Harper to meet with Chief Spence/First Nations leaders

[eMeM]

"As long as there's an Indian Act the government can use it to control them. It works both ways."
Indeed but to completely abolish the Act won't work. You can bet all that federal funding the Natives don't want that either.

In the article I shared a moment ago speaks of Harper trying to fix these issues incrementally. It seems the INM movement wants everything done yesterday.

[Ken7]

"grammafreddy"
No. I don't see it as an either/or situation.

They wanted an arena so they baked the cupcakes, grilled the hot dogs and raised the money to get that arena. I say kudos to them for accomplishing that.

When the people of Kelowna wanted a new arena, how many cupcakes did they bake?

I don't see that it was up to the natives to fund raise to build a new school. People off reserves are not expected to provide their schools. Why should the natives have to? I saw in their financial statements they are paying for a teacherage - do we provide the homes for the teachers here? Why should they? Sometimes a teacherage is a combination school and teacher's residence - in which case they would also be paying for the school. I wonder if they also pay the teachers' wages and pensions and benefits?

I find it quite shameful the government has not provided a decent heated school building for those kids in all this time. How can kids learn properly when they have to wear their outside clothes in class and sit there shivering instead of learning? If your kids' school was not heated, would you still send your kids to school? How loud would you be yelling for government to remedy the situation?[/quote]


Gram, your credibility is lost with me now. You can't believe that is how they raised the money seriously. They wouldn't pass out heaters to those in the cold tents, they sure and hell won't be woppin up bannock and hotdogs or to raise money either!


Please you are insulting our intelligence by suggesting they raised over 5 Million dollars to build their rink.

I call Bull Dung!!

[grammafreddy]

They beleive each one of their people and land comes before canadians because they are native canadian. They believe they must move forward but not in the manner that society has. They believe that how they do things is the right way because they were here first. They believe that canadians have stopped them from building a culture based on their customes and the way society runs does nto and will not affect how they do things whether it buggers up canada or not. They believe each one of their chiefs is as important as the prime minister (not that each chief has as much land or people to organize doesn't matter). They believe schooling the people means teaching them the old ways and how not to fit into canada as it is but as they want it. They believe they come before the Queen and that they should have the privlleges that the Queen/King. Each Chief should have its own throne and each of us will one day respect every native culture and customs and all will be well,

That's pretty close.

Each Indian Nation is its own "country" and each chief of each nation has the same status as the Prime Minister has. There are 600+ nations within the nation of Canada. Each nation has different issues/challenges, customs and even different languages. They do not have one chief/government who makes decisions for all of them.

I think they recognize that their people need the white man's education in today's world - that's why some of them study law, environmental science and political science, business and medicine. However, they also recognize the need to educate their kids in their own languages and about their own cultures and traditions, which the government of Canada has done a fairly good job of beating out of the natives in the past (residential schools comes to mind).

[Veovis]

I guess Theresa just wants to be given everything

"He makes false statement about fundings. He doesn't give details about where it goes. Most of the funding that we have, it goes back to you, to taxpayers. It goes out of our reserve. For example, housing: we have to hire contractors, we have to order the materials from out of town and to shipment.

So because they are given 18 million a year, but have to actually BUY things with it it's just like it was never given to them. Oh except for tall the things they bought with the money. This type attitude is a large part of the problem.

I do get the feeling more and more that we'll find out in the end that she's just incompetent and others set her as chief to rob the place blind, he statements certainly don't contain a lot of comprehension of how to use 34 million a year for her community.

[grammafreddy]

Gram, your credibility is lost with me now. You can't believe that is how they raised the money seriously. They wouldn't pass out heaters to those in the cold tents, they sure and hell won't be woppin up bannock and hotdogs or to raise money either!

Please you are insulting our intelligence by suggesting they raised over 5 Million dollars to build their rink.

I call Bull Dung!!

You have obviously missed this post ... viewtopic.php?f=27&t=48422&start=420#p1407185

I thought you said you read the posts I make? I have posted that link to their pdf about 4 or 5 times now. Have you not followed it yet?

[Ken7]

Rwede


The Indians at Atta were too lazy to open boxes full of donated items when the housing crisis was happening last year. There's little chance they'd have enough shutzpah to actually move to a new location for a better life, if they can't move 10 feet to open a cardboard box.

Although according to some, they had fund raisers and Bingos utilizing their volenteers to raise millions to build a rink. Hows that... No need to use the Goverments money no way!!

[dogspoiler]

Typical inefective do gooders, they didn't send someone to open the boxes and distribute the donated goods.

[Ken7]

"grammafreddy"
You have obviously missed this post ... viewtopic.php?f=27&t=48422&start=420#p1407185

I thought you said you read the posts I make? I have posted that link to their pdf about 4 or 5 times now. Have you not followed it yet?


Ok, as you stated that not all written on the net is true. Do you believe every article the Natives have written?


Try thinking outside the box.

Those lazy people didn't help themselves with items each and every home could have used such as heaters. They sure the heck wouldn't have time to raise millions. That's crazy if you believe that one. I've got a bridge to sell you north of LaRonge.

I give up..

[grammafreddy]

"He makes false statement about fundings. He doesn't give details about where it goes. Most of the funding that we have, it goes back to you, to taxpayers. It goes out of our reserve. For example, housing: we have to hire contractors, we have to order the materials from out of town and to shipment.

So because they are given 18 million a year, but have to actually BUY things with it it's just like it was never given to them. Oh except for tall the things they bought with the money. This type attitude is a large part of the problem.

I do get the feeling more and more that we'll find out in the end that she's just incompetent and others set her as chief to rob the place blind, he statements certainly don't contain a lot of comprehension of how to use 34 million a year for her community.

People living in the north are faced with entirely different situations than people living in the southern parts of Canada are. Just for starters, everything is much more expensive - everything. The cost of freighting/flying/barging supplies is huge. Some northern communities have no roads into them, some have seasonal ice roads.

When the communities buy things, they have to come from the south and be brought in somehow - so the chief is right when she says the money they receive goes back to us, the truckers, the food suppliers, the farmers and ranchers, the dairies, the mobile home manufacturers, the fuel supply companies, the contractors from the south, the accommodations they stay in when they travel outside their communities to doctors/hospitals/meetings - and to the government as well - through taxing all those companies, contractors, warehouses and services they utilize.

[Ken7]

Typical inefective do gooders, they didn't send someone to open the boxes and distribute the donated goods.

Most orf them would starve if they were locked in the grocery store once the chips and pop were finished.

[Veovis]

Wrong, just wrong GF. The money doesn't "Come back to us". The money goes to whoever provided the services or goods to them, it's the basic way EVERYONE does things or gets things in Canada. Since it's a free country they also have the option to choose whoever they want to do business with, so they could order from a Native store and all the money would then "stay with them" by your logic.

However they seem to be spending all the money and no goods or services are ever received. I'll grant that things are more expensive. I'll also note that they tend to advance cash to people and then write it off without ever getting anything.

I feel the same distaste for beggers with an iPhone. Show some fiscal responsibility and I'll be more willing to believe you need help and more money. However you need to show that you have desire to work, earn and provide, not just ask ask and ask.

There may well be a case for increased funding and assistance for attawapiskat, but until they can come up with a better explanation for 104 million missing other than "I don't recall" I don't believe that they need more help. They simply need people who will use the money to help their people not just themselves.

[grammafreddy]

Try thinking outside the box.

I am. I am seeing a much larger picture of the history and the reality these people live with every day. Seems to me there's a lot of posters here who are not, though.

And no, I don't believe everything they post - just like I don't believe everything the media is posting - and people here are swallowing as gospel just because good ol' Ezra or some blogger says so.

Unlike some, I don't think bringing in the army with their tanks and blowing them all to smitherines is the answer.

Unlike some, I don't think the crown and the Canadian government has done right by these people right from the very beginning but especially with the Indian Act and the way the government has manipulated it (and them) over time.

[Ken7]

"grammafreddy"

I am. I am seeing a much larger picture of the history and the reality these people live with every day. Seems to me there's a lot of posters here who are not, though.

And no, I don't believe everything they post - just like I don't believe everything the media is posting - and people here are swallowing as gospel just because good ol' Ezra or some blogger says so.

Unlike some, I don't think bringing in the army with their tanks and blowing them all to smitherines is the answer.

Unlike some, I don't think the crown and the Canadian government has done right by these people right from the very beginning but especially with the Indian Act and the way the government has manipulated it (and them) over time.

Ok thats a good thing.

You've been around. No one disagrees the Indian Act is not for the people. It will only work if both parties follow the rules!

If a group of people won't help themselves, using the heaters as a perfect example. They live in shacks and need heat. Wghat would you say about them?

Now in saying that.. can you really believe they worked on potluck suppers, bingo etc to raise millions?

[grammafreddy]

Wrong, just wrong GF. The money doesn't "Come back to us". The money goes to whoever provided the services or goods to them, it's the basic way EVERYONE does things or gets things in Canada. Since it's a free country they also have the option to choose whoever they want to do business with, so they could order from a Native store and all the money would then "stay with them" by your logic.

However they seem to be spending all the money and no goods or services are ever received. I'll grant that things are more expensive. I'll also note that they tend to advance cash to people and then write it off without ever getting anything.

I feel the same distaste for beggers with an iPhone. Show some fiscal responsibility and I'll be more willing to believe you need help and more money. However you need to show that you have desire to work, earn and provide, not just ask ask and ask.

There may well be a case for increased funding and assistance for attawapiskat, but until they can come up with a better explanation for 104 million missing other than "I don't recall" I don't believe that they need more help. They simply need people who will use the money to help their people not just themselves.

Where is this "native store" supposed to get the goods it sells? The money it spends on stocking it would go out of the community, wouldn't it? And government would tax those suppliers, right?

As for "I don't recall" - if they were asking the current chief or the current co-manager, they were NOT the chief or co-manager for the whole period of that audit - so they may not know about that money. Spence has only been the chief since the middle of last year. The people who were in those positions may not be in the community any longer or they may be dead now, so perhaps can't be asked.

There is no evidence that Chief Spence has been using the community's money for herself at the expense of her people that I have seen as a proven fact. There's lots of speculation, though, as the media runs wild with that.

[grammafreddy]

Now in saying that.. can you really believe they worked on potluck suppers, bingo etc to raise millions?

What millions?