The Senate: Abolish or Tweak?

[Donald G]

As Sir Winston Churchill said, "Democracy is the very worst form of government any country can have ... except for all of the others". Since the UK has a body equal to our Canadian Senate, I am sure that his statement included his sentiments about the Senate.

[steven lloyd]

My faith in the election system we have going is non-existent.

Low voter turnout, first past the post, odd regional borders , very lacking security and investigative capabilities, money trumps all, ect. It is not about "electing the person the people want". Its about keeping rules and systems in place that allow numerical advantages. It's about fear, suppression, anger and propaganda. It's not a room full of people raising their hands to decide a majority. Get away with as much as you can because the ref is hardly ever looking your way.

I recognize that our system is deeply flawed and getting worse. However, every individual who is part of the electorate (active voter or not) shares some responsibility for that. I know we have established systemic conditions in place that work against change and evolution, but evolution – no matter how slow – is inevitable. It’s easy for people to act disempowered, and I understand some of the conditions that encourage people to be that way but we still each need to take some responsibility anyway or nothing will happen. Whichever way whoever is throwing the blame, blaming alone solves nothing and never has. All the little guys like you and me can do (short of entering politics which I have no personal interest in doing) is to continue educating ourselves, try not to fall into the traps of thinking any and all of us do from time to time, and remain as vocal as possible. Electing Senators might not be the absolute perfect way to address the current situation, ...

- but it would sure as hell beat patronage appointments.

[hobbyguy]

I like the notion of electing senators provincially, and not when federal elections are afoot.

The disproportionate nature of the senate provides some balance for the smaller provinces, and despite my reservations about PEI being too small to be a province, I'm ok with that. Some counter to "the tyranny of the majority" is not a bad thing.

Term limits for senators? I'd have to think that roughly 12 yrs would do it. That's long, but the lengthy term would free senators from day-to-day political terms and interference.

The notion of abolishing the senate altogether does not appeal to me. Too many hypothetical cases where "be careful whjat you wish for" applies.

[Crazy Horse]

I think we should have a Senate, after all it is the one defense against a government that given the power the PM has, could theoretically go bonkers. But the Senators should be voted by each Province, from a pool of candidates that are not party members and have been chosen by an all party committee. So a bunch of respected British Columbians that are recognized by both sides of the Legislature are eligible to be elected. Maybe 6 year terms and then new faces come in.

[erinmore3775]

Proposed Senate reforms wouldn't have stopped expenses scandal

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/proposed-senate-reforms-wouldn-t-have-stopped-expenses-scandal-1.2427137

This article puts a different spin on Senate reform. "[i]The reforms the government sent to the Supreme Court of Canada to see if they could be passed without violating the Constitution were about elections for senators and term limits.

There was nothing about changes to how housing or travel expenses are claimed in the government's bill on Senate reform.. Yet it was inappropriate claims, along with loose enforcement of Senate expense rules about those claims, that led to Duffy, Wallin and Brazeau being suspended from the Senate without pay more than a week ago."[/u]

While many people may wish to abolish the senate, I do not believe it can be done without a constitutional rift developing between provinces that could literally tear Canada apart. Most of the provinces who spoke before the Supreme Court were against the amendments suggested by the current government, except for the stipulation around the $4000 property requirement. In 1867 $4000 in property was a considerable amount. It ensured only the elite could sit in the Senate. Today that amount should be increased.

Only the prairie provinces spoke in favor of the amendments. However, none suggested rules to cover Senator expenses that would prevent a repeat a repeat of the misuse of funds by the three disgraced Senators.I for one have no desire to tear our country apart when the following would largely solve the problem:

- complete spending transparency for our MP's and Senators and a $100,000 limit on a expenses, including travel, per year.
- all expenses must be independently audited and the results published.
- no political donations allowed from any non resident citizen (ie: no corporate or union or NGO donations period)
- $5000 dollar maximum on any citizen donation
- each register political party would receive $2 per vote cast ( for their party) in the last relevant election
- no non party election spending allow (therefore no Greenpeace, Fraser Institute or similar organization electioneering allowed)
- Senators appointed by the Governor General a list supplied ONLY from the province needing to fill a vacancy in the Senate (ie: no political interference from the PMO)
- Senate vacancies must be filled within 6 months of being declared.

I am aware that the last two suggestions would require approval from at least 7 provinces representing 50% of Canada's population, but I do believe it would pass. I also believe that a more rigorous control over election spending would benefit the process.

[Donald G]

If a "tweak" is the little leaver that releases the guillotine so that it can fall I am all for "tweaking" all except about 12 members of the senate who would have to be ... (insert here if you know of a system that would remove party politics from the "sober second thought" desired.

[Popeye69]

Senate should be tweaked and NOT done away with. It is the only place to keep a rein on the PM and the PMO when they have a majority. The Senate has done a few good things, but the need their wings clipped.

How is there any reigning in when the PM himself appoints most of them and conservatives are the majority in senate.
We should elect them or it should be abolished.
IMO Canada is a democratic dictatorship as it is. We simply elect a dictator, that's the only freedom we have.

[dg3]

the senate should be replaced by a council of ex-premiers of provinces.
10 members max, 2 from each of 5 region.
regions are bc, north, prairie, ont, que, maritimes
premiers must have served 2 terms
each to be paid $250k per year
if more than 2 available in a region, an election is held at same time as federal election.
all bills passed by gov will be voted on by this council, unanomus vote can veto bill.