal any aid you send them and next to nothing gets through to the people you are so determined to help. Religious organizations brainwash the people and taunt them with food and shoe boxes full of trinkets to convert them to their own brand of cult. For them, its not really about helping, it's about converting them and gaining religious power over them. You're not helping the people, you're feeding dictators and armies and religious cults who work against the people.

And before you slam me about religions, I will remind you that those people already have a religion - it just doesn't happen to be yours or one that you find acceptable.

Well said!! I agree with the whole birth control, instead of MONEY we should send them birth control and condoms and maybe teach them how to stop having children that they VERY WELL KNOW CANNOT TAKE CARE OF or even know that once the baby is born will die son after, do to lack of everything! a lack of common sense maybe? I also agree with the rest of the things you said.

[_Hello_]

So what do you say about the Canadian commercials where the lady has to choose between shelter or a can of food? I think there are some families who can't afford to shop at either of the places you suggested. The food shelters have been over flowing with new people.

What do I say about a commercial? It's beautifully done TV spot made by professionals, with professionals actors with a simple goal in mind - to get you to donate money for their cause. It's hardly an indicator of how things are in Canada. I don't see Canada being a poverty stricken country.

When was the last time you heard of somebody die of hunger in Canada? Never happens. In other countries people die of hunger every day.

Obviously you do not travel much or watch much Canadian news, or even care to pay any of your attention to the reality of Canadian poverty. You said: "with a simple goal in mind - to get you to donate money for their cause" what cause is that exactly??? and don't you think that's the goal of every commercial on tv for Africa and other countries. SO what if the Canadian children are not dying YET, why shouldn't Canada nip in the butt, just in case it ever does get to that point? Since no one can tell the future. Should it be Canada's responsibility to take care of children that these people do not have enough sense to stop having?? knowing damn well they can't afford to take care of them?? If we continue to help they get used to that and keep on having this kids, knowing Canada will support them. Is that the way of thinking we want these people to have???

[WhatThe]

You do realize Hello that there's nosuch thing as a single bread winner in these nations right? That it takes an entire family to make ends meet. That many children don't make it before the age of five and they are needed to help with the sustenance type farming or collection of "trash".
I think you and GF are being a little naive to think that the single most influential drive in humans, procreation, can just be stopped. Even with all the education and resources we have here there's still teen pregnancy and unwanted children.

There's no doubt that at least providing condoms would help but then enter the Vatican and good ole George bushy to prevent that.

[_Hello_]

You do realize Hello that there's nosuch thing as a single bread winner in these nations right? That it takes an entire family to make ends meet. That many children don't make it before the age of five and they are needed to help with the sustenance type farming or collection of "trash".
I think you and GF are being a little naive to think that the single most influential drive in humans, procreation, can just be stopped. Even with all the education and resources we have here there's still teen pregnancy and unwanted children.

There's no doubt that at least providing condoms would help but then enter the Vatican and good ole George bushy to prevent that.

You does realise WhatThe that there is such thing as poverty in Canada!?! I do realize that it takes an entire family to make ends meet, i'm sure most Canadians LIVE AND UNDERSTAND that too! My point and opinion is that with the certain places in Africa and such, the reality is that it WILL NEVER END. So if what Canada and others are doing by just shipping over food, money and supplies, it is obviously NOT working to stop or even S L O W down the problem, then why not try to use the money in other ways?!?! like what was said before instead of shipping over shoes, while the local shoemakers in town loose out on money and work, why doesn't Canada buy $20,000 or whatever amount worth of shoes from the LOCAL shoemaker, that way HE makes money and can use towards his family at the same time he gets WORK to make the shoes for the people. why doesn't Canada use the money to buy locally THERE?

[I Think]

why doesn't Canada use the money to buy locally THERE?

That would be much more effective than handouts. We do need to remember that when you are up to your a$$ in alligators (starvation) the goal was to drain the swamp.

A couple of other things that have been very effective are solar arrays to pump water for drip irrigation and domestic water, & micro loans.

[grammafreddy]

Common sense should tell us that if what we are doing (and have done for decades now) isn't working, then it's time to look at why it isn't and time to look at different ways. Only the stupid repeat mistakes over and over and expect different results every time.

However, I still maintain that it is not our government's job to provide for people in other countries. Our government's responsibility lies in its own people. If people individually want to donate their money, either by direct donation to aid organizations or through their religious associations, then that's their prerogative, but to use the people's tax dollars for the benefit of people in other countries is irresponsible and not in the mandate of governing a country - especially when most of the "good" the people think they are doing is not actually what they are getting for their money.

The globalists will argue, of course, but then I don't subscribe to the globalists' theories. Their arguments are based on yarding on people's heart strings and making us all feel guilty for not being part of the starving masses. We're supposed to look at images of dying skeletal children and think if we just give more and more of our money we can fix those kids. We send aid to women to start businesses but what good that does is lost when corrupt governments take the profits those women would have to spend on improving their lives. We buy goods handmade by people in third world countries through outlets like Ten Thousand Villages and think those craftspeople will have better lives when in fact the taxmen and middlemen in BOTH countries gobbles what little profit there is and in some cases that money is used to further brainwash people into converting to a different religion other than what they already have had for centuries before "help" arrived to "save" them.

And the socialists will argue that capitalism is the root of all evil, but when one actually looks at countries who have no starving masses, they are capitalist and free market enterprise countries. So, obviously, it is NOT capitalism that is the root of the third world starvation. It is communist, religious, military and dictatorial reign that creates starving masses. If capitalism was the root of all evil, WE would be the starving masses and THEY would be feeding us and buying our trinkets.

[JLives]

And the socialists will argue that capitalism is the root of all evil, but when one actually looks at countries who have no starving masses, they are capitalist and free market enterprise countries. So, obviously, it is NOT capitalism that is the root of the third world starvation. It is communist, religious, military and dictatorial reign that creates starving masses. If capitalism was the root of all evil, WE would be the starving masses and THEY would be feeding us and buying our trinkets.

So we are not exploiting natural resources and cheap labour in other countries to maximize profits and maintain our cushy lifestyles? How much do labourers make in Africa? Like it or not it IS a global system and we are using poor people to keep rich people. How do we tell people to pull themselves up by their bootstraps when they don't have any boots?

You wait, as their populations wise up and rise up we will be those people and we deserve it too.

[JLives]

We have people in this country who don't understand how to prevent pregnancy properly, I have heard so many say they thought breastfeeding would keep them protected for one thing. And how will they acquire this birth control? How much does it cost there and who provides it?

[grammafreddy]

And the socialists will argue that capitalism is the root of all evil, but when one actually looks at countries who have no starving masses, they are capitalist and free market enterprise countries. So, obviously, it is NOT capitalism that is the root of the third world starvation. It is communist, religious, military and dictatorial reign that creates starving masses. If capitalism was the root of all evil, WE would be the starving masses and THEY would be feeding us and buying our trinkets.

So we are not exploiting natural resources and cheap labour in other countries to maximize profits and maintain our cushy lifestyles? How much do labourers make in Africa? Like it or not it IS a global system and we are using poor people to keep rich people.

You wait, as their populations wise up and rise up we will be those people and we deserve it too.

Jenny .......... blame THEIR governments not ours or our capitalists. Our capitalists create jobs and pay the workers - their governments make the laws there. If the laws favoured their own people, our capitalists would follow those laws. If the wages are too low, their government could fix that if they chose to. If their governments choose to have poor, starving masses, that's what those people will be. All the capitalism in the world won't make it worse for those people if their governments don't want improvements for their own people.

Quit trying to make me feel guilty. It won't work. You enjoy a good lifestyle BECAUSE of capitalsim and a free market society. Those people would, too. Who writes YOUR paycheque? I'll bet it's a capitalist. Who reduces your earnings? I'll bet it is a government.

[JLives]

We (we being first world countries) own their governments, we fund their governments, we arm their governments. Their governments are a joke. They are not potential Canada's full of lazy people not trying to get more out of life.

Our capitalists pillage everything they can for their own self interests.That doesn't mean they are bad people, it's the system we have been rasied and taught how to function in. It's all we know.

[Corneliousrooster]

Africa doing fine before contact with Europeans? You're having a bit of a laugh aren't you? The mortality rate was far higher per percentage of births than it is today in Africa. The poor countries aren't poor because of exploitation, they are poor and starving because of local corruption and war. Show me any country in Africa that has a large starving population and you'll find local corruption and war. Why are there more people starving than before? Because most of them didnt' die in childbirth as they did previously.

The "west" has done more to help Africans than to hurt them. The ones hurting Africans are other africans primarily through tribal warfare and corruption. Africa is a very complex place, it's made up of many countries who all have unique issues. Libya has different issues from Ethiopia, Sudan has different issues from Liberia. To make a blanket statement that everything in Africa is the fault of the west is pure ignorance and shows no understanding of what is going on in any region of the continent.

Do western corporations turn a blind eye to political corruption in Africa? Yes they often do, so do the Chinese and the Indians who have business operations there. You don't seem to care or mention about the Chinese businesses in Africa that have been caught shooting workers who won't work http://www.africareview.com/News/Protes ... index.html since that doesn't fit with your narrative.

You seem to have the idea that if the west took away all aid (financial, medical and food) that corruption in Africa and tribal warfare would just disappear. That's absolute nonsense "noble savage" theory crap.

i suggest you familiarize yourself with the state of Africa pre 1800 before you start spouting your ignorant slant.

Nowhere did i suggest that African problems would disappear if aid got cut off - that is your assumption.

I suggest you take a look at ALL the different regions and then trace back to the source of the poverty and oppression and genocide. I am afraid you will find "Whitey" (capitalism and money)at the root of ALL of it.

My statements wouldn't need to be so general if europeans hadn't been so general in their pursuit to colonize any nation populated by "uncivilized savages" that had zero concept of the monetary system that the industrialized world had already adopted and implemented. What a great service they have done the African people - oh where would they be without the 1st world???

As harsh as it is, its kinda nice to see the "natives" in certain African nations taking back their land and removing the foreign occupiers. Seems brutal how they are doing it, but no more brutal than how it was obtained in the first place. Now that we have meddled for a couple hundred years we have definitly tipped the scale towards the corruption that benefitted 1st world interests the most, and the people of Africa will have to deal with that corruption on their own (or the 1st world is going to have to make a full time job of liberating people like they are doing in Libya right now).

And while we send the troops to liberate ONE COUNTRY at an expense that would house and feed ALL of canada's poor and needy, we tell ourselves that we are "helping"???? Helping who? Arms dealers?

[grammafreddy]

And if we have any sense, that's all we will continue to know in this country. If we don't, we will be those starving masses.

[Corneliousrooster]

And if we have any sense, that's all we will continue to know in this country. If we don't, we will be those starving masses.

Why do you think that? Canada is a far cry from an overpopulated desert. If capitalism stopped tomorrow Canada would do just fine after a short period of adjustment...... America? Thats another story.


Its funny because capitalism is a relatively new thing in the history of civilization - suddenly we can't possibly live without it????

Couple more tsunami's and earthquakes in 1st world countries and i think capitalism (as we know it) will begin to head the way of the dinosaur (or 1 rich country/corporation will have the whole world under their thumb). 1/2 a trillion dollar disasters can only happen so many times before the tap runs dry.