Harper to meet with Chief Spence/First Nations leaders

[kibbs]

You indians lost the war

When was Canada ever at war with the"Indians"?

[cv23]

When was Canada ever at war with the"Indians"?

That's one of the problems.
In the US war was declared and the natives were/are considered conquered people. No big native problems south of the border.
Canada on the other hand has treated it's native population like children and now they have become nothing more than spoiled brats. They now wrongly think they are special because they have been coddled, and like any child who has been spoon fed it's whole life and never made to grow up and fend for themselves like a normal adult, they stomp their feet and throw hissyfits demanding more and more from their parent.
Time to cut the umbilical cord and end their free ride through life once and for all and let them become responsible Canadians just like every other citizen of this country.

[SmokeOnTheWater]

Time to cut the umbilical cord and end their free ride through life once and for all and let them become responsible Canadians just like every other citizen of this country.

I'm not savvy on that subject but I heard their land is worth too much money to let them go.

[Boda]

There's where you are not only posting your loosely contrived opinion, but in reality...much like the others running "down a quart" in this thread, you're speaking if not preaching from a mindset of ignorance and nothing more.
Much like the others in your field...you need some edumykayshun...





Admitedly a contrived opinion from personal observation, but preaching?
I was simply trying to refute or actually understand you position in this discussion.
From my unedumykayted observation I can't recognize your contribution to a solution.
Too much disdain and too many insults (for me) to understand how you feel this problem (that you don't disagree exists) needs to be addressed.
Do you have access to public opinion polls reflecting the majority of Canadian citizens opinion on this sink hole of tax payer dollars?
Do you believe that the majority of Canadian citizens are OK with an exponentially larger percentage of tax payer dollars per capita going to any visble minority in this country?
On what grounds do you claim my opinion is coming from a mindset of ignorance and nothing more?
What "field" do you feel that you have authority to place me and "others like me in"?

I'll consider the source of my "FAIL" while evaluating the grade.
Get off your high horse and discuss a solution to the woes that (to me) you appear so pationate about.
I'll gladly admit to being less educated than you appear to be with you elequent command of written English.
Does this mean I shouldn't be permitted to enter your public discussion?
Running down quart does'nt mean lack of moality. Does it?
Don't hate me. I just have an opinion and unlike you I don't feel that you will never alter it with with curtious debate on this or other topics.

[SmokeOnTheWater]

Do you have access to public opinion polls reflecting the majority of Canadian citizens opinion on this sink hole of tax payer dollars?
Do you believe that the majority of Canadian citizens are OK with an exponentially larger percentage of tax payer dollars per capita going to any visble minority in this country?

Again not savvy on that subject, but my understanding is, that we taxpayers, do not blindly give our money away to the First Nations. We do exploit their land, don't we ?

[grammafreddy]

Canada on the other hand has treated it's native population like children and now they have become nothing more than spoiled brats. They now wrongly think they are special because they have been coddled, and like any child who has been spoon fed it's whole life and never made to grow up and fend for themselves like a normal adult, they stomp their feet and throw hissyfits demanding more and more from their parent.
Time to cut the umbilical cord and end their free ride through life once and for all and let them become responsible Canadians just like every other citizen of this country.

LOL - it was never the government's intention for the natives to think for themselves or be responsible. The government wanted the natives to be dependent upon them so they could control them and their traditional lands. As long as the natives were free on the land, they were attacking the white man and the entrepreneurs who were establishing trapping and mining enterprises on their lands and decimating the hunting and the natives' way of life. The educated white man and his fast-talking lawyers bamboozled the naive, uneducated natives with Treaties and promised peaceful, end-of-the-wars lifestyle, housing, food and schools for their kids if the natives would live on the reserve lands they allocated for them. The natives were tired of fighting with the white guys and they were hungry because the white guys had destroyed their hunting and gathering grounds - plus they really wanted their kids to have schooling - so they agreed to live on the reserves and signed the Treaties. Then the white man took their kids away, gave them to the religious freeks who abused the kids, threatened them, starved them and worked their little tushes off instead of giving them the good education their parents had thought they would get. The government made sure the natives became dependent upon them for every little aspect of their lives, forbade them to leave their reserves to hunt or to gather their food and their medicine, forbade them to speak their languages, forbade them to hold their traditional ceremonies and their cultural values. If they didn't "behave", the white guys cut their funding and threatened to keep their kids away from them. So they behaved and did the government's bidding.

And now we see where it has all ended up after more than a century of government dominance and threats. You wanna blame somebody - blame the federal government and also the provincial ones. They created this whole mess.

[cv23]

I'm not savvy on that subject but I heard their land is worth too much money to let them go.

"They" don't have any land.
Any land "they" think they have is federal land and part of Canada not some foreign country.

[Boda]

[quote="SmokeOnTheWaterAgain not savvy on that subject, but my understanding is, that we taxpayers, do not blindly give our money away to the First Nations. We do exploit their land, don't we ?[/quote]


I don't claim to be savvy on dollar amounts either, but I don't have any problem "assuming" that per capita Indians recieve a larger portion of tax dollars than any other visible majority in Canada.I will gladly acknowledge proof to the contrary.

Re: your comment "We do exploit their land, don't we ?" Perhaps that is also fact. If so why is that not a negotiated "public" contract between exploiters and exploitees?
Do you think the desired compensation package should be "well you exploited me, now you have to support me & mine for eternity"?
I think it shoud be "well to exploit this land you have to pay $XXX". Not send these "Chiefs" exponentially larger per capita tax dollars than other "poor" Canadian citizens are elibable for with no accountability.

I sincerely hope Chief Spence' alledged wrong doings, her and her boyfriends bank accounts, and every other nickel they may have hoarded at the expense of thier people is brought to public scrutiny.

[grammafreddy]

Prime Minister John A. Macdonald, 1868. Macdonald believed it
was necessary to separate Aboriginal children from their parents in
residential schools. In 1883 he told the House of Commons, “When
the school is on the reserve, the child lives with his parents who
are savages; he is surrounded by savages, and though he may learn
to read and write, his habits and training and mode of thought are
Indian. He is simply a savage who can read and write.” Library and
Archives Canada, Harold Daly fonds, C-006513.

http://www.attendancemarketing.com/~att ... osting.pdf

[Roadster]

All history GF, is old news, now we have to look at the future, starting with getting the chips off the shoulders and our government has to get that going. Time for changes, new plan,,, we can't live based on history alone and get ahead.

[SmokeOnTheWater]

All history GF, is old news, now we have to look at the future, starting with getting the chips off the shoulders and our government has to get that going. Time for changes, new plan,,, we can't live based on history alone and get ahead.

You are right. Let's all go back to Europe where we came from.

[coffeeFreak]

It boggles my mind how intelligent citizens continue to maintain their ignorance of this topic by focusing on such inaccuracies and simplistic statements such as "spoiled brats" or "you Indians lost the war" and by refusing to actually read up on the history of the topic they are discussing so that some sort of intelligent dialogue can occur...

If you want to actually learn a little about what you are talking about here, I suggest you read from your own federal government website a very brief and basic outline of how we have gotten to where we are today...Part 2 provides a great overview, however it is still minus some very disturbing details.

First Encounters – Military and Commercial Alliances will help you understand some of the complexities behind the treaties and creation of reserves http://www.aadnc-aandc.gc.ca/eng/1307460755710/1307460872523

[grammafreddy]

Roadie - you can't move forward in anything unless you understand what has created the problems in the past.

One simply cannot "turn off the tap" to the native people. There has been too much damage done to too many of them for that to work now. You can't swipe their reserves out from under them, bus them all to a city and expect them to all get jobs and to pay taxes. It isn't going to happen. There are too many drug and alcohol addicts, too many FAS people, too many young adults with gang affiliations now. There are too many old folks who would not know how to survive in a city. If you moved them all to one part of a city, you would be creating mini-ghettos of crime and drug dealing.

[cv23]

So our great great great great grandfather supposedly did the natives some wrong.
Even in the case of murder, the most heinous of all crimes that can be committed, only the murder himself pays reparations or serves his time, not all his decendents for ever more.
Anything that may have been owed was paid for generations ago. It is now time to end the gravy train to end and ALL citizens of Canada be equal.

[cv23]

One simply cannot "turn off the tap" to the native people. There has been too much damage done to too many of them for that to work now. You can't swipe their reserves out from under them, bus them all to a city and expect them to all get jobs and to pay taxes. It isn't going to happen. There are too many drug and alcohol addicts, too many FAS people, too many young adults with gang affiliations now. There are too many old folks who would not know how to survive in a city. If you moved them all to one part of a city, you would be creating mini-ghettos of crime and drug dealing.

One simply cannot "turn off the tap" to the Canadian people. There has been too much damage done to too many of them for that to work now. You can't swipe their homes out from under them, bus them all to a city and expect them to all get jobs and to pay taxes. It isn't going to happen. There are too many drug and alcohol addicts, too many FAS people, too many young adults with gang affiliations now. There are too many old folks who would not know how to survive in a city. If you moved them all to one part of a city, you would be creating mini-ghettos of crime and drug dealing.