One thing IRAN has right in this world

[Mr. Personality]

Without a modicum of law and order there is anarchy, and true anarchy(will tough to actually happen) is something no-one should ever want.

I've always found it funny that anarchists tend to be vying for a dictatorship. They claim anarchy, but miss the fact they are still rooting for a single entity of sorts.

...okay...

[Loed]

Without a modicum of law and order there is anarchy, and true anarchy(will tough to actually happen) is something no-one should ever want.

I've always found it funny that anarchists tend to be vying for a dictatorship. They claim anarchy, but miss the fact they are still rooting for a single entity of sorts.

...okay...

Doors that way...

[goatboy]

You people place far too much importance on the value of a single life.

OK, so you don't care about your life or the lives of anybody that's important to you. I prefer to live in a country that does. I'm willing to live with the hardened criminal living out their lives behind bars. That's more of a punishment to them than killing them and doesn't bring us down to their level.

However, if you really believe in what you're saying, I think Iran and Saudi Arabia are great places to live and are looking for new immigrants.

[Loed]

You people place far too much importance on the value of a single life.

OK, so you don't care about your life or the lives of anybody that's important to you. I prefer to live in a country that does. It's a slippery slope you go down if you start killing people off because they have nothing left to offer society and are just a burden. Should we euthanize mentally disabled people, maybe put down ailing and infirm people. I'm willing to live with the hardened criminal living out their lives behind bars. That's more of a punishment to them than killing them and doesn't bring us down to their level.

However, if you really believe in what you're saying, I think Iran and Saudi Arabia are great places to live and are looking for new immigrants.

You're bringing stupid points up. It's more sad to think that YOU think mentally disabled people, ailing and infirm people bring nothing to this world. Have you ever worked with the mentally challenged? They are a pleasure to be around and add so much to ones life it's not even funny.

Now you will make the comparison that career criminals have this affect on their families as well, which they do, but there has to be a limit on the effect of what one person can do to another person. Living their lives out in the jail house society isn't fair to the families that are effected by the ones taken from them far too soon.

Fun to see so many closed-minded, ignorant people here still. Can't even supply options for different treatment of said criminals.

[Mr. Personality]

Without a modicum of law and order there is anarchy, and true anarchy(will tough to actually happen) is something no-one should ever want.

I've always found it funny that anarchists tend to be vying for a dictatorship. They claim anarchy, but miss the fact they are still rooting for a single entity of sorts.

...okay...

Doors that way...

I'm sure you meant "Door's"
I'm just wondering what your point was. You realize I'm not an Anarchist here, right?
My point was if you're so willing to kill someone who is convicted of a crime, why worry about murderers? It's just a human life.

[Loed]

Without a modicum of law and order there is anarchy, and true anarchy(will tough to actually happen) is something no-one should ever want.

I've always found it funny that anarchists tend to be vying for a dictatorship. They claim anarchy, but miss the fact they are still rooting for a single entity of sorts.

...okay...

Doors that way...

I'm sure you meant "Door's"
I'm just wondering what your point was. You realize I'm not an Anarchist here, right?
My point was if you're so willing to kill someone who is convicted of a crime, why worry about murderers? It's just a human life.

I never made any suggestion that you were an anarchist.
I'm not worried about murderers.

[goatboy]

You're bringing stupid points up. It's more sad to think that YOU think mentally disabled people, ailing and infirm people bring nothing to this world. Have you ever worked with the mentally challenged? They are a pleasure to be around and add so much to ones life it's not even funny.

Now you will make the comparison that career criminals have this affect on their families as well, which they do, but there has to be a limit on the effect of what one person can do to another person. Living their lives out in the jail house society isn't fair to the families that are effected by the ones taken from them far too soon.

Fun to see so many closed-minded, ignorant people here still. Can't even supply options for different treatment of said criminals.

You're calling me closed minded and ignorant, yet you're the one advocating that it's OK to kill someone if they were wrongly accused because it wouldn't happen that often and that we place far too much importance on a single life?

I would rather not take the chance of killing ONE innocent person, that would make us no better than the murderer. So sorry, your option of how to treat these criminals doesn't wash with me.

[Loed]

You're bringing stupid points up. It's more sad to think that YOU think mentally disabled people, ailing and infirm people bring nothing to this world. Have you ever worked with the mentally challenged? They are a pleasure to be around and add so much to ones life it's not even funny.

Now you will make the comparison that career criminals have this affect on their families as well, which they do, but there has to be a limit on the effect of what one person can do to another person. Living their lives out in the jail house society isn't fair to the families that are effected by the ones taken from them far too soon.

Fun to see so many closed-minded, ignorant people here still. Can't even supply options for different treatment of said criminals.

You're calling me closed minded and ignorant, yet you're the one advocating that it's OK to kill someone if they were wrongly accused because it wouldn't happen that often and that we place far too much importance on a single life?

I do apologize if you think I meant that the mentally disabled, ailing and infirm bring nothing to this world, that's not what I meant.

I would rather not take the chance of killing ONE innocent person, that would make us no better than the murderer. So sorry, your option of how to treat these criminals doesn't wash with me.

If you didn't mean that about those people you shouldn't have made the comparison as such, that was ignorant. Edit your post and I will edit my quote if you do.

That's fine, that is your opinion and like I have been saying you are all entitled to it. I'm not arguing, I'm discussing.

Now, if we can get past that little ignorant regression in thought, lets pass around ideas about what could be done differently when a member of our Canadian society becomes nearly worthless and will never contribute anything to society.

[WhatThe]

You people place far too much importance on the value of a single life.

our whole governance system is predicated on that philosophy. Particularily in criminal law where the mantra is "it's better to let ten guilty men go free than one innocent man go to prison". That is also why the burden of proof is So high "beyond a resonable doubt".

waste as little money as possible

that's what I'm trying to get across, death penalty cases cost 2-6 times more than life imprisoment cases. That is the US national average. So that's a waste of money.

I don't have all the answers you're looking for. What im trying to establish is that death penalties cost more, are innefectual as deterrents, makes us operate at the same level as those we are trying to punish, and is not an answer that anyone should consider.

[Loed]

You people place far too much importance on the value of a single life.

our whole governance system is predicated on that philosophy. Particularily in criminal law where the mantra is "it's better to let ten guilty men go free than one innocent man go to prison". That is also why the burden of proof is So high "beyond a resonable doubt".

waste as little money as possible

that's what I'm trying to get across, death penalty cases cost 2-6 times more than life imprisoment cases. That is the US national average. So that's a waste of money.

I don't have all the answers you're looking for. What im trying to establish is that death penalties cost more, are innefectual as deterrents, makes us operate at the same level as those we are trying to punish, and is not an answer that anyone should consider.

We already established everything you are "trying to establish", it doesn't need to be repeated. If you don't have any ideas or alternate solutions then this conversation is over.

Humans are already beasts, the killing of each other is natural. Everything is ineffectual as a deterrent. Something needs to be done instead of housing these career criminals for the rest of their lives.

[goatboy]

You people place far too much importance on the value of a single life.

our whole governance system is predicated on that philosophy. Particularily in criminal law where the mantra is "it's better to let ten guilty men go free than one innocent man go to prison". That is also why the burden of proof is So high "beyond a resonable doubt".

waste as little money as possible

that's what I'm trying to get across, death penalty cases cost 2-6 times more than life imprisoment cases. That is the US national average. So that's a waste of money.

I don't have all the answers you're looking for. What im trying to establish is that death penalties cost more, are innefectual as deterrents, makes us operate at the same level as those we are trying to punish, and is not an answer that anyone should consider.

We already established everything you are "trying to establish", it doesn't need to be repeated. If you don't have any ideas or alternate solutions then this conversation is over.

Humans are already beasts, the killing of each other is natural. Everything is ineffectual as a deterrent. Something needs to be done instead of housing these career criminals for the rest of their lives.

We could send them to Iran.

[Oxl3y]

You people place far too much importance on the value of a single life.

our whole governance system is predicated on that philosophy. Particularily in criminal law where the mantra is "it's better to let ten guilty men go free than one innocent man go to prison". That is also why the burden of proof is So high "beyond a resonable doubt".

waste as little money as possible

that's what I'm trying to get across, death penalty cases cost 2-6 times more than life imprisoment cases. That is the US national average. So that's a waste of money.

I don't have all the answers you're looking for. What im trying to establish is that death penalties cost more, are innefectual as deterrents, makes us operate at the same level as those we are trying to punish, and is not an answer that anyone should consider.

We already established everything you are "trying to establish", it doesn't need to be repeated. If you don't have any ideas or alternate solutions then this conversation is over.

Humans are already beasts, the killing of each other is natural. Everything is ineffectual as a deterrent. Something needs to be done instead of housing these career criminals for the rest of their lives.

We could send them to Iran.

I think we have a winner! Maybe not an established country but maybe some island somewhere like a new age Australia! All maximum security warranted criminals get shipped out nary to return.

[Loed]

We could send them to Iran.

While I appreciate humoring me, now you're just being a hypocrite. ;)

Remember, your against the death penalty, and fearing wrongful accusations. This would just compound your problem.

I would honestly support an island type solution though heheh. Allow them supplies for you liberal types, but lock them there, small military presence or whatever to KEEP them there and allow them to develop their own society.

[Mr. Personality]

We could send them to Iran.

While I appreciate humoring me, now you're just being a hypocrite. ;)

Remember, your against the death penalty, and fearing wrongful accusations. This would just compound your problem.

I would honestly support an island type solution though heheh. Allow them supplies for you liberal types, but lock them there, small military presence or whatever to KEEP them there and allow them to develop their own society.

To me that sounds like a solution for people who want the death penalty.
Send them all to an island somewhere and let them kill each other off. Anyone so in favour of killing people could never be a useful member of society. Our society is based on not killing one another.

[kina]

I'm against the death penalty. Society is not perfect and many problems can come into play if the the death penalty was put in place. There is a reason it was eradicated in the first place. Things such as wrongful convictions, setups, mistakes, bought-out judges, etc., can all lead to the murder of innocent lives. And even if in some concocted fantasy where all those convicted are actually guilty, how does one murder make up for another? Frankly, the person who kills the convicted man is just as much guilty of murder as he is.
I don't believe the convicted murderers should be released as quickly as they usually are these days because that is completely useless, but killing them is far from the answer, and their crimes are no excuse.

Especially when it comes to children. One poster did say that they believed that at 14 or 15 years old kids know right from wrong. Yes, that is somewhat true, but it certainly doesn't mean that they are a complete individual at that age and that they cannot be rehabilitated. That only happens when they get out of their teens, not when they're just starting to reach puberty.

The problem is that the process of rehabilitation in jails is flawed. The criminal actually has the choice of whether they want to get better or not. Everybody knows that jail is more like a "Criminal University": they become smarter, meaner, and more undetectable when they get out. That's where the problem lies.

Yes, the justice system here is very flawed. Just take yesterday's news for example:
"Drug-dealing cop needs therapy, not jail: psychologist"
http://www.ctvbc.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20110713/bc_peter_hodson_sentencing_110713/20110713/?hub=BritishColumbiaHome

I cannot believe that this "psychiatrist" Dr. Elterman could even make such a claim. This is a grown man that had betrayed the trust that was given to him when he entered the policing profession. It's not a crazy teen with his head all over the place. As far as I'm concerned, this cop should get a harsher sentence because he betrayed the public's trust in him. He is supposed to provide a feeling of security, not fear.

I just wonder if this "psychiatrist" is as generous in his claims when the general public is concerned.