Toronto bans plastic bags

[masen]

Toronto's ban on plastic bags is a good start. Paper bags can be reused easier, hold more and degrade easier when they go into our lakes and rivers and oceans. In past times, the cardboard boxes the food came in were re-used for putting the groceries into. This worked out well as the groceries didn't fall out-at least rarely. Plastic bags are notoriously bad for this.

[simnut]

"According to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, it takes more than four times the energy to manufacture paper bags as it does to make plastic ones; it takes 91% less energy to recycle a pound of of plastic than it takes to recycle a pound of paper; paper bags generate 70% more air and 50 times more water pollutants than plastic bags; and plastic grocery bags generate 80% less solid waste than paper bags (2000 plastic bags weight 30 pounds, while 2000 paper bags weigh 280 pounds)."

Now...tell me if their decision is smart.............. :sillygrin:

[j watson]

Exactly!! The truth is that all re-cycling costs far outweigh the benefits provided. But hey, forget the costs, what about poor old mother earth, right?. Thumbs down on Toronto for the 'hey, look how green we are' move.

[Corneliousrooster]

"According to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, it takes more than four times the energy to manufacture paper bags as it does to make plastic ones

Really? I guess this is only taking into account the actual manufacturing and not the energy involved to get the raw material to start with ....... :spinball:

[simnut]

Really? I guess this is only taking into account the actual manufacturing and not the energy involved to get the raw material to start with ....... :spinball:

Are you sure? Both the paper bags and the plastic bags are made using by-products of another manufacturing process. Paper from wood chips created by saw mills and plastic from the oil refinement process. It takes approximately three tons of wood chips to make one ton of pulp....and a LOT of "nasty" chemicals to get paper. Plastic bags basically come from a process where only heat is involved. Both processes are "required" right now, by today's society.

From: http://www.treehugger.com/culture/paper ... page5.html

From the same analysis, we learn that plastic also has lower energy requirements -- these numbers are expressed in millions of British thermal units (Btus) per 10,000 bags, again at 1.5 plastic bags for every one paper bag. Plastic bags require 9.7 million Btus, vs. 16.3 for paper bags at zero percent recycling; even at 100% recycling rates, plastic bags still require less -- 7.0 to paper's 9.1. What does that mean to me and you? Plastic bags just take less energy to create, which is significant because so much of our energy comes from dirty sources like coal and petroleum.

But, like this website says.......reusable...washable....canvas bags are the best alternative!

[Corneliousrooster]

You can probably see a tree from where you stand right now (pretty easy on the grand scheme of things to attain one, with minimal use of energy ....... which would/could lead to the end product being a paperbag. You can't say the same for oil (far more energy and resources are needed to extract oil which would/could lead to the end product being a plastic bag).

We made recycled paper in elementary school 30 years ago ...... its not that hard......

[simnut]

You can probably see a tree from where you stand right now (pretty easy on the grand scheme of things to attain one, with minimal use of energy ....... which would/could lead to the end product being a paperbag. You can't say the same for oil (far more energy and resources are needed to extract oil which would/could lead to the end product being a plastic bag).

We made recycled paper in elementary school 30 years ago ...... its not that hard......

Well then, you haven't seen logging practices here in BC.....thousands of truckloads being moved on our highways, roads being carved into pristine forest areas....mega machines in the forest doing the logging...even chainsaws.....ALL equipment using fossil fuel to operate. Have you ever stood beside a pulp mill....sure doesn't look as easy as when you "recycled" paper in elementary school does it? :D Oh, how much weight would your "recycled" paper hold?

I agree...both ways use up considerable energy....but I also think that it is easier for the world to use LESS paper (using computers, email, etc) than we can fossil fuels (although, i would like to see less of that too).

I still think, that Toronto would have been much better off forcing the use of "canvas" bags as opposed to choosing between paper or plastic.

[j watson]

What about hemp?

[Corneliousrooster]

Well then, you haven't seen logging practices here in BC.....thousands of truckloads being moved on our highways, roads being carved into pristine forest areas....mega machines in the forest doing the logging...even chainsaws.....ALL equipment using fossil fuel to operate.

I agree - all I was trying to point out (that was being left out of the discussion) was the amount of energy used to get the initial source - which hands down, would be more to extract oil.

I still think, that Toronto would have been much better off forcing the use of "canvas" bags as opposed to choosing between paper or plastic.

I agree.

What about hemp?

Probably the best alternative possible.

[hobbyguy]

In many ways all "disposable" shopping bags are just a wasteful convenience. Lots and lots of ways around them.