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Two Former Canadian Indian Chiefs Trash Canada

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Two Former Canadian Indian Chiefs Trash Canada

Postby Treblehook » Oct 16th, 2012, 12:04 pm

The comments of Terry Nelson and Dennis Pashe to media in Iran are disgusting. Dennis Pashe states that the Government of Canada is involved in a process designed to exterminate aboriginal peoples in Canada and [if I read it right] also claims that there are 600 missing aboriginal women who are a part of that government conspiracy. Neither Nelson nor Pashe have done anything during their life times that would qualify them as spokespersons for the aboriginal peoples of Canada. Nelson is a man who couldn't even manage the day to day financial matters for his reserve according to news reports that state that a third party manager was used by the indebted reserve. And this was a reserve that was receiving millions annually and that had received an 80 million dollar compensation package around 2010, for a land settlement. Dennis Pashe's public record as the Chief of the Dakota Tipi Band doesn't appear to be any more impressive than Nelson's as he was somewhat unceremoniously removed from office as well. That reserve too was under third party financial management if the media reports are correct. Anyway, my motive for making these remarks here is amazement that the current local and national aboriginal leadership seems to be conspicuously silent on the abhorrant statements being made abroad by these to losers. It would seem to me that this ought to be the time for them to stand up and be heard as Canadians and as leaders of their communities.
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Re: Two Former Canadian Indian Chiefs Trash Canada

Postby Gilchy » Oct 16th, 2012, 4:19 pm

source?
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Re: Two Former Canadian Indian Chiefs Trash Canada

Postby Treblehook » Oct 16th, 2012, 4:48 pm

Various news sources have been covering the activities of these two chiefs.. specifically in relation to their trip to Iran and their trashing of Canada to the media in Iran. There is also plenty of news coverage available that has reported on the activities of these two chiefs over the past few years and the fact that they were both removed from office, etc, etc. All you need to do is query these folks on the internet and choose a media source that you have some confidence in. I thought my comments contained sufficient indicators that I was relying on media reports!!!! Aside from that, I lived in Manitoba for quite a few years and am pretty familiar with the goings on around the Dakota Tipi Band near Portage la Prairie, having had personal interaction with quite a few of the members of that band and as a matter of fact, some members of the Pashe family from Dakota Tipi. I am not surprised that Chief Pashe was eventually ousted from office there, but would not have imagined that either of these men would have opted to take the current path they have chosen. It makes one wonder as to their intellectual prowess for sure.
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Re: Two Former Canadian Indian Chiefs Trash Canada

Postby zzontar » Oct 16th, 2012, 5:30 pm

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/ ... itoba.html


A former Manitoban First Nations leader has raised the ire of Canadian officials with his appearance on Iranian television comparing aboriginal reserves to concentration camps.

Terry Nelson, former chief of Manitoba's Roseau River Anishinabe, made the comments during an interview on Sunday with Iranian Press TV in Tehran.

"The reservations were originally more or less concentration camps," Nelson said in the interview.

Nelson has been leading a delegation of First Nations trying to create closer ties with Iran. In March, the group visited the Iranian Embassy in Ottawa.

More recently Nelson was in Iran, where during the TV interview he said widespread discrimination against aboriginal people in Canada has escalated since Prime Minister Stephen Harper took office in 2006.

He also said there are more chances for First Nations youth to be incarcerated than to graduate from high school.

'We are going to go where we need to go to be able to have the voice of the First Nations heard.'—Terry Nelson

"There's no real economic development on reserves, so the reservations mostly have between 60 and 95 per cent unemployment," he said.

"This is the root cause of the artificial poverty that's on reserves. It is economic sanctions."

The Iranian television network also interviewed Dennis Pashe, a former chief of the Dakota Tipi First Nation in Manitoba.

A spokesman for John Duncan, Canada's aboriginal affairs minister, told CBC News the federal government is "disappointed that Mr. Nelson has allowed himself to be used as a pawn by the Iranian regime in yet another PR stunt to distract from their own record.

"Since 2006, our government has taken concrete steps to create the conditions for healthier, more self-sufficient First Nation communities, including legislation to protect the rights of women on reserve and improve financial transparency," Jason MacDonald said in an email.
'Canada will not take lessons from Iran'

MacDonald also said Ottawa has provided "billions in investments to ensure safe drinking water, improved K-12 education, and greater opportunities for aboriginal participation in the economy.

"We continue to work with First Nations to improve the opportunities for them to achieve the prosperity they seek and that Canada needs," he said.

"Canada will not take lessons from Iran, with its record of brutal human rights abuses and terrorism."

Closer to home, the Manitoba government said the province is not interested in weighing in on Nelson's comments.

The grand chief of the Assembly of Manitoba Chiefs, Derek Nepinak, said while Nelson is entitled to his opinion, he doesn't share that view.

While there are real issues that need to be addressed on reserves, Nelson's methods might do more harm than good, Nepinak said.

"I don't think it necessarily represents the views or perspectives of the bulk of indigenous people that live here. I think we live here peacefully within western Canadian society, and I think some of the messaging is not doing any good," he said.

Nelson said aboriginal Canadians must follow the lead of native Americans to highlight their human-rights concerns and make friends outside of North America, which is why he and Pashe came to Iran.

"The Iranian people have been dehumanized and essentially demonized in the Western press, and a lot of people have told us that we shouldn't come here; that our lives would be in danger," Nelson told the TV network.

"We are going to go where we need to go to be able to have the voice of the First Nations heard."
They say you can't believe everything they say.
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Re: Two Former Canadian Indian Chiefs Trash Canada

Postby SurplusElect » Oct 16th, 2012, 6:46 pm

The history and present state concerning how we treat/ed Natives is embarrassing. The UN and other worldly organizations have pointed out quite a few times about how Natives are treated/disadvantaged in Canada even today, it's no lie. Look at our prison population demographics

This is what happens when Canada makes a international statement about Iran. They get to drag our nose in it.

It's hard to touch maple syrup swilling carebears, but we have weak points.

This is where the Canadian cheerleader steps out in-front of the Iranian cheer team and says "Bring it".
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Re: Two Former Canadian Indian Chiefs Trash Canada

Postby Treblehook » Oct 16th, 2012, 9:59 pm

The Government of Canada has most certainly made mistakes over the decades/generations in the way it has dealt with our Aboriginal peoples. There are few [if any] Canadians of any stripe who would disagree with that statement. That having been said however, there are many, many issues and problems within the aboriginal population itself that have stiffled their own peoples progress. We have many highly visible examples of that across the country. At the same time, there are some very shining examples of aboriginal peoples being highly successful and bands that are productive and modern. There are very good examples here in the southern interior of BC. Very often, the right things don't get done until the right things get said .. until the issues and contributing factors are really laid out and discussed. Unfortunately, much of the truth about the circumstances that are holding back aboriginal peoples in Canada does not get discussed because we are in a time where political correctness trumps all other considerations; aboriginal peoples live in atrocious housing in some areas where there seems to be no logical reason for this dreadful circumstance other than the mismanagement and outright theft/diversion of millions of dollars provided annually. Those aboriginal people who suffer under successive band administrations that are corrupt or otherwise ill equipped to manage 50 or 100 million dollar budgets, have little or no chance or improving their way of life or that of their children. To simply say that Canada or non-aboriginal peoples have treated aboriginal peoples badly, discriminated against them or otherwise disadvantaged them is to oversimplify the problem. At the same time, those who repeat that rhetoric reinforce the premise that all aboriginal problems were/are the fault of the "white man", which does nothing to create an atmosphere where our aboriginal peoples are likely to grab and pull up their own bootstraps. Those bands who have been most successful have [themselves] taken the bull by the horns. Chief Clarence Louie and the Osoyoos Indian Band prove the point.
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Re: Two Former Canadian Indian Chiefs Trash Canada

Postby SurplusElect » Oct 17th, 2012, 10:10 am

We took a culture that survived and thrived for 10,000 years without our help or culture and forced them into our society of greed, land ownership economics and substances so we could get at the resources.

"Pull up their bootstraps"?

Natives are where they are because of us, and if they are having difficulty adapting to our culture - no kidding. It's our responsibility to accommodate them and we have not done a excellent job over the years as these Chiefs pointed out.
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Re: Two Former Canadian Indian Chiefs Trash Canada

Postby underscore » Oct 17th, 2012, 1:08 pm

I read the news article...what exactly does he want?
cliffy1 wrote:Welcome to the asylum.
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Re: Two Former Canadian Indian Chiefs Trash Canada

Postby zzontar » Oct 17th, 2012, 7:10 pm

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/dailybre ... 31102.html

A visit to Iran by two former First Nations chiefs from Manitoba, where they slammed Canada's treatment of aboriginals, has created the predictable backlash at home.
Terry Nelson and Dennis Pashe made the rounds in Tehran, culminating in a lengthy interview on the Iranian television outlet Press TV.
Nelson, who Press TV described as "the top Chief of Canada Aboriginals," told the audience he and Pashe were pressured not to make the trip.
"But we were pretty clear that the dehumanization, the demonization of the Iranian people has been one of the facts of Western media and we understand that because we too have also met with the crusader," he said, according to an article on the Press TV web site.
Terry Nelson, a former Manitoba First Nations leader, appeared on an Iranian TV network, accusing Canada of mistreating its aboriginal peoples.
The trip is notable because of the deep diplomatic rift between Canada and Iran mainly over the Islamic state's reported attempts to develop nuclear weapons.
Nelson, who according to the Winnipeg Free Press also travelled to Iraq in 1990 to meet Saddam Hussein, attacked Canada's record on First Nations; high unemployment, decrepit reserve housing and the disappearance and murder of some 600 aboriginal women in recent years. He reportedly referred to reserves as "concentration camps."
Nelson told the Free Press that he was only telling the truth about conditions aboriginals live under in Canada.
But the Free Press said that in an email to other chiefs on the weekend, Nelson also revealed he was in Iran to discuss the presence of First Nations astride the oil and gas pipelines that feed petroleum to the United States.
"We, the indigenous people in the three Prairie provinces are currently the most powerful people in the world. We sit on the pipelines that deliver 2.5 million barrels of oil a day to the United States...," he said in he email, according to the Free Press.
"I'm in Tehran to ask Iran to open the doors to OPEC (Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries) for the indigenous people of Canada."
In an interview with the Free Press, Nelson suggested aboriginal chiefs making common ground with OPEC members over oil ownership would send a powerful message to the Canadian and U.S. governments about the need to respect treaty rights.
"Any country that can influence the indigenous people has to realize what kind of leverage they have," he said. "I don't think everybody [is] understanding that the chiefs won't sit back anymore and say, 'Take our oil.'"
Predictably, the federal government was less than happy.
"We're disappointed that Mr. Nelson has allowed himself to be used as a pawn by the Iranian regime in yet another PR stunt to distract from their own record," Jason MacDonald, a spokesman for Aboriginal Affairs Minister John Duncan, told the Free Press.
[ Related: Former Manitoba First Nation chief asks Iran for help with a human rights matter ]
Calgary Herald columnist Naomi Lakritz said Nelson had made a fool of himself in Iran.
"Nelson, Pashe and the Iranians can have all the meetings they want, but OPEC has no say over Canada's internal affairs, and as former chiefs, Nelson and Pashe have no say over aboriginal affairs. So it sounds like a meeting of equals — all equally powerless," she wrote.
Toronto Sun columnist Lorne Gunter condemned Nelson's trip and comments as the latest in a long line of provocative stunts, including a sustained attack on Jews in the media.
"On several occasions [including as recently as this week], Nelson has blamed Jewish media for the bad coverage he receives," Gunter wrote. "Since a paper I used to work for was owned for a time by a Jewish family and since it was also very critical of him, Nelson often blamed our coverage on the owners' faith."
Gunter said Nelson has no credibility with his own people, having been removed as chief by his Roseau River band council last September over questions about the band's finances and "governance issues." An auditor also questioned more than half a million dollars in loans and advances to several current and former band employees, including Nelson's daughter, that weren't included in financial statements, Gunter wrote.
"Nelson vehemently denied any impropriety and offered counter-explanations of where the money had gone, but ultimately his explanations were deemed insufficient by his own band's council, which expelled him from office," Gunter wrote.

"Not to worry. I'm sure Nelson will find all sorts of new friends in Iran."


These two comments must have had the Iranians scratching their heads:
Nelson, who according to the Winnipeg Free Press also travelled to Iraq in 1990 to meet Saddam Hussein, attacked Canada's record on First Nations; high unemployment, decrepit reserve housing and the disappearance and murder of some 600 aboriginal women in recent years. He reportedly referred to reserves as "concentration camps."

"We, the indigenous people in the three Prairie provinces are currently the most powerful people in the world.


How could the most powerful people in the world live in "concentration camps?"
They say you can't believe everything they say.
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Re: Two Former Canadian Indian Chiefs Trash Canada

Postby Treblehook » Oct 17th, 2012, 8:23 pm

SurplusElect wrote:We took a culture that survived and thrived for 10,000 years without our help or culture and forced them into our society of greed, land ownership economics and substances so we could get at the resources.

"Pull up their bootstraps"?

Natives are where they are because of us, and if they are having difficulty adapting to our culture - no kidding. It's our responsibility to accommodate them and we have not done a excellent job over the years as these Chiefs pointed out.


The original issue of the right or wrong of these two Manitoba Indian Chiefs trapassing off to Iran and trashing Canada seems to have been hijacked somewhat. My response to the above quote is: Osoyoos Indian Band and Chief Clarence Louie. That is what I mean by "pull up their bootstraps". Do some research on the man, his Reserve, it's successes and his message. IMHO, that is the way for our Aboriginal Peoples to extracate themselves from their current situation. Indian Affairs handouts, welfare and crime are sure as hell not the way out ... it hasn't worked for over 100 years and it isn't going to work now.

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLB2CA9A238A2318AE
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Re: Two Former Canadian Indian Chiefs Trash Canada

Postby zzontar » Oct 17th, 2012, 9:36 pm

^^ Exactly, Chief Louie sees the opportunity for prosperity and advancement and tends to look to a brighter future instead of dwelling on the past.
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Re: Two Former Canadian Indian Chiefs Trash Canada

Postby SurplusElect » Oct 17th, 2012, 10:07 pm

You imply that every band should be like the Osoyoos band, which happens to be on the most primo real estate in Canada. Not every band fits the same glove, just ask residents of northern Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba, Ontario and Quebec.

Treblehook wrote: Indian Affairs handouts, welfare and crime are sure as hell not the way out ... it hasn't worked for over 100 years and it isn't going to work now.


Projecting much?

Treblehook wrote:The original issue of the right or wrong of these two Manitoba Indian Chiefs trapassing off to Iran and trashing Canada seems to have been hijacked somewhat.


What did the chiefs say is at issue - is what they said valid? 10,000+ years they did just fine, now unless they casino-up and put a suit on its their own fault they are having trouble adjusting in a few generations - I understood you. I'm not derailing anything, just disagreeing with you.
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Re: Two Former Canadian Indian Chiefs Trash Canada

Postby Treblehook » Oct 18th, 2012, 11:03 pm

My intent was not to imply that every band should be like the Osoyoos Band, but that the approach taken by the Osoyoos Band is the most likely to see [other bands] enjoy some progress and their eventual extracation from the bad circumstances many are in today. I am very familiar with the environment and circumstances of aboriginal peoples in jurisdications other than the south Okanagan... specifically with bands located on reserves all over the province of Manitoba... from the Sioux reserve in the southwestof the province to the Cree in the northern part of Manitoba. Some will have to work harder than others to achieve their goals.. nobody would ever deny that. On the other hand, individual and collective self esteen, dignity and sense of self worth are seldom enhanced or elevated through handouts, etc. Clarence Louie's message is the right message and his approach is the right approach.
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Re: Two Former Canadian Indian Chiefs Trash Canada

Postby coffeeFreak » Oct 19th, 2012, 6:21 am

Treblehook wrote:... Clarence Louie's message is the right message and his approach is the right approach.


I happened to be at an event last night where Clarence spoke. Yes his message is that "Indian people have always worked, so if you don't have a job, find one or make one", however, he also asked the group of mostly non-Aboriginals: "When is the last time any of you have supported the local reserve businesses?" He suggests that reciprocation is essential for better business relations to occur. He challenged both Aboriginal and non-Aboriginal to start working together, because the reality is, we are ALL in this together.

He spoke of land claims and how all too often, reserves are found on the least desirable land and that it is often because the prime land was taken without regard to the contracts drawn up and signed between the federal govt and the First Nations govts.

He also said one of his favourite things to do when he travels, and he travels across the country a lot, is to talk to cab drivers, who he says are almost always people not born in Canada and are relative newcomers. He always asks them, "What do you know about Aboriginal people in Canada?" He says they are almost always hesitant and he offers a bigger tip if they will give him their honest opinion. And then it begins "they get free education...they don't pay any taxes...they get free houses...they get paid by the govt not to work" and "of course 'they are ALL drunks". Then Clarence made a comment, and let it hang in the air for a moment:
"Here are these people who are new to Canada with little or no historical knowledge and few interactions with Aboriginal people, and I have to wonder, where do you think these people are hearing this misinformation from?" He then suggested people watch CBC's four part show, the 8th Fire to better educate themselves about changing their perspectives.

I must admit I have a bias against the man because he tends to take almost all of the credit for the success of the Osoyoos Indian Band. I suppose that is why I went to listen to him last night, and I am glad I did. In my opinion, he still takes far too much credit, but he seems to have matured and has added a depth to his sharing that includes subtle challenges to both the Aboriginals and the non-Aboriginals.

As for the topic of this discussion: The EX-chief appealing to Iran only reveals how uneducated he is about the realities of Iran's conduct in the area of Human Rights. IMO this issue is an idiot issue, not a First Nations issue.

And finally, I ask, why do some people find these kind of stories and see them as representative of ALL Aboriginal people? If this guy was a Caucasian Canadian, he would not be seen as representative of ALL White people in Canada, so please don't do the same here the Aboriginal people.

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Re: Two Former Canadian Indian Chiefs Trash Canada

Postby zoo » Oct 19th, 2012, 8:44 am

SurplusElect wrote:The history and present state concerning how we treat/ed Natives is embarrassing. The UN and other worldly organizations have pointed out quite a few times about how Natives are treated/disadvantaged in Canada even today, it's no lie. Look at our prison population demographics.


Your kidding right???? Show us some countries around the world that have and do treat anyone(special interests, back grounds, natives peoples, in their countries boarders to the same depth we have. Canada has a record to show just how much we have and continue to give in attempts to satisfy different peoples. Disadvantaged, really?? Do some research and see whats available to natives if they chose. Special privileges; school, access to universities, paid for tuitions, tax free status, jobs, training,family assistance,aid,grants,laws,opportunities. I have a native family relative who chose to capitalize on the offerings of this country and you would not believe, when willing, what is given and offered.
Billions have been paid out and will continue in an effort to satisfy (which will never happen).
Do a search for, Canada's newest millionaire club.
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