Harper to meet with Chief Spence/First Nations leaders

[zoo]

try reposting without all caps - Jennylives

[dogspoiler]

Yes, far better to Idle Some More, Beat drums, block traffic and demand someone else does everything for you.

[grammafreddy]

One of the rights it seems they do have, is to sit on their duffs collecting money from Canadians who in fact did nothing to them, Canadians many of whom have to stretch their resources far more than natives do, to accomplish the same ends.

You are correct. And your (my) government gave them that right in exchange for signing off on the vast tracts of their traditional lands so that they could build roads, railways, mines, mills, towns, etc on those lands without getting attacked by the natives. Since your (my) government had already slaughtered all the buffalo, decimated their crops, gave them diseases, provided them with alcohol, attacked their villages, raped their women and left them weakened and reduced in number they complied because they were promised their own land to live on undisturbed by the government and their soldiers and police, seed for their crops, food to eat, homes to live in, schools for their kids and medical help for their sick and money for each member of their nation as well as money to maintain their homes and reservations.

Once all the natives who signed treaties with the crown were corralled on reservations, the government changed the rules and didn't provide seed, didn't provide schools, didn't give them medical care and wouldn't let them leave the reserves to go hunting and fishing - or even gathering firewood for cooking or heating their homes. It held back the money they were promised and doled it out in little bits as the government saw fit, not as the people needed it. It took their children away from them and sent them to religious schools to beat the Indian out of them so that future generations of natives would be more European in their ways and thinking and the government gave the allotted money for those children to the religious churches instead of to the people themselves as they were promised in their treaties. The government desired, created and achieved a native people dependency upon government for their very existence on those reservations through the Indian Act and through the treaties.

[wolfen_one]

removed - Jennylives

[Roadster]

That's horrible, they get land and a house for life, but they can't own it. I'm sure they'd rather live in the same house but have to work for it their whole lives, and then even though they "own" it, they'd lose it if they didn't pay taxes on it. Now seeing as you hear so much about how they complain they're stuck on a reserve, what better opportunity could they have than to be able to save for a house off-reserve with what they save on rent or mortgage payments on-reserve, another opportunity that the rest of Canadians don't get, yet that doesn't seem to be happening.

As far as the condition of some of their houses, I don't know why they don't adopt a sort of strata system when they're given houses where they must keep up the lawn, can't board up the windows, can't leave garbage or old cars in their yards, etc. or you get the boots. Most any other Canadian would jump at the idea of getting free housing you just have to maintain, so why doesn't it work for the natives?

10/10

How true that is. Lemme tell ya something. When I was in the military, if we lived on base we got a house as a rental, way cheaper then town,,, but as long as there was one available, usually was. It was a house, nothing special and unless you were creative it looked just like the neighbor's house, and their neighbour's house, it was maintained but if the damage was your fault they could charge you for the repairs, infact they were inspected on the day you were moving out to make sure they were in the same boring state you moved in it as. Wall paper,,, had to come off, holes in walls? There was a reasonable amount allowed.
We lived on two bases and saved up for a down payment for our next move and from then on we owned...

We had to pay rent tho lets not forget,,,

[dogspoiler]

If you want to live in the past you will be dissapointed, you cannot change it, If these people do not make an effort to join our society there will be trouble forever. Sitting and whining is the way of the loser, working and upgrading is the way of the winner.

[LoneWolf_53]

Sorry GF but at the end of the day, when considering dollar values, and benefit values, they are still way ahead of what many regular Canadians end up with, yet those still get the privilege of contributing monies to their cause.

The time for crying over spilt milk has long passed, and particularly in this day and age, with emphasis on equality and all, it's time we were all truly made equal.

Your touching story by the way leaves out other harsh realities of the past, and focuses only on the big bad white man, what about what might have happened between the tribes themselves? You act as though it's a given that they would all still be here, even though they had a history of killing each other off for horses and whatnot.

Methinks you are being but a tad over optimistic in regards to where they might be at now, had white man not come. Oh and as has been pointed out they weren't the first here either, so not really first nations, rather more appropriately "second".

Why is it that some groups have come to accept what history has dealt them, while others cling to it as a crutch in perpetuity?

The past is exactly that, the past, time to move along now.

[grammafreddy]

If you want to live in the past you will be dissapointed, you cannot change it, If these people do not make an effort to join our society there will be trouble forever. Sitting and whining is the way of the loser, working and upgrading is the way of the winner.

The Indian Act and the treaties are still law and still have jurisdiction over both natives and government.

[zzontar]

You are correct. And your (my) government gave them that right in exchange for signing off on the vast tracts of their traditional lands so that they could build roads, railways, mines, mills, towns, etc on those lands without getting attacked by the natives.

Wow, nowadays if you want someone to come in and do all that you have to pay through the nose, never mind just promising not to attack them!

[dogspoiler]

Please show me the part of the act that says an Indian cannot be a productive member of society.

[LoneWolf_53]

Wow, nowadays if you want someone to come in and do all that you have to pay through the nose, never mind just promising not to attack them!

No kidding.

From my observations, the natives also enjoy using said infrastructure, to ride their trusty steeds *read hummers and F350's* off to the hunt.

[grammafreddy]

Sorry GF but at the end of the day, when considering dollar values, and benefit values, they are still way ahead of what many regular Canadians end up with, yet those still get the privilege of contributing monies to their cause.

The time for crying over spilt milk has long passed, and particularly in this day and age, with emphasis on equality and all, it's time we were all truly made equal.

Your touching story by the way leaves out other harsh realities of the past, and focuses only on the big bad white man, what about what might have happened between the tribes themselves? You act as though it's a given that they would all still be here, even though they had a history of killing each other off for horses and whatnot.

Methinks you are being but a tad over optimistic in regards to where they might be at now, had white man not come. Oh and as has been pointed out they weren't the first here either, so not really first nations, rather more appropriately "second".

Why is it that some groups have come to accept what history has dealt them, while others cling to it as a crutch in perpetuity?

The past is exactly that, the past, time to move along now.

LOL, Lone Wolf .. it's not MY touching story. Its their story and government's story and it is the way things were and the reason for why things as are they are now. I didn't just make it up.

First people or not, they were the people who were here when the Europeans arrived and they were the people who the government of the day acknowledged land ownership to and signed treaties with and made laws about - laws that are still on the books today and which still have to be honoured today.

[grammafreddy]

Please show me the part of the act that says an Indian cannot be a productive member of society.

The government of the day did not want them to be productive members of society - they wanted - and got - total native dependency on government.

[dogspoiler]

I did not ask what the Government wanted Granny. I asked where it said they could not be productive members of society, lazy is a choice.

[LoneWolf_53]

laws that are still on the books today and which still have to be honoured today.

As if we haven't been hoodwinked by government ourselves, remember a thing called income tax, that was supposed to be a temporary measure to support war efforts? Fuel tax that was implemented to pay for roads and infrastructure, that they predicted automobiles would need, yet gets put into general revenue?

Natives sure as heck aren't the only ones, who have been on the receiving end, of forked tongue government.

Welcome to planet earth!