Train carrying oil exploded: Downtown on fire

[twobits]

"Please advise why the government has not placed a moratorium on the rail transport of crude in light of the obvious failures that resulted in the Lac Megantic tragedy"

Please tell me that even you understand the immediate and dire economic consequences of such an action and how utterly absurd a knee jerk reaction like that would be. From the oil patch to the refineries and everything in between, hundreds of thousands of jobs would be idled instantly. Never mind what would happen to prices at the pumps. Stupid stupid stupid idea and if you don't get a response it will be because it was such a stupid question to begin with that is not worthy of a response.

[hobbyguy]

Of course I realize the impacts. I also realize that massive rail car movement of crude is a very recent phenomenon, and therefore the alternative supply lines still exist, which would quickly be reopened. You overstate the impacts by failing to include that factor.

I also realize that the only thing corporate bad actors respond to is the biggest stick you can find.

[matai]

Should I hold my breath for a response Lisa Raitt?

If you see you're about to lose consciousness, please release it lol.

[twobits]

Of course I realize the impacts. I also realize that massive rail car movement of crude is a very recent phenomenon, and therefore the alternative supply lines still exist, which would quickly be reopened. You overstate the impacts by failing to include that factor.

I also realize that the only thing corporate bad actors respond to is the biggest stick you can find.

What alternative supply lines? Imported oil rather than using or selling our own?

[hobbyguy]

Twobits - It's already mostly imported where rail transport is being used. The crude in the Lac - Megantic disaster came from the US part of the Bakken.

Plus the fundamental question is this: do you value profits over people's lives?

These corporations do exactly that. They knew that the DOT 111 cars were unsafe for the application, and made the conscious decision that it was more profitable to keep using them and pay out damages than to change their practices (especially if you can abuse the bankruptcy laws).

Think about it. If a group of amoral wakadoodles decided to blow up the town of Lac - Megantic with a truckload of ANFO, what would the reaction be? The appropriate response would be to shut them down, go after them with every law enforcement and military agency, and lock them up for the rest of their lives.

This situation is only one step away from that. And they are forced to do what? And who is going to jail? Nope, it's carry on as per usual except for the cosmetic change of not allowing one man crews, and giving the engineer a hard time as a scapegoat.

That says to me that the Harper government cares more about profits for corporations than the lives of citizens, and is therefore abrogating one of the key elements of what a government should do - which is to ensure the safety and security of the citizenry.

[twobits]

Twobits - It's already mostly imported where rail transport is being used.

Source?
And if it is already mostly imported, what are you going to replace it with if you moratorium rail transport. Domestic oil production would plummet if they could not move it by rail. I really believe you have no clue as to how the industry actually works.
And no I do not put peoples lives behind profits. Nice try though pulling that card. Tragic accident yes but the answer is not shutting down tens or hundreds of thousands of jobs and killing a royalty tax stream. It was an accident that came about by a series of events and not a probable outcome anyone could have predicted.

[hobbyguy]

two-bits - That's exactly what you are advocating - putting people's lives at risk every time crude is shipped in DOT 111 cars. They are not safe for the application. The NTSB has stated so. Every time one of these trains passes through a populated area, the risk is very real to repeat Lac-Megantic.

I wonder what sources you rely on for news/information as it has been reported multiple times that the train in question was carrying Bakken crude from North Dakota. Here's one for you: http://www.ask.com/wiki/Lac-M%C3%A9gantic_derailment?o=2801&qsrc=999 The pertinent quote is: "The oil, shipped by World Fuel Services subsidiary Dakota Plains Holdings Incorporated from New Town, North Dakota,[19] originated from the Bakken formation."

Outfits like Irving oil have relied on a variety of sources for years and years. It would amount to little more than an inconvenience and perhaps a bite out of their profits to switch back to other sources. After all, they were only bringing in the Bakken crude because it enhanced their profits. Plus they are already under a virtual moratorium anyway, as the MMA route is closed. Funny, I haven't seen anything about the Irving refinery going broke and shutting down because they can't get it.

This was an absolutely predictable outcome in that the NTSB ruled a long time ago that the DOT 111 cars were unsafe in any kind of derailment. That it happened in Lac-Megantic was not predictable, but it was predictable that somewhere, sometime, this was going to happen. The industry knew that, and decided it was more profitable to roll the dice and pay claims rather than go to safe transport cars.

I have experienced situations where unknown safety problems resulted in an operation being shut down (by WCB) - and always thought it was appropriate. Yup, it hurt profits. Yup, it was an inconvenience to the point of being a complete pain in the b.... Absolutely the right thing to do though.

In the Lac-Megantic case the players knew or ought to have known that their practices were unsafe - and therefore should be shut down to obviate the potential for further loss of life. Their loss of profit or inconvenience? What about the losses of the folks in Lac-Magantic? In the context they deserve to be whacked with the biggest stick available (moratorium), and perhaps that would send a message not only to them, but to operators in similar industries that cleaning up their act is the only route to go.

[jimsenchuk]

Fracking chemicals in spotlight as regulators investigate rail car corrosion and flammability of North Dakota crude

Crude oil shipped by railroad from North Dakota is drawing fresh scrutiny from regulators concerned that the cargo is adding environmental and safety hazards, something that analysts say could raise costs.

The U.S. Federal Railroad Administration is investigating whether chemicals used in hydraulic fracturing are corroding rail tank cars and increasing risks. Separately, three pipeline companies including Enbridge Inc. warned regulators that North Dakota oil with too much hydrogen sulfide, which is toxic and flammable, was reaching terminals and putting workers at risk.

Until last month, safety advocates’ chief worry was spills in derailments. After tanker cars blew up July 6 on a train in Quebec, investigators in Canada are considering whether the composition of the crude, which normally doesn’t explode, may have played a role in the accident that killed 47 people. The oil was from North Dakota’s Bakken shale.

http://business.financialpost.com/2013/ ... =23e5-41ca

[jimsenchuk]

Nearly 5.7 million litres of crude oil spilled out of derailed train cars and leached into the water, soil and air of Lac-Mégantic following the July 6 disaster.

But the Harper government has yet to release any information about the potentially harmful contaminants in that oil and their effect on the environment.

Read more: http://cbc.sh/aJA8KsX

As well, the concentration of arsenic detected on the water's surface is said to have exceeded the government's acceptable standard by 28 times.

Harper defends carcinogens: http://bit.ly/1eJLOQn

[hobbyguy]

The sad part about the H2S and corrosive chemicals possibly having an impact on the Lac-Megantic tragedy is that if the industry had simply complied with the NTSB investigation recommendations and gone to thicker tanks for crash protection, then that would have automatically increased the corrosion allowance. But no, the industry is still fighting the retrofits because it will cost money.

Profits over peoples lives. At one time we used to berate "3rd World" countries for doing that. I guess the lessons of Bhopal haven't really stuck.

[jimsenchuk]

CP ordered to send loads to MM&A

by The Canadian Press - Story: 96944
Aug 22, 2013 / 11:41 am

Canadian Pacific Railway has been ordered by a federal agency to resume the transfer of cargo traffic to Montreal Maine and Atlantic Railway.

Calgary-based CP had expressed concerns about the "fitness" of the insolvent short-haul railroad to safely handle hazardous substances in light of the deadly derailment and crash last month that devastated Lac-Megantic, Que.

But MM&A told the Canadian Transport Agency that it was suffering it irreparable financial harm by CP's boycott and the CTA issued an order late Wednesday that overrides Canadian Pacific's decision.

Canadian Pacific's (TSX:CP) says it is reviewing its legal options.

"While we disagree with this order, we have taken immediate steps to comply," CEO Hunter Harrison said in a news release. "The CTA, as federal regulator, has satisfied itself that MM&A is fit to operate and has adequate insurance to do so."

The rail tankers that derailed in Lac-Megantic — causing a fire that killed 47 deaths, displaced thousands and destroyed the city's core — were carrying crude oil that originated in the U.S. Midwest and carried part of their journey by CP.

MM&A is a short-haul railway that was hired to move the tankers on one leg of a journey between the U.S. Midwest and an Irving refinery in New Brunswick.

CP Rail issued an embargo after the agency withdrew MM&A's certificate of fitness, which suspended its ability to operate. The transportation agency agreed to reinstate the certificate three days later, allowing MM&A to continue to operate until Oct. 1, providing it proves holding adequate insurance.

Canadian National Railway (TSX:CNR) had initially also cut off Montreal Maine & Atlantic from receiving interchange traffic but voluntarily resumed the practice.

A Quebec court overseeing MM&A's creditor protection case is convening Friday morning to decide whether to provide the insurance guarantees that would allow the railway to meet the agency's requirements to regain its operating licence.

Gilles Robillard of the court-appointed monitor Richter Advisory Group urged the Quebec Superior Court judge to approve the request to preserve MM&A's value, maintain employment and avoid economic losses from cutting service to the railway's customers.

"Absent a continuation of its operations, MM&A may determine that the ultimate goal sought by the filing under the CCAA (Companies' Creditors Arrangement Act) is no longer achievable and may decide to file for bankruptcy," he wrote in Richter's first report.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/08/22 ... 96029.html

[steven lloyd]

..., the industry is still fighting the retrofits because it will cost money.

Hey, that money is required for CEO bonuses.
Just ask some of the smart people around here
– messing with this kind of stuff will cripple the economy.

[matai]

Tomorrow at 8:00pm on TVA (Channel 122 Shaw) you'll be able to watch the concert that raised over half a million dollars for Lac Megantic held at the Bell Centre in Montreal last week.

[matai]

Paul McCartney dedicated this song to the people of Lac Megantic when he performed on The Abraham Plains in Quebec City a couple days ago:

[matai]

They also identified a 4 y/o victim this week, and remnants of the remaining 8 unidentified victims have been sent to different laboratories around the world to help with the indentification.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/ ... ified.html