Half of Canadians cheat on taxes

[Captain Awesome]

Add up all the people at the Canadian federal, provincial, territorial, (even municipal and business) levels feeding off the taxpayer and compare it on a per capita basis to any country in Europe.

Yup, and I'm still convinced that in Europe the level of bureaucracy is way higher (at least in Germany where I lived and worked for few years). And taxes are much higher. All of them. You had such a problem with 10% HST, well VAT in Germany is 19% on anything you buy.

So, once again Nabsy, the whole "It's 20% off your income and nothing else" is a pure dream. If you really want you can compare Tax Freedom days, I'm sure you can find them online...

[NAB]

Add up all the people at the Canadian federal, provincial, territorial, (even municipal and business) levels feeding off the taxpayer and compare it on a per capita basis to any country in Europe.

Yup, and I'm still convinced that in Europe the level of bureaucracy is way higher (at least in Germany where I lived and worked for few years). And taxes are much higher. All of them. You had such a problem with 10% HST, well VAT in Germany is 19% on anything you buy.

So, once again Nabsy, the whole "It's 20% off your income and nothing else" is a pure dream. If you really want you can compare Tax Freedom days, I'm sure you can find them online...

You find them, (and make sure you include ALL taxes and fees associated with being a "normal" lifelong citizen). I know better than to get involved with that 10% HST lie and BS any more/; Compare TOTAL taxes and fees at all levels, not just one of them, and against various income levels.

Edit to add: BTW, if you lived in Germany "for a few years", you would know that Germans have one of the highest levels of discretionary income in the western world. If your personal experience is otherwise, I would like to know why. Was your income and deductions based on a Canadian employer, or on a German employer? Or perhaps you weren't even employed and owned a home or property or business there?

Edit to add: And BTW, don't you think it is rather ridiculous to make claims about general tax levels in "Europe", when your only experience is a few years in Germany? What were you when you were there, a military brat? Canadian or American?

Nab

[Captain Awesome]

You find them, (and make sure you include ALL taxes and fees associated with being a "normal" lifelong citizen).

Why is it you always come up with inane ideas and get others to debunk them for ya? Jesus, do some of your own legwork once in a while, gramps.

Fine, here you go:

Norway 56.7%
Sweden 55%
France 53.6%
Germany 51.7%
Slovenia 48.3%
Poland 48.0%
Czech Republic 44.1%
Belgium 43.8%
Croatia 43.7%
Canada 42.6%
United States 26.9%

So, there. Almost every single country in Europe (except for UK at 40% and couple others) has higher taxation than Canada. Man, I get tired of being right all the time.

And BTW, don't you think it is rather ridiculous to make claims about general tax levels in "Europe"

Actually, no it's not. Most countries in Europe operate in a similar way when it comes to social policies, institutions, etc. So, if you know how things are in one country, you can make good guesstimates about others. And the table above shows that once again, my guess was completely justified.

[Glacier]

Do those numbers include corporate tax rates?

[Captain Awesome]

Do those numbers include corporate tax rates?

No, I believe tax freedom day deal strictly with an average consumer, not corporations.

[NAB]

You find them, (and make sure you include ALL taxes and fees associated with being a "normal" lifelong citizen).

Why is it you always come up with inane ideas and get others to debunk them for ya? Jesus, do some of your own legwork once in a while, gramps.

Fine, here you go:

Norway 56.7%
Sweden 55%
France 53.6%
Germany 51.7%
Slovenia 48.3%
Poland 48.0%
Czech Republic 44.1%
Belgium 43.8%
Croatia 43.7%
Canada 42.6%
United States 26.9%

So, there. Almost every single country in Europe (except for UK at 40% and couple others) has higher taxation than Canada. Man, I get tired of being right all the time.

And BTW, don't you think it is rather ridiculous to make claims about general tax levels in "Europe"

Actually, no it's not. Most countries in Europe operate in a similar way when it comes to social policies, institutions, etc. So, if you know how things are in one country, you can make good guesstimates about others. And the table above shows that once again, my guess was completely justified.

LOL. You could at least have provided some detail as to what those numbers represent, or perhaps a link? As for me doing my own legwork, I have done it many times in a variety of scenarios (and not ignored population and geography/size differences and types of primary industry in the bigger picture), and as I suggested included ALL taxes and fees (and deductions, and government provided services that those in other jurisdictions might have to pay from after tax funds) that a lifelong citizen (or a business) encounters. But you spin it as you wish, because the table above does not show that your GUESS was right. But I'm not going to correct you, since you might learn better by doing full and accurate research yourself - yungun ;-)

It is also important to compare how corporations are taxed in those countries as to how government gets its revenues and distributes wealth and funds services and public infrastucture, and still not overlook that here we have a thing called provinces with taxing and fee charging authority that those countries do not. Capture it all for your comparisons, including relative incomes, or don't waste everyone's time, including mine.

Nab

[Captain Awesome]

You could at least have provided some detail as to what those numbers represent, or perhaps a link?

It represents tax burden on an average tax payer. Tax freedom day is a universal way of measuring such burden. And yes, it includes all taxes, fees, pretzel deductions, and "old people can never admit they're wrong" taxes. And yes, it shows that people in Europe pay more in taxes - completely against your fantasies. Common knowledge to some, has to be proven to others.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_Freedo ... _the_world

[NAB]

You could at least have provided some detail as to what those numbers represent, or perhaps a link?

It represents tax burden on an average tax payer. Tax freedom day is a universal way of measuring such burden. And yes, it includes all taxes, fees, pretzel deductions, and "old people can never admit they're wrong" taxes. And yes, it shows that people in Europe pay more in taxes - completely against your fantasies. Common knowledge to some, has to be proven to others.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_Freedo ... _the_world

LOL. Try agin yungun. From your own link...

Due to the different ways that nations collect and categorize public finance data, however, Tax Freedom Days are not comparable from one country to another.

Gramps

[Captain Awesome]

Gramps

Come on, gramps, just admit you're wrong and that people in Europe pay more in taxes than people in Canada (common knowledge to most people). Here we have numbers calculated by PricewaterhouseCoopers, Fraser Institute, Bund der Steuerzahler, Swedish Taxpayers' Association, and other fine organizations. And I have my own personal experience of paying taxes in Germany.

And what do you have have, except for denial of everything that doesn't suit your fantasies, Nabsy?

[NAB]

Gramps

Come on, gramps, just admit you're wrong and that people in Europe pay more in taxes than people in Canada (common knowledge to most people). Here we have numbers calculated by PricewaterhouseCoopers, Fraser Institute, Bund der Steuerzahler, Swedish Taxpayers' Association, and other fine organizations. And I have my own personal experience of paying taxes in Germany.

And what do you have have, except for denial of everything that doesn't suit your fantasies, Nabsy?

I think there is only one person in this conversation enjoying his fantasies Captain, and it certainly ain't me LOL. But even if your original statement were true (which it is in SOME cases but not as a generalization), it still doesn't paint the whole picture. But I'll leave you alone now to figure it out for yourself. (Hint. It's sorta like the ridiculous stand alone argument that the BC HST is better or worse than GST/PST).

Besides, the topic is about half of Canadians cheating on their taxes. The level of taxes in Europe (or any place else for that matter) has little if anything to do with it. It is the relative level of total taxes HERE to other domestic economic factors, tax policy, and demographics that influences that cheating. We get to play the hand we are dealt, just like people in any other country have to play the one they are dealt..... each at their own table.

see ya.

Nab

[cutter7]

A new poll commissioned by the taxman suggests half of Canadians are ready to cheat with under-the-table cash payments.

My neighbor is King Cash.

New roof - Cash
New gutters - Cash
New Insulation - Cash
Small addition - Cash
Anything he can - he pays cash.


Then he sits wonders around telling the rest of the neighbours how great it is not having to pay any HST on anything he doesn't have to because he already pays enough for people that don't pay their share.

He says that when people ask him how he wants to be paid for the work he does he says cash or cheque. He says five years ago that only 10% of his customers paid cash. Now it's 50%.

So the consumer that wants to avoid taxes is paying cash and the guy performing the service wants the same.

Can't say that I blame either one.

I always pay cash as well.. wether or not the person I pay declares it is their business.