New federal medical marijuana regulations

[Smurf]

I have not said anywhere that I believe in these studies. What I am saying is that the information you are using to argue against them is just as flawed. You are 100% correct that that marijuana in the blood does not show impairment. Where your arguments go bad is that they have no idea whether there was enough marijuana in the persons system to impair them or not. They are just as questionable as the original information without that proof, yet you seem to feel they are right. I'll say it again it is somewhere in the middle and no one truly knows where. Common sense does tell us that some of them are impaired.

[LiamHaddock]

I have not said anywhere that I believe in these studies. What I am saying is that the information you are using to argue against them is just as flawed. You are 100% correct that that marijuana in the blood does not show impairment. Where your arguments go bad is that they have no idea whether there was enough marijuana in the persons system to impair them or not. They are just as questionable as the original information without that proof, yet you seem to feel they are right. I'll say it again it is somewhere in the middle and no one truly knows where. Common sense does tell us that some of them are impaired.

well then i guess the whole point discussion is over...

Studies are based just false logic and do not prove uses were impaired or increasing accidents in anyway....
Great that's all I was trying to point out...

Your right I can't prove they were not high at the time of the accident...

More importantly u can't prove they were though....only that they smoked marijuana in last few days/weeks

that's all I was trying to establish... I guess we agree?

[LiamHaddock]

It won't let me edit my last post for some reason, excuse poor spelling. I quickly type on phone and rarely proof read before posting...

the studies don't prove the thc in blood was not from days/weeks before or that the user was/wasn't impaired at the time of the accident or that marijuana did/didn't contribute to the accidents

the whole study is heavily flawed nonsense and provides no new helpful info.

[Smurf]

I think we can probably agree on that.

Now using common sense do you agree that there is a good chance that when there are a number of people in accidents or admitted to the hospital some of them are impaired from marijuana use.

The reason I push this goes back to my days as a safety officer,first responder,first aid instructor,fire fighter, fire fighter trainer trained incident investigator and union rep when I had a lot to do with peoples problems. As soon as someone says or tries to imply that something is safe I start to question it. I know from experience where there is smoke there is usually fire. I can almost guarantee you that if 20 people in accidents smell of alcohol, some of them are impaired. I feel the same about marijuana.

[LiamHaddock]

I think we can probably agree on that.

Now using common sense do you agree that there is a good chance that when there are a number of people in accidents or admitted to the hospital some of them are impaired from marijuana use.

Sure do you not agree people are already smoking marijuana and driving or ending up in the hospital..legalization isn't necessarily going to drastically raise these numbers or instances..it would be interesting if the data actually showed which visits were a result of strictly marijuana use and actually impaired and if those numbers went up?

The reason I push this goes back to my days as a safety officer,first responder,first aid instructor,fire fighter, fire fighter trainer trained incident investigator and union rep when I had a lot to do with peoples problems. As soon as someone says or tries to imply that something is safe I start to question it. I know from experience where there is smoke there is usually fire. I can almost guarantee you that if 20 people in accidents smell of alcohol, some of them are impaired. I feel the same about marijuana.

Feelings and fears are ok...I'm not even dismissing them... im asking you to support them and then being critical of the flawed studies provided.
Increased number of people smoking marijuana will most likely lead to more driving well impaired..
this is a legitimate concern but let's not blow it out of perspective....
Reefer-madness false logic studies which prove absolutely nothing aren't helping....especially when results are cherry picked with flawed logic to find a scary statistic to use...

[Smurf]

LiamHaddock » Yesterday, 11:55 am

Sure do you not agree people are already smoking marijuana and driving or ending up in the hospital..legalization isn't necessarily going to drastically raise these numbers or instances..it would be interesting if the data actually showed which visits were a result of strictly marijuana use and actually impaired and if those numbers went up?


Feelings and fears are ok...I'm not even dismissing them... im asking you to support them and then being critical of the flawed studies provided.
Increased number of people smoking marijuana will most likely lead to more driving well impaired..
this is a legitimate concern but let's not blow it out of perspective....
Reefer-madness false logic studies which prove absolutely nothing aren't helping....especially when results are cherry picked with flawed logic to find a scary statistic to use...

Yes I agree people are already using, driving and ending up in the hospital. It is really nice to see you understand that also, unlike some on here that claim it is harmless or that they work just as safe stoned as they do sober.

However we do probably disagree on what will happen after legalization. I personally believe that use will increase substantially and along with it impaired driving, problems at work and hospital visits and a lot of other things. I do not believe we have come anywhere close to finding out the problems that will be linked to marijuana. I think it will be like cigarettes, alcohol and say Tylenol that not long ago was the safest over the counter pain killer there was that is now apparently going to have a special warning about your liver. A very short time ago Zika virus could only be transmitted by a certain mosquito, suddenly it can be transferred by sexual intercourse and associated activities. I'll say it again, I personally believe we have a lot to find out about marijuana and I don't believe it will all be good.

You and I will probably never agree on this but at least we can agree to disagree. Truthfully I hope I am 100% wrong.

[LiamHaddock]

Yes I agree people are already using, driving and ending up in the hospital. It is really nice to see you understand that also, unlike some on here that claim it is harmless or that they work just as safe stoned as they do sober.

However we do probably disagree on what will happen after legalization. I personally believe that use will increase substantially and along with it impaired driving, problems at work and hospital visits and a lot of other things. I do not believe we have come anywhere close to finding out the problems that will be linked to marijuana. I think it will be like cigarettes, alcohol and say Tylenol that not long ago was the safest over the counter pain killer there was that is now apparently going to have a special warning about your liver. A very short time ago Zika virus could only be transmitted by a certain mosquito, suddenly it can be transferred by sexual intercourse and associated activities. I'll say it again, I personally believe we have a lot to find out about marijuana and I don't believe it will all be good.

You and I will probably never agree on this but at least we can agree to disagree. Truthfully I hope I am 100% wrong.

I agree I'm 100% glad we can have a civil debate and agree to disagree... I respect that you can be critical of your own view point and can see the flaws in some of the studies put forward that are exaggerating the issues or using false logic.

Your right where we don't agree is what will happen after legalization... unfortunately the studies shared out of the usa aren't really helping us at all to get a clear picture.

I hope in time we will have more factual, correct information to acess the actual harms/increases of harms of legalization.

Time ultimately will tell.. I'm always happy to discuss any concerns or issues...I truly am looking for the real facts/data...

I know sometimes it may seems all I'm trying to do is argue or say someones wrong.
That's not the case. I know there is risks to Marijuana and legalization but let's not blow them out of perspective and make sure the studies/info/facts are accurate/not flawed and discuss them in detail...let people make their own fully educated opinions after viewing all the facts and hopefully deciding to research the issue further themselves.

[LiamHaddock]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/canadian-laboratories-step-up-to-offer-pot-safety-testing/article31961854/

Nearly 20 laboratories across Canada have come forward to offer independent testing of marijuana after the federal government changed its laws last month, allowing consumers to screen the product – which is often sold as medicine – for contaminants and potency.

The move comes after concerns were raised that the federal government has watched idly as unregulated marijuana dispensaries proliferated across the country, reaping huge profits in a booming prelegalization market, though some of the products would not meet federal health standards.

An investigation by The Globe and Mail in July showed that one-third of the cannabis samples tested from nine storefront marijuana shops in Toronto would not pass a Health Canada safety test. Three of the nine samples contained high levels of potentially harmful bacteria that were beyond allowable health limits. One sample contained excessive amounts of mould and yeast, which can cause serious lung conditions.

The change now makes lab testing widely available to Canadians who seek it, due to a new exemption from the Controlled Drugs and Substances Act that previously prevented the facilities from possessing any amount of the drug brought in by the public. Anyone with a prescription from a doctor to purchase the drug from a regulated supplier, or who has a federal permit to grow it, can access the labs, provided the person has filled out the appropriate paperwork.

Nice to see public can now have their home grown/non corporate mmpr lp sourced marijuana tested as well!

[LiamHaddock]

http://windsorstar.com/news/local-news/could-canadas-pot-plans-tie-up-border-trade-and-traffic

“It’s an unknown now, but it could have the effect of really slowing down, not just travellers, but truckers, too,” said Stan Korosec, director of security and Canadian government relations for the Detroit International Bridge Co.

“It may thicken the border here,” said Korosec, whose Ambassador Bridge carries a quarter of all merchandise trade between the two countries.

One of the concerns of Korosec and others is that, once Canada starts toking up, those who have consumed pot queuing up at the U.S. border, including American visitors returning home, might trip the alarm system of drug-sniffing dogs and other detection measures deployed by U.S. Customs and Border Patrol.

“I don’t think it’s a huge issue,” said Luc Portelance, president and CEO of CrossPoint Integrated Strategies Inc. and a former president of the Canada Border Services Agency. While “quite neutral” on the topic of marijuana legalization in Canada, Portelance said any “misalignment” between Canadian and American laws will require an effort by border personnel to interpret its handling. That could mean delays.

“But it’s not a showstopper,” said Portelance.

[LiamHaddock]

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/ottawa/legalized-marijuana-lessons-learned-colorado-1.3806432

But nearly three years after legalization in Colorado, he said his thinking changed at each turn.

On almost every measure, whether it was rates of hospitalizations, consumption among teens and adults, or collisions related to marijuana, the pattern was the same: an initial increase, and then long term stabilization with no increase from the rates prior to legalization in January 2014.

"And so to say I wasn't surprised would not be honest," Wolk said. "I have to say I was surprised but I also learned a lot about making sure in these kind of roles, like I'm in, that you park those biases and you stay objective."

"What we're hearing and what we're seeing across the board is that those hospitalizations and those emergency room visits have since leveled off," Wolk said, adding "the only increase trend is coming from folks from outside Colorado who come to Colorado."

He said people who "are inexperienced" or have not been educated about marijuana might not be "familiar enough with products to keep themselves out of trouble."

Wolk said that Canada has an advantage over Colorado's experience, because it's drafting national legislation.

"Many of the challenges related to legalization, from a public safety standpoint, really have to do with the fact that it's legal in Colorado but it's illegal in all of our surrounding states,"

"We know that there's a grey market, if not a black market, for trying to grow legally in Colorado and transport across state lines where it has street value. So I would think that by having a national approach to legalization, it really does help minimize the potential black market impact, and the criminal market and valuation of the street marijuana because you've taken all of that away."

[maryjane48]

lets hope use does go up since it is good for you

[LiamHaddock]

lets hope use does go up since it is good for you

I'd like to see marijuana use go up and alcohol use go down as I think people would be a lot more chill, accepting and understanding but that may not end up happening. Colorado is showing if anything marijuana legalization has helped alcohol sales. I think most of it is because of increased tourism, more people are there to drink and maybe marijuana smokers who used to have to smoke at home or in private are out and about and so they drink as well and marijuana is known to make you thirsy so maybe there just drinking more beer... a lot of maybes but just my thoughts on the article below.

https://www.leafly.com/news/politics/how-have-alcohol-sales-been-impacted-since-cannabis-legalization

"There's definitely some crossover in the two communities of beer drinkers and herb enjoyers … But I don't think people are doubling down in one category or the other."
Alcohol excise taxes have increased at the same rate year over year since Colorado debuted its recreational cannabis market, and industry workers are actually praising legal cannabis for increasing tourism to the state. Considering the fact that Colorado raked in a record $18.6 billion in tourism dollars in 2014, it's no wonder the state's alcohol industry is sitting pretty thanks to the Green Rush.

[LiamHaddock]

https://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2016/10/27/recreational-weed-could-be-a-226b-industry-study.html
In partnership with RIWI Corp., Deloitte surveyed 5,000 Canadians this past summer — including 1,000 identified as recreational marijuana users — and calculated that the base retail market alone would be worth $4.9 billion to $8.7 billion annually.

The ancillary market — growers, infused product makers, testing labs, and security — would increase that to between $12.7 billion to $22.6 billion.

With tourism revenue, business taxes, licence fees and paraphernalia, Deloitte estimates the market will be even greater than $22.6 billion.

Whitmore said the firm has not calculated federal and provincial taxes or determined precisely how many jobs could be created.

“As we look at this recreational space, it could be a significant opportunity for both Canadian businesses and governments in terms of what they have to do,” he said.

Should be great for the economy! Can't wait to see how its regulated and how the whole cannabis scene, tourism, shops, lounges ect are allowed to operate... Hopefully we create a really good vibe/cannabis scene and it will really boost tourism, take profits away from black market and ensure all Canadians have access to top shelf buds!

[Smurf]

According to the latest info it looks like the government will certainly have some fun with this legislation.

There is much more information in the articles than I have posted.

Doctors to give Trudeau an earful for his marijuana legalization plans


Jeff Blackmer, the CMA vice-president of professional affairs, said after the feds announced plans to legalize marijuana, the CMA was asked to collect the views of the profession, so an electronic poll was recently done, eliciting nearly 800 responses. Poll findings include:

• Doctors think it’s a bad idea to have marijuana sold in pharmacies and they want the federal government to ensure the quantity of THC is labelled and even regulated.

• Sixty-five per cent of doctors disagree with mail service being used to distribute non medical marijuana, and 57 per cent disagree with pharmacies being used for distribution. Fifty-six per cent think existing non-health care structures like liquor stores should sell it and 47 per cent think legal storefronts (dispensaries) are suitable for the purpose.

• Doctors are equally split on whether people should be allowed to grow their own non-medical marijuana.

• Asked where people should be allowed to consume non-medical marijuana, 80 per cent said their homes, 36 per cent said designated public places and 43 per cent said wherever tobacco is permitted.

• Forty-five per cent of doctors said Canadians over the age of 21 should be able to buy legal marijuana and 35 per cent said the age should be 18 or 19.

• Seventy-two per cent said government should regulate THC levels in non-medical marijuana.

Dr. Barb Blumenauer of Kamloops said children have required intensive care unit admissions, and mechanical breathing support for comas and seizures from using marijuana. She called for the establishment of a national database to measure hospitalizations.

“It is a misnomer that marijuana is a harmless substance. That is certainly not the case with children,” she said, adding that B.C. has seen pediatric poisoning cases, seizures and comas.

Ottawa obstetrician/gynecologist Jennifer Blake said she can’t recall another drug that has been licensed and legalized with “such little evidence.” She said when the CMA makes its submission to the federal government it should stress the need for quality research and long-term post-market monitoring.

http://vancouversun.com/news/national/d ... galization

Fatal car crashes triple among drivers high on marijuana after legalization in Colorado; double in Washington state


Prime Minister Justin Trudeau’s plan to legalize marijuana should take into account “sobering” U.S. experiences where the first states to legalize the drug have seen big increases in fatal car crashes among cannabis-impaired drivers, according to a B.C. doctors’ group.

Washington State and Colorado started taxing and regulating cannabis in 2012 and the Council on Health Promotion, a section of Doctors of B.C., said vehicle fatality statistics, post-legalization, are “sobering.”

“In Washington State, fatal crashes among drivers who tested positive for marijuana doubled from eight per cent in 2013 to 17 per cent in 2014. In Colorado, the number of drivers in fatal crashes who tested positive for marijuana without other drugs in their system tripled between 2005 and 2014 from 3.4 per cent to 12.1 per cent,” Nanaimo General Hospital emergency room Dr. Chris Rumball said in an opinion piece in the B.C. Medical Journal, which he wrote on behalf of the council.

Indeed, marijuana is the most frequently detected drug in crash-involved drivers, after alcohol. So while the Canadian government intends to legalize recreational use of marijuana in 2017, studies are indicating that road safety concerns must be considered in the consequences, he said. And various levels of governments must find ways to mitigate the risks of driving while impaired by marijuana.

“Canadian discussions around the legalization of marijuana must include a clear-headed assessment regarding the impact of legalization on road safety. We must create a scientifically sound and fair approach … standards and penalties to enforce any new laws,” Rumball said.

http://vancouversun.com/health/local-he ... gton-state

Pot tax would reduce profits, allow black market to thrive: report


The parliamentary budget watchdog says Ottawa stands to generate hundreds of millions of dollars – not billions – from the first year of recreational marijuana sales, and that the black market will continue to bloom if the federal government applies much more than a sales tax on legal pot.

In a report released on Tuesday, the Office of the Parliamentary Budget Officer says sales tax revenue could be as low as $356-million and as high as $959-million, with a likely take of about $618-million based on legalized retail cannabis selling for $9 per gram – in line with current street prices.

Those government revenues will increase in future years for a variety of reasons, says the report, including more consumption and price competition among increasing numbers of licensed producers.

But Ottawa may not be able to tax cannabis in the same way as tobacco without pushing the price well beyond that of illegal pot, the report added.

Assistant budget officer Mostafa Askari, who helped with the report, said that overall “the message is that there really isn’t very much room for revenue over time.”

Predictions of a government pot bonanza in the billions of dollars annually have become common since the Liberal government of Justin Trudeau came to office last year promising full legalization.

A B.C. Liberal Party report in 2013 suggested $4-billion annually in taxes from legalized pot. CIBC World Markets issued a report last January saying federal and provincial taxes could pull in as much as $5-billion a year from legal marijuana. A new report from a Denver-based consulting firm says CIBC over-estimated the potential tax revenues by about 300 per cent.

The government has played down any revenue windfall.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/pol ... e32610788/

I have said from the beginning that the things mentioned here would be a problem and it looks like that is a big possibility.
This is going to be a long hard road to do ity properly. I don't believe the government had any idea what they were getting themselves into.

[Rwede]

I don't believe the government had any idea what they were getting themselves into.

The Liberals really have no idea about anything.

And the people who voted for them are in the same boat.

Grand promises with no idea how to implement them.