Guilty: Jury finds Shafia family guilty of 1st degree murder

[grammafreddy]

When the Roma "gypsies" were (and still are) perceived as being a problem group internationally, Canada immigration refused entry to them. Anyone applying for entry into Canada from that group was denied no matter which country they were coming from.

The Roma are nowhere near as barbaric in their customs as these ones in this story are. Family means everything to them. However, prejudice against them has been very strong for centuries and they have been persecuted for their old ways, which creates new challenges to them all the time - they find it hard to get jobs because of who they are and the hatred in their history. This has led to their young folks turning to drugs and crime to survive in an unfriendly world.

If we can deny them, we can deny others, IMO.

[normaM]

When the Roma "gypsies" were (and still are) perceived as being a problem group internationally, Canada immigration refused entry to them. Anyone applying for entry into Canada from that group was denied no matter which country they were coming from.

The Roma are nowhere near as barbaric in their customs as these ones in this story are. Family means everything to them. However, prejudice against them has been very strong for centuries and they have been persecuted for their old ways, which creates new challenges to them all the time - they find it hard to get jobs because of who they are and the hatred in their history. This has led to their young folks turning to drugs and crime to survive in an unfriendly world.

If we can deny them, we can deny others, IMO.

I read an article that said the reason they were being turned away is that many were not actually Romas.

[grammafreddy]

When the Roma "gypsies" were (and still are) perceived as being a problem group internationally, Canada immigration refused entry to them. Anyone applying for entry into Canada from that group was denied no matter which country they were coming from.

The Roma are nowhere near as barbaric in their customs as these ones in this story are. Family means everything to them. However, prejudice against them has been very strong for centuries and they have been persecuted for their old ways, which creates new challenges to them all the time - they find it hard to get jobs because of who they are and the hatred in their history. This has led to their young folks turning to drugs and crime to survive in an unfriendly world.

If we can deny them, we can deny others, IMO.

I read an article that said the reason they were being turned away is that many were not actually Romas.

Do you remember where you saw that? I'd be interested in reading it. Maybe a link??? Thanks!

[normaM]

hmm, I think the G & M, let me go look see
I will keep looking, the article caught my eye because I find the Romas so interesting, it had something to do with saying they were coming for economic reasons.

[Captain Awesome]

I read an article that said the reason they were being turned away is that many were not actually Romas.

I'll take religious Muslims over thieving Gypsies any day.

[grammafreddy]

I read an article that said the reason they were being turned away is that many were not actually Romas.

I'll take religious Muslims over thieving Gypsies any day.

Not going there ... I only mentioned them because I know Canadian Immigration had a ban on them and that was pertinent to this thread topic and discussion. If they can ban one, it stands to reason they can ban another. Right?

We could do a thread on the Roma if you like :sunshine:

[Captain Awesome]

If they can ban one, it stands to reason they can ban another. Right?

I guess with enough media hype about thousands of honor killings we can get to the stage where Muslim people will be viewed equally undesirable as gypsies...

[grammafreddy]

If they can ban one, it stands to reason they can ban another. Right?

I guess with enough media hype about thousands of honor killings we can get to the stage where Muslim people will be viewed equally undesirable as gypsies...

Right, I guess. (and totally ignoring your taunt about gypsies)

How many actual honour killings and other barbaric customs against women do you think there are (without the media hype, of course)?

Is this one a lone event? No others? How many should make a ban on them a valid argument? How many people have to die before there's too many?

[grammafreddy]

And going off in a different direction on this topic now ...

The girls repeatedly begged Family Services to remove them from the home and went to the police on more than one occasion.

Why did these agencies do nothing?

Was it because the family was of that religion/tradition and they feared the Human Rights Tribunal trump card would be played if they got involved? Did they just not want to get involved with all the legal hassle that it would entail and tie up their workers and resources to fight it if they had acted and removed the women from harm?

I think it is so.

[oneh2obabe]

Family Services didn't get involved because the girl(s) kept recanting their stories or would be evasive when asked to repeat the circumstances second time. Police won't lay charges if the story keeps changing and Family Services need proof of abuse before removal from the parental home.

[grammafreddy]

Family Services didn't get involved because the girl(s) kept recanting their stories or would be evasive when asked to repeat the circumstances second time. Police won't lay charges if the story keeps changing and Family Services need proof of abuse before removal from the parental home.

Well, they have that proof now, don't they? What will they do next time one of these women in the same circumstances comes to them for help?

Actually, I don't think many women do go to outsiders for help. I think they just endure it.

[Captain Awesome]

How many people have to die before there's too many?

Probably enough to establish a pattern. But the numbers aren't really there.

[flamingfingers]

The family was rich. They did provide material goods for the girls. Agencies felt that because they did not see physical evidence of abuse (and recall, the girls only recanted their stories when interviewed with their parents) there was no 'real' reason for them to be removed. They were young girls after all. Unsophisticated and in fear of their father, mother and society failed them. Pity..

[ifwisheswerehorses]

Since 2002, 13 honour killings have been reported.

http://drdawgsblawg.ca/2011/01/tidal-wa ... -act.shtml
--------------------------------------------------------------

- Aqsa Parvez, 16, strangled to death in Toronto in 2007 for refusing to wear the hijab. Father Muhammad Parvez and brother Waqas Parvez sentenced to life in prison

- Hasibullah Sadiqi, sentenced to life in prison for shooting his sister and her fiance in Edmonton on Sept. 19, 2006. He claimed they had brought dishonour on his family.

-Rajinder Singh Atwal stabbed his 17-year-old daughter Amandeep to death in 2003 for insisting on living with her boyfriend. Atwal found guilty of second-degree murder in 2005 and sentenced to life in prison.

-Adi Abdul Humaid stabbed his wife, Aysar Abbas, 23 times in the neck and once in the heart on a lonely stretch of B.C. road on Oct. 14, 1999. He said he thought she was sleeping with her business associate. Sentenced to life in prison.

-In June 2007 in Toronto’s Scarborough area, Anitha Selvanayagam, 16, and her boyfriend were walking together when they were run over and seriously injured by a van driven by her father. Prosecutors called it an “attempted honour killing” by Sri Lankan immigrant Selvanayagam Selladurai who was angry that his daughter had dated a boy of a lower caste. He pleaded guilty to three counts of aggravated assault. Selladurai also ran down his son-in-law in the attack.

-In December 2007 in Mississauga, Ont., Aqsa Parvez was strangled to death by her father, Muhammad Parvez, and brother Waqas Parvez, 26, in the family home. The men pleaded guilty to second-degree murder and were sentenced to life in prison with no chance of parole for 18 years. Aqsa rebelled against strict cultural and religious rules imposed by her Pakistan-born Muslim father.

-It was March 1991 when Daljit Singh Dulay appeared in the parking lot of a Marlborough strip mall, armed with an assault rifle and on the hunt for his sister, Kulvinder.
The 20-year-old woman had fled Vancouver for Calgary, to elope with her boyfriend Gary Dulay — a man Kulvinder’s family so disapproved of, they deemed her a disgrace and dishonour to their very name.
Dulay spotted the couple in the parking lot outside the video store owned by Sharma, a friend who’d offered them work as they re-established themselves in Calgary.
Tracked down by a private investigator paid by the irate brother, Kulvinder and Gary were sitting in a car when the killer opened fire, riddling the vehicle and passengers with 30 bullets.
It was then Sharma was gunned down, too, as the store owner ran to save a pregnant woman who was in the line of fire.

-Amandeep Kaur
On January 1, 2009, 48 year old Kamikar Singh Dhillon stabbed his step-daughter Amandeep Kaur, 22, to death. His justification was that he feared his daughter-in-law would leave his son for another man with whom she was allegedly having an affair. When the police investigated, they could find no evidence of said affair. According to the papers, when Kaur arrived in Canada, Dhillon attempted to exploit her. After she got her permanent residence, she started asserting herself and Dhillon's response was to kill her and spread lies about an affair.

[oneh2obabe]

Download the Star's in-depth series on the Shafia trial in book form.
Read all the details of the Kingston Canal murder trial that gripped the country, featuring reporting by Rosie DiManno and Andrew Chung.
http://media.thestar.topscms.com/acroba ... f442e3.pdf

Special article
http://www.thestar.com/special/article/1122764