Harper to meet with Chief Spence/First Nations leaders

[zookeeper]

When was the last time one of them actually gathered food?

Last weekend, by what I saw, but it's easy to just pop down to the grocery store, isn't it cv?

their parents should be encouraging them to move on and better themselves.

They do (fyi, the 4 young women that actually started INM are lawyers), many of them DO NOT have their educations paid for, and these parents (many who have learned no parenting skills from the white man forced residential schools) do want a better life for their children and grandchildren. It's so bright and shiny over here on the Canadian side, isn't it?

Don't come off like you know what you are talking about when you obviously have no idea.

[kibbs]

It was a fantastic dwelling.
But they were just savages.
Right?

Your anger is justified and I can feel it brother.Many here only watch Sun TV and and haven't a clue as to what the general Canadian thinks or believes .You are not alone, just living in stereotype country.This is a time of great awareness
and I believe great change. Don't let this group who think reserves are all decrepit places of anarchy.fuel your anger .It will only eat you and fulfill their schadenfreude.

[Roadster]

They do (fyi, the 4 young women that actually started INM are lawyers), many of them DO NOT have their educations paid for, and these parents (many who have learned no parenting skills from the white man forced residential schools) do want a better life for their children and grandchildren. It's so bright and shiny over here on the Canadian side, isn't it?

Yes, there are some native lawyers and some very heart breaking stories but does that mean people in general are looking to their future? Do the reserves people still scream for more money because some of those smart ones are raking buck from them? Yes? Our government is paying it out, seems they are being taken by some of their own people who might be too smart for them people on the reserves,,,? This adding up to even more sad stories... Loosing a house back then,,, living in a leaky cold one in the north today,,, I don't know what's worse,,, I think our apologies are being paid, (even tho I have nothing to do with what happened many years ago before my daddy was even a thought), point being this isn't a government problem anymore,,, it tried to intervene and seems it was removed off the land as were reporters... When money is handed to them and they have hoards of their own gov officials running a 300 house chunk of land who are richer then our school principals and mayors we have a problem and it might be right on the doorstep of those on that land, will they complain? Nope,,, they are likely told the money isn't available from the government or some other story. Or it's coming,,, or just let me go on a hunger strike and we will get more as we deserve...

[zzontar]

My mother lived in a square log house with dovetailed corners. It was a two story that raised a family with eight kids. Two of those kids were by today's standards adopted.

That's not a good story by any means, but when I was referring to dwellings, I was referring to what would the natives be living in if in wasn't for the white man. Uninsulated tents more or less, which is why it's so odd that you'll hear complaints about how they can't live their traditional life anymore until they have to live their traditional life, then there's more complaints, do those people want to live in teepees or don't they?

Here's the other side of the coin. Someone's forefather wanted a better life for his family so he hauled his family and belongings in his covered wagon to an area he thought unoccupied as Canada was so sparsely populated then. (in 1701 when the first treaties were signed, Canada's non-native population was estimated to be 1,134, and Canada's a pretty big country) Unfortunately, a band of natives spotted them, and as GF wrote:

As long as the natives were free on the land, they were attacking the white man and the entrepreneurs who were establishing trapping and mining enterprises on their lands and decimating the hunting and the natives' way of life.

What do you think the natives did with these families Graham, take their kids and put them in native schools? Should any remaining relatives hate all natives because of that? They would if they had your attitude.

[zookeeper]

(even tho I have nothing to do with what happened many years ago before my daddy was even a thought),

This is where you are wrong. Many of "those parents" you speak of are likely younger than you. And again, wrong that this isn't a government problem anymore. I'm sure you remember the saying "the government gives with one hand and takes with the other"?
Maybe no one will understand until they come for your back yard because there's something in it or on the way to what what they want. You have to be reading the other threads, complaining about potholes and poor street lighting, thousands upon thousands of job losses, mega vacancies in metropolis? How about the lady that stole from the kid's band fund? I don't see everyone up in arms about band programs now, cut them all off, make one universal Canadian band program with one band teacher all across Canada? Government cut backs in every area you can think of (schools, hospitals), municipalities cheaping out on public services such as road maintenance etc, but the white governments still keep foolishly spending and spending (Super bowl ads, really? How beneficial to an economy headed for the big flush), that's not stealing or misappropriated use of tax dollars now is it?

Yes, there are some native lawyers and some very heart breaking stories but does that mean people in general are looking to their future? Do the reserves people still scream for more money because some of those smart ones are raking buck from them? Yes? Our government is paying it out, seems they are being taken by some of their own people who might be too smart for them people on the reserves,,,?

It doesn't seem to matter, all the whimpering about how the young ones should go out and better themselves and when they do they are still thieves? SMH

Take a good, hard, long look at your Canada and your government. Take that few cents of extra tax money (individually) and see if it will pay for what you have and need? Then take that few cents of savings and put it towards non-funded government programs such as pay as you go medical system (because no Canadian I know gets income based MSP, reduced prescriptions, free eye exams, dental etc), clean drinking water (a right, not a privilege, ask the people of Walkertin), paved roads and infrastructure, schools, back to work programs and initiatives, grants for schooling and businesses, etc etc. Don't ask your government for any help when your world goes to heck in a hand basket, don't stand up your for rights that the government says you have and then decides to take them away from you behind your back.
You want equality? Stop paying taxes, as you believe all natives don't, and fend for yourself in this rich, well run, pristine country you call home.

[Roadster]

This is not an excuse for any individual not to try to advance themselves and make it what they want it to be. If we all played that way no one would be ahead. No the government is not always fair but they do pay the natives, its the bands that distribute the cash as far as I know and if it isn't coming a person needs to get out and make it themselves so they know where it's coming from and how it gets into their own hands. Again, as asked earlier, if white man had never come where would they be? Trading stuff with each other still? Could very well be, there are still many areas not taken by white man where the natives are far behind, as well as under developed countries where technologies are not being used and water isn't just "not perfect" but is diseased to the point they are drinking what we here in this country would call sewage. Think about that, they not only were given knowledge as was GA's family to build a nice home probably, but are given an allowance you and I don't get from OUR government. If it isn't coming to them then maybe someone is smarter then they should be for the good of their own people.
If I had ten kids and one is say 15 and the rest are all in the range of say 9 down to 2. I bring a big bag of candy and tell the 15 year old to share it equally between them all... You know the 15 year old is more educated then the rest... He might share nicely with the nine year old cos that one has some smarts already too... Ya think the 2 year old is gonna get his share? Do ya think he will cry if he got say one or two candies less? No he is gonna be happy it was his turn to get some, it don't matter exactly how many,,, two pieces looks like a world of fun for him and he might cry if it's all gone and others get more but he doesn't but for the time being he is just happy he got some.
I know this isn't a good comparison in some people's mind but you see my point, the educated ones can do as they like once the money is there, and it's my understanding many reserve people don't complete grade eight so the opportunity to play several decks of cards might be there. Are these people aware of the bucks they are supposed to get? Is it placed in their own accounts directly or do they come into an office and are handed some? Are they taxed on it in different ways according to different band offices? Are meetings held to discuss the need for repairs on homes and how cash is either available or not and why if not?
So take a look at OUR government,,, it's paying them, it wants to look at the money uses and is not allowed. What's so bad about our government? It's not controlling the money so it gets to the hungry and cold ones IMO and why some are paid to riches or so it's looking and why some money is just MIA in the system once it leaves the governments hands.

[Graham Adder]

Don't ask your government for any help when your world goes to heck in a hand basket...<snip>...and fend for yourself in this rich, well run, pristine country you call home.

I rest pretty easy every night knowing that when the Schlitz really does go side-a-ways...the weakest will be the first to surface, asking for help...begging for the sake of their family and their lives.

Who will they be crawling to, begging for help?

People that know from thousands of years of tradition how to survive and even flourish off the land.
No worries though. There will be no hard feelings. It's the way WE roll.
Think: sinking ferry.
We'll be there...myself included...to help you learn how to survive without your gas and electricity.
We've done it in the past, even though you were giving us disease and raping our women AND children.
We still had more vision for the real future and knew that helping was and will be the right thing to do.

And that's how I roll.

[Roadster]

I don't get that thinking either. I came to BC with nearly nothing but a small car thinking there was work for me, that car became a small motor home in the begining of winter and I survived not once screaming at anyone that things didn't work out. I did bits of yard work and some other small jobs that whole winter with no power or heat, my heat was when I was able to take a break in someone's house while on the job and was offered a hot coffee by the more thoughtful ones. That was in 1990, anyone remember how cold it got and how long we had snow on the ground that year?
By spring I had enough saved and a crappy little indoor job so I could rent a small shack on top of an old man's garage in Headly. Ya we don't know how to survive but we do it. Rice and bananas and few other things were my diet for quite some time cos food was a luxury for that time. I bought the odd O Henry bar for an energy boost, energy food wasn't on the market back then. The bananas came only when I could get a ride to town to get them cos my old motor home wasn't quite road worthy so I bought lots and ate them even when they were really ugly and black. Basmati rice is my favorite but couldn't afford that so white was it. I didn't get any help from anyone, didn't ask and didn't die or starve. It was the first time in my life I had to work real hard for every little bit and I felt it but I did it. I had several blankets I bought at second hand stores for a couple bucks and Very few other things besides a book some one would lend me. I am white BTW and garbage bags were curtains on my little windows. Anything I scored was second hand, bought cheap or left at the store.
Let's not forget I had no band member to help me out even with pennies and there was no house leaky or not, nothing. I also had to find money to pay for my parking of my motor home.

[Graham Adder]

I don't get that thinking either. I came to BC with nearly nothing but a small car thinking there was work for me, that car became a small motor home in the begining of winter and I survived not once screaming at anyone that things didn't work out. I did bits of yard work and some other small jobs that whole winter with no power or heat, my heat was when I was able to take a break in someone's house while on the job and was offered a hot coffee by the more thoughtful ones. That was in 1990, anyone remember how cold it got and how long we had snow on the ground that year?
By spring I had enough saved and a crappy little indoor job so I could rent a small shack on top of an old man's garage in Headly. Ya we don't know how to survive but we do it. Rice and bananas and few other things were my diet for quite some time cos food was a luxury for that time. I bought the odd O Henry bar for an energy boost, energy food wasn't on the market back then. The bananas came only when I could get a ride to town to get them cos my old motor home wasn't quite road worthy so I bought lots and ate them even when they were really ugly and black. Basmati rice is my favorite but couldn't afford that so white was it. I didn't get any help from anyone, didn't ask and didn't die or starve. It was the first time in my life I had to work real hard for every little bit and I felt it but I did it. I had several blankets I bought at second hand stores for a couple bucks and Very few other things besides a book some one would lend me. I am white BTW and garbage bags were curtains on my little windows. Anything I scored was second hand, bought cheap or left at the store.
Let's not forget I had no band member to help me out even with pennies and there was no house leaky or not, nothing.

Cry me a river.
Sounds pretty easy considering you ate bananas at all.
You also had a car.
You were living fat mister.

We all have our heart breaking stories.
You were hardly surviving off the land.
Your story is actually pretty irrelevant.

Got Sympathy?

[Roadster]

Cry you a river? Hardly, see I didn't cry anyone a river I just got past it and that car I Had,,, I bought it before this event, it didn't fall on me off a tree in someone's back yard nor was it given to me. It had to be traded to be a crappy motor home that I could live in, all on my own abilities to survive without losing the shirt on my back too. And yes I agree, We All Have our hard luck stories,,, now you see.

Oh and living fat?! Ha, I was pretty skinny then just so's ya know. Bananas are cheap and a smart food if you have little money and no ability to cook,,, it wasn't a thing of gold, it was survival. Trust me, they get pretty boring after a while, pizza woulda bin nice.

And irrelevant? Why yours is better? We all have hard luck events but we must get past them no matter how bad they look to ourselves or others. Most of us don't get compensated for our hard ships till our great grandchildren show up and have their own, and then they have their own and then their own...

[zookeeper]

Everyone has a hard luck story, whose is worse or anger is not a solution. What I would like to know, that because there are those who take too much, and those who are lazy and the others who can not or will not help themselves (again, for whatever reason is not for me to judge), how could it benefit a single Canadian to cut off an entire race of people? How can we over come our hard luck story and succeed and not recognize it in others? How do we over come the bitterness and anger and pettiness to all become equal when it is those things that are tearing us apart? If one mans loss is another mans gain how do we stand tall on our own two feet when we're kicking each other?

[Roadster]

Everyone has a hard luck story, whose is worse or anger is not a solution. What I would like to know, that because there are those who take too much, and those who are lazy and the others who can not or will not help themselves (again, for whatever reason is not for me to judge), how could it benefit a single Canadian to cut off an entire race of people? How can we over come our hard luck story and succeed and not recognize it in others? How do we over come the bitterness and anger and pettiness to all become equal when it is those things that are tearing us apart? If one mans loss is another mans gain how do we stand tall on our own two feet when we're kicking each other?

So again I say, let's just keep paying them to stay up there on that little piece of land like we pay our prisoner's living to keep them in cells... Or let them people become educated and walk off that land and become Canadians like they should be if we really respected them and cared that they have full lives like they really do desire...


Seriously. Put yourself in the shoes of a native person in Atapsikawat and imagine, cold, 300 houses so not much of a variety of people to become friends with, no new people would move in but maybe a teacher or some professional they employ for some reason... Houses are cold and leaky,,, shopping and movies when? Chinese dinner when? Museums when? Support clubs where needed when? What do they have that allows a full life? We keep talking about history and old news when this is today. They need a new outlook on life and that's why they feel they are suffering,,, suffering is the key word,,, those who do for themselves don't usually suffer anything unless they gamble everything they make or become ill.

[Snman]

Whatever......roll out the tanks, conquer the natives like we should have in the first place. Got sympathy? I don't, because of arrogant Indians, like some posting here.

[zookeeper]

Whatever......roll out the tanks, conquer the natives like we should have in the first place. Got sympathy? I don't, because of arrogant Indians, like some posting here.

Ya, no arrogant white people in here.

so not much of a variety of people to become friends with

This is brilliant from a society that doesn't even know their neighbour 2 doors down, a country that sends millions, perhaps billions, overseas to help people in need.

[Graham Adder]

Whatever......roll out the tanks, conquer the natives like we should have in the first place. Got sympathy? I don't, because of arrogant Indians, like some posting here.

This is such a gem.
You should be proud for speaking so much like a socially re-tarded imbecile. I'm using those words quite literally...not intending them to be taken as loose insults. I mean them.

Nobody here is taking this conversation to such levels as wanting to kill another race.
Your lack of control over your emotionally loose cannon displays about as well as a swastika between the eyes.
You outta be proud.

As for the arrogance?
Who's arrogant here?
Me thinks it would be you and those that correspond in a similar fashion to you.
Speaking out your filthy muck hole only shows that you've only got @#$% to speak.
Save it for the fields potty-mouth...maybe you can grow some corn.

Feel good that you never have to meet this arrogant "indian" in person.
You'd not be pleased with the outcome of our "talks".