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If not the F-35, then what?

Re: If not the F-35, then what?

Postby alfred2 » Jun 10th, 2014, 1:40 pm

simple we will sic angry tom on them.
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Re: If not the F-35, then what?

Postby WhenWhatWho » Jun 10th, 2014, 2:11 pm

Atomoa wrote:If you expect to find a fight, you will.

We need to spend more tax money on glorifying 1812. That's what we need.


Wow, you don't follow world history or politics?

*removed*
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Re: If not the F-35, then what?

Postby sooperphreek » Jun 10th, 2014, 4:49 pm

rebuild the avro program through bombardier or something and make our own homegrown jets. we did after all sell the genesis of the f 15 to the good old USA for absolutely nothing years ago. if we could do it back then we can do it now. too bad everybody hates manufacturing and unions. because it would be a shame to throw away good public monies to private companies that leech off the governments teat. why not just buy some from china. they would basically be hyundai planes. they stole all the blue prints from the states and russia and now they make their own. we throw away our resources to them for peanuts anyways. maybe we can get some return on those exports?
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Re: If not the F-35, then what?

Postby Bsuds » Jun 10th, 2014, 4:57 pm

Here's one that's made in Canada. Put some rocket launchers on it and we're good to go.

http://www.seastaramphibian.com/
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Re: If not the F-35, then what?

Postby Atomoa » Jun 10th, 2014, 4:59 pm

WhenWhatWho wrote:
Wow, you don't follow world history or politics?



You compared late 1930's Poland to Canada not defending its borders, 2014.

Poland didn't have satellite capability, did they?

Also, 2014 Canada isn't 1930's Europe. When was the last time a invading foreign entity tried to establish a beachhead in North America?
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Re: If not the F-35, then what?

Postby Captain Awesome » Jun 10th, 2014, 5:31 pm

Canada doesn't need Air Force? LOL.

Canada's interests are protected by membership in certain mutual defense/trade organizations such as NATO or G7. Being a member of these organizations, Canada is required to have Armed Forces (including Air Force), maintain certain level of capabilities and readiness, and get involved if there's a need for it. Canada has no choice but participate because membership in these organizations provides us with stable economy and our interests protected on global political landscape.

So, in reality having jet fighters provides you with this cushy white people lifestyle everybody enjoys in North America - you know, drinking Starbucks coffee, practicing yoga, being preoccupied with non-existent problems like animal rights and vegetarian lifestyle. Because if it wasn't for being global bullies (or being global bully's loyal friend), you'd be enjoying real problems such as how to feed your family and how to escape persecution - things people in third world countries enjoy. Just like US has a superpower status and is the largest economy in the world because of huge influence and hundreds of military bases around the world. You can't have a prospering country one without muscles. Realistically, one is the cause of the other.

PS: Besides, we all know that anybody who doesn't like guns, explosions, and tanks is a nancified sissy-pants Princess.

PPS: I'm not saying F-35's are exactly what Canada needs though I admire it from technical point of view. Just saying that people saying "Oh, we don't need armed forces, we should just get along and save some money" are being unrealistic in their thoughts.
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Re: If not the F-35, then what?

Postby WhenWhatWho » Jun 10th, 2014, 5:50 pm

removed. Changing ones name in the quote is a big ol' no no.
Last edited by Triple 6 on Jun 10th, 2014, 8:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: If not the F-35, then what?

Postby Atomoa » Jun 10th, 2014, 7:15 pm

Captain Awesome wrote:PPS: I'm not saying F-35's are exactly what Canada needs though I admire it from technical point of view. Just saying that people saying "Oh, we don't need armed forces, we should just get along and save some money" are being unrealistic in their thoughts.


We'd be ok with few unmanned drones and a satellite.

If we want to prevent a attack - siding with Israel and funneling energy to China isn't a good start. The US would view any attack on Canada to a threat to their interests and by default they would defend themselves and us in the process. The US outspends China on military budgets (China is first on the enemy list) by 5 times.

Any money we put into furthering our "offensive" force is just penis-envy, military style. Stephen Harper wanted Canadian Aircraft carriers and nuclear submarines, if you recall.
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Re: If not the F-35, then what?

Postby Captain Awesome » Jun 10th, 2014, 7:24 pm

Atomoa wrote:We'd be ok with few unmanned drones and a satellite.

Who is "we"?
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Re: If not the F-35, then what?

Postby Atomoa » Jun 10th, 2014, 7:30 pm

Captain Awesome wrote:Who is "we"?


The editorial we.
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Re: If not the F-35, then what?

Postby Captain Awesome » Jun 10th, 2014, 7:36 pm

Atomoa wrote:The editorial we.


See, if "we" means you and I, then yes, we'd be perfectly ok with few drones and a satellite. Heck, I'd be ok if they flew biplanes.

Canada as a political entity on the other hand needs Armed Forces and Air Force to be a player on the global political landscape, to be a part of global community. It's easy to say "Well, we just have to get along with people, war is bad!", but the reality is completely different. Anybody who is not close minded and completely childish should be able to realize it.
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Re: If not the F-35, then what?

Postby Atomoa » Jun 10th, 2014, 7:45 pm

"Political entity"

That's exactly it. Political. Actual need? Not in the slightest. "For looks/show".

Conservative government chooses to define themselves with military penis power.

We could have a seat on the UN security council and be known for conflict resolution, humanitarian and peace efforts - like we used to be. Nobody expects Canada to be walking the world with a big stick in hand anyways - except when the tires hit the pavement and it really matters. That hasn't happened since WWII. Trying to be something we are not comes across as trying to emulate the US - which is not flattering internationally and on the world stage by any means.

...you're getting as bad with the insults as some of our other more colourful posters Cap't, and we know why they resort to them.
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Re: If not the F-35, then what?

Postby Captain Awesome » Jun 10th, 2014, 7:51 pm

Atomoa wrote:Conservative government chooses to define themselves with military penis power.


Oh, penis jokes. I see the discussion reached new levels of sophistication. Carry on.
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Re: If not the F-35, then what?

Postby maryjane48 » Jun 11th, 2014, 12:37 am

Captain Awesome wrote:Canada doesn't need Air Force? LOL.

Canada's interests are protected by membership in certain mutual defense/trade organizations such as NATO or G7. Being a member of these organizations, Canada is required to have Armed Forces (including Air Force), maintain certain level of capabilities and readiness, and get involved if there's a need for it. Canada has no choice but participate because membership in these organizations provides us with stable economy and our interests protected on global political landscape.

So, in reality having jet fighters provides you with this cushy white people lifestyle everybody enjoys in North America - you know, drinking Starbucks coffee, practicing yoga, being preoccupied with non-existent problems like animal rights and vegetarian lifestyle. Because if it wasn't for being global bullies (or being global bully's loyal friend), you'd be enjoying real problems such as how to feed your family and how to escape persecution - things people in third world countries enjoy. Just like US has a superpower status and is the largest economy in the world because of huge influence and hundreds of military bases around the world. You can't have a prospering country one without muscles. Realistically, one is the cause of the other.

PS: Besides, we all know that anybody who doesn't like guns, explosions, and tanks is a nancified sissy-pants Princess.

PPS: I'm not saying F-35's are exactly what Canada needs though I admire it from technical point of view. Just saying that people saying "Oh, we don't need armed forces, we should just get along and save some money" are being unrealistic in their thoughts.



none of this is true and the point of selling energy to our enemy china makes no sense if you really believe what you just posted here.canada needs to be canada, not trying to be a mini us. we dont have the money to be a real power anymore, we dont even have nukes so at best we might be able to take on jamaica
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Re: If not the F-35, then what?

Postby Merry » Jun 11th, 2014, 6:54 am

Canada's interests are protected by membership in certain mutual defense/trade organizations such as NATO or G7. Being a member of these organizations, Canada is required to have Armed Forces (including Air Force), maintain certain level of capabilities and readiness, and get involved if there's a need for it.


This part of the Captain's quote is most certainly true. We ARE a member of NATO and as such we ARE required to maintain our armed forces to a certain standard.

The fact that Canada is not equipped to fully defend itself in the (hopefully) unlikely event it should ever become necessary, makes our membership in such military alliances essential, as opposed to optional.

History shows us that country's ill prepared to defend themselves are often targeted by larger, "bully" nations. So, strange as it may seem, being well prepared can actually help achieve long term peace. It is perceived weakness that often leads to military conflict.
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