Natives set to block all pipelines

[logicalview]

http://www.castanet.net/edition/news-st ... .htm#89126

Sigh...I just wish we could be like Norway...and drill off shore BC, and build all the pipelines we want to sell our oil. Sigh...

[Graham Adder]

not me
I like our relatively pristine coastline
I enjoy our natural environments and migration corridors
I also like the idea of a future for generations to come
that does not include fossil fuels

[logicalview]

not me
I like our relatively pristine coastline
I enjoy our natural environments and migration corridors
I also like the idea of a future for generations to come
that does not include fossil fuels

But wait Graham. Every dyed-in-the-wool die-hard socialist I talk to tells me we need to be "more like Norway". Norway also has:
- a pristine coastline
- natural environments and migration corridors (whatever the hell those are)

AND...they have a huge $44 billion surplus and they generate millions of barrels of oil per day, of which they sell off almost all of it, at top world prices, from wells drilled off-shore. Norway drills in the North Sea, in some of the most hostile drilling environments on earth, and yet maintains their pristine coastline etc. So how come they can do it and we can't? Could it be that we are just cowards? Could that be it?

It's nice that you like the idea of future generations to come not including fossil fuels, maybe instead of dreaming about it, you could invent a new form of energy that future generations could use. Until then, let's be more like Norway. They are true socialists. Let's tell the Natives to stop interfering with the futures of the next generations and to get out of the way. Let's drill and develop and exploit our off-shore oil resources. Let's be like Norway.

[hobbyguy]

But LV, you are singing the praises of a leftist coalition government. Labor Party, Socialist Left Party, and Centre party. Also a country where the government fell over the issue of greenhouse gasses from NG plants. They seem to try for responsible development and responsible use of the profits from those developments.

The first nations alliances that are opposed to the pipeline/tankers in the north seem to be taking a principled stand. That certainly isn't inconsistent with the Haida folks I've met, who are part of one of the alliances.

Their unique legal position is a serious stumbling block to flatlander ambitions to destroy BC for their financial gain.

So Harper sends his high priest of money worship, Joe Oliver (investment banker) out to try and convert them. What does he do? He appoints an "envoy" who loudly proclaims "that he isn't a bag man" (methinks he doth protest too much...).

By and large this becomes an issue and argument between those who worship money and those who believe that money isn't everything. If you are left standing in a pool of toxic goo with bag full of money, what good is that bag full of paper? It will never be able to repair or replace what you have lost.

[Graham Adder]

Norway drills in the North Sea, in some of the most hostile drilling environments on earth, and yet maintains their pristine coastline etc. So how come they can do it and we can't? Could it be that we are just cowards? Could that be it?

It's nice that you like the idea of future generations to come not including fossil fuels, maybe instead of dreaming about it, you could invent a new form of energy that future generations could use. Until then, let's be more like Norway. They are true socialists. Let's tell the Natives to stop interfering with the futures of the next generations and to get out of the way. Let's drill and develop and exploit our off-shore oil resources. Let's be like Norway.

How come they can and we can't?
I'm not sure of the answer.
I'm also not going to believe Norway is as tidy about their raping of natural resources as some might believe. That's not to say I am right. I'm just not so quick to believe that...certainly not a believer enough to support "being more like Norway".

I don't really have to dream about alternative energy sources. They are already here. Big oil and gas keeps that from us through their network of cronies and sheeples that bow to the almighty buck.
I bow to nobody. I bow to the leaf.

If the Natives are the only ones willing to put their sack on the track, then I support them in their actions.
Actions can create more actions.
Inaction does not create nor support more action.

To drill and exploit our natural resources does nothing in way of preserving what we have left for the future.
To drill and exploit before we have a real handle on the big picture is akin to releasing hybrid vehicles before we know how to deal with the batteries when they're spent.
To drill and exploit before we have a handle on the big picture is akin to developing nuclear energy without considering what to do with the waste from that production.

Why should we keep making the same mistakes just because we haven't figured out a better way (which in itself is an arguable topic)?

Until we can guarantee no messy spills...no more polluted rivers and lakes...no more carbon added to the already severely compromised atmosphere...we MUST cease this madness in the name of stewards of this planet.

Anything less is really turning our back on our children, grandchildren, and so on down the rapidly shortening line.

[wonderland]

But wait Graham. Every dyed-in-the-wool die-hard socialist I talk to tells me we need to be "more like Norway". Norway also has:
- a pristine coastline
- natural environments and migration corridors (whatever the hell those are)

AND...they have a huge $44 billion surplus and they generate millions of barrels of oil per day, of which they sell off almost all of it, at top world prices, from wells drilled off-shore. Norway drills in the North Sea, in some of the most hostile drilling environments on earth, and yet maintains their pristine coastline etc. So how come they can do it and we can't? Could it be that we are just cowards? Could that be it?

It's nice that you like the idea of future generations to come not including fossil fuels, maybe instead of dreaming about it, you could invent a new form of energy that future generations could use. Until then, let's be more like Norway. They are true socialists. Let's tell the Natives to stop interfering with the futures of the next generations and to get out of the way. Let's drill and develop and exploit our off-shore oil resources. Let's be like Norway.[/quote]


How about Hemp? Farmers all over Canada and the world could start farming Hemp a product with an endless amount of uses a product that can be farmed in areas of Canada that have a short growing season such as the Prairies ,Hemp is a natural resourse that is being over looked, Harper needs to get his head out of the box imo

[JLives]

Please preview before posting so your quotes are correct.

[SmokeOnTheWater]

- natural environments and migration corridors (whatever the hell those are)

You don't know what those are ? That's odd ..
No point for you trying to understand the natives blocking all pipelines then ..

[logicalview]

But LV, you are singing the praises of a leftist coalition government. Labor Party, Socialist Left Party, and Centre party. Also a country where the government fell over the issue of greenhouse gasses from NG plants. They seem to try for responsible development and responsible use of the profits from those developments.

.

You make a good point Hobbyguy. It is a giant pill to swallow to say that you favour emulating a quasi-communist state that has grabbed on to the AGW fairy-tale with both hands and spent billions "fighting" this mythical problem, but in the bigger picture, I favour copying Norway in every way, warts and silly backward leftist political directions all (including building a whaling fleet like them - ha ha just kidding I love whales) if and only if it also means that:

1) we finally deal once and for all, with our Native issues. Keep the racist comments out of this. I am not advocating screwing over the Natives or anything like that. I mean just DEAL with them finally, and strike a lasting and final accord, such that in the future, any and all economic projects, like pipelines, drilling, mines, development etc. aren't tied up in endless disputes, court cases, squabbles etc. Develop environmental protocols, make the Natives happy that their lands will not be polluted and that they will be fairly compensated, enforce the regulations, and then go. No more squabbling. Everyone is happy.

2) we finally find the courage to drill off shore BC. Enough with this armegedonist bullcrap and hyperbole about "destroying the pristine coast". Somehow Norway drills in the worst conditions on earth and never does any damage to their pristine coastline. So can we. It can be done. It should be done. Enough of the cowards dictating our development policy. Enough fear-mongering. Enough bringing up old history from last century about a drunk bozo on a tanker in Alaska. That was 1989. That was the United States. We're Norway. We don't operate like that. We have high standards. We don't screw up.

So that's it in a nutshell. I hate communism Norway style, but I hate cowardice and bureaucratic nonsense even more. Let's get all Norway on our BC coast, make our Native peoples happy, tell the enviro-weanies to stick it, and fill our coffers with cash, pay off debt, and fund social programs. It's a long road, but a good one.

[logicalview]

I don't really have to dream about alternative energy sources. They are already here. Big oil and gas keeps that from us through their network of cronies and sheeples that bow to the almighty buck.

Since we all know that solar and wind power don't have a hope of replacing oil due to their massive inefficiencies, what alternative energy sources are "already here"? The only one I can think of is uranium, but I still don't know how big oil has kept us from uranium. The only people I see keeping us from more wider use of nuclear power are fear-mongering cowardly fools, but maybe you mean big oil is funding these people somehow? That would be devious, and smart. I never thought about that.

I bow to nobody. I bow to the leaf.

You bow to the flag of Canada? Or to the Toronto Maple Leafs? If so I feel sorry for you, they haven't won a cup since 1967. Otherwise, I don't know what this means.

[hobbyguy]

Offshore drilling, as an extension of pro-pipeline. Well, it is a logical extension if you don't care about nature and the future of BC.

The problem with all of the oil company/pipeline stuff is hubris. They claim to be "state of the art safe" etc. etc., but the "state of the art" doesn't come across so well when you look at Kalamazoo etc.

The latest blow to industry credibility? One company was given permission to drill in the arctic off Alaska. Shell sent two drill rigs. One nearly ran aground and after a Coast Guard inspection regarding safety and environmetal issues- pulled from service for numerous violations. The other ran aground. It too has been cited for safety and environmental failures, and is obviously no longer in service. 0 for 2, not a very good record.

The VP in charge, who with reference to Shell's North Sea experience said that drilling in the Arctic waters would be easy, has resigned. Yup, "piece of cake" drilling in the north Pacific. No problem.

So now Shell is the subject of DOJ investigations over this whole fiasco. http://seattletimes.com/html/nationworld/2020655541_arcticdrillingxml.html

The sad part is, I have more confidence in a company like Shell to do a proper job than I do the likes of Enbridge or Kinder-Morgan. Misplaced confidence.

First Nations should be applauded for standing up for the interests of future generations.

[Graham Adder]

I bow to the leaf.

I don't know what this means.

Yes you do.
Your pants are on fire, Mr. Big Nose.

[Donald G]

I find it rather disconcerting that the Natives intend to block ALL pipelines ... and thus stop the jobs and energy production that at the moment provide a great deal of Canada's enviable economic status. Certainly fossil fuels need to be replaced by renewable resources like that produced by sun, wind and water but in the meantime transporting oil and coal is a necessary part of our present economy ... by ship, rail, truck or pipeline.

There are ways of transporting oil by all of the noted means that are as safe as we can make them and still remain competitive on the world market. For the First Nations people to take the position that they are "set to block ALL pipelines" is, in my opinion, a very short sighted and selfish thing to do ... unless it is for the purpose of insuring that each means of transportation on each project is as safe as reasonably possible. With a fee being negotiated for crossing their PRESENTLY agreed to and occupied lands.

[logicalview]

Yes you do.
Your pants are on fire, Mr. Big Nose.

Sorry. No clue. You like tea? Mr. Big Nose? What are you talking about?

[logicalview]

Offshore drilling, as an extension of pro-pipeline. Well, it is a logical extension if you don't care about nature and the future of BC.

And yet Norway seems to drill off shore at will. Are you saying they just don't care about nature or the future of their country? Or are you just completely unwilling to admit that offshore drilling can be done, safely, just like Norway is doing, but that you are too cowardly to even contemplate it? You just can't say that it is more dangerous to drill offshore in BC than Norway. Or you could, but you'd be lying.

The problem with all of the oil company/pipeline stuff is hubris. They claim to be "state of the art safe" etc. etc., but the "state of the art" doesn't come across so well when you look at Kalamazoo etc.

but that's Kalamazoo. How many leaks have Norway had? Why do you keep using red herrings like "Kalamazoo"? That's the US. We're Canada. We don't have to be like Kalamazoo. We can be like Norway.

The latest blow to industry credibility? One company was given permission to drill in the arctic off Alaska. Shell sent two drill rigs. One nearly ran aground and after a Coast Guard inspection regarding safety and environmetal issues- pulled from service for numerous violations. The other ran aground. It too has been cited for safety and environmental failures, and is obviously no longer in service. 0 for 2, not a very good record.

Once again. That's the US. We're Norway-like. Stop using the US as an example. What about Norway?

The VP in charge, who with reference to Shell's North Sea experience said that drilling in the Arctic waters would be easy, has resigned. Yup, "piece of cake" drilling in the north Pacific. No problem.

a lot easier than drilling in the North Sea, yet Norway does it. Newfoundland does it. So can we. Using the US examples is just a cop-out, and a cowardly one at that.

First Nations should be applauded for standing up for the interests of future generations.

but are they really, or are they just demanding that we as a country finally get off our butts and give them a fair deal. The entire process as it currently stands is a clown show. As soon as any project is announced, the Natives immediately oppose it, no matter what. The Greenies always oppose it, but they aren't important, as they oppose everything, because they think their money for all their social programs grows on trees. They aren't relevant because they don't think. The Natives are different. They deserve to be treated properly and fairly, something we as a country just refuse to do. We need to streamline the process, put in place a system that works for Natives, for the environment, and for the people of Canada, to make it much easier to drill and exploit our natural resources. The current constant fighting, delays, years of "hearings" to placate every nut and whacko with an axe to grind and just plain silliness just don't make any sense. We need to be more like Norway. Much more. And much much more brave.