Kellogg's closing plant in London Ontario

[logicalview]

A little more locally is the shutdown of Western Star in Kelowna and Consumers Glass in Lavington by American based companies that cost us many good paying jobs.

So what are you saying, that the government should have blocked the sale of Western Star? On what grounds?

[hobbyguy]

The list of this kind of thing, the yanks closing Canadian plants and moving the jobs south (sometimes as far as Mexico) is long and varied. If you go way back, BC used to have a steel mill, and wonder of wonders a plant taking our copper and turning it into copper tubing - both disappeared very shortly after "free" trade came in.

The general notions surrounding "free" trade came in with the thinking of Milton Friedman, whom right wing ideologues view as some sort of saint. Yesterday, I watched Larry Kudlow (a Friedman worshiper), Alan Greenspan (another Friedman worshiper), and a third fellow (forgot his name) discussing the mess that the US government and Fed made of their economy (and in the process ours). Greenspan clearly screwed up by keeping interest rates far too low and blowing the housing bubble out of control, which he compounded by following Friedman's laissez-faire approach toward the Feds responsibilities to regulate the large banks. His response to whether or not he, Greenspan, had screwed up (and Kudlow clearly thought he had) was that Friedman had said his policies were right, and therefore he couldn't have screwed up. Kudlow, showing discomfort because he thought that Greenspan had indeed screwed up badly, mumbled around and sort of agreed with Greenspan, because to say otherwise would be to admit that Friedman was not a saint, and that some of his ideas were and are flawed.

It is not coincidental that, post war, until Friedman's notions came to the political fore with Reagan/Thatcher, median family incomes went up in unison with GDP. Exactly at that period of time, with the introduction of "free" trade, median family incomes decoupled from GDP growth. Nothing is ever "free", and the "free" trade policy price continues to be paid by average families.

Of course, the Friedman/Right wing ideologues do not see that they are destroying the very economies that created prosperity. It is well documented that the US and Canada have demand problems, but we continue along the very paths that caused the demand problem in the first place - which is declining real income for the average family that are the customers of these corporations. Henry Ford had one thing really right, if you don't pay your workers enough to be able to afford your products - they won't sell. And by corollary: if you don't employ enough of them - your market will be too small.

We need to get out of this mess, and it looks like Ottawa is no help at the moment, as the cons are simply doubling down on more of the same.

[Atomoa]

It's Christy's fault that Kellogg's is shutting down an Ontario plant.

No, the OP is saying that crazy left wing high electricity prices closed the plant.

Our rates are going up 28%, thanks to Christy's big fight to keep hydro rates low for British Columbia families, who is more of the OP's political preference.

[logicalview]

The list of this kind of thing, the yanks closing Canadian plants and moving the jobs south (sometimes as far as Mexico) is long and varied. .

HG - I know you aren't going to let this whole "free trade is to blame whenever a plant moves out of Canada" thesis, but in the case of Kelloggs at least it is just plain ridiculous. Blaming free trade for Kelloggs closing their plant in 2013 is as silly as when enviro-nuts dredge up the Exxon Valdez as an excuse to never use tankers to transport oil. So much has changed in terms of technology and world map since 1989, the year of the Valdez spill and the year that free trade was first introduced, that to continue to use these events as excuses to either not do something, or in the case of FT, as a scapegoat for so many other variables and factors is just plain silly.

It is no coincidence, none, zero, that Kelloggs is moving their plant now. If Free Trade was so bad and destructive, they would have moved years ago. But they are moving now, right when power prices in Ontario have hit 5 times the amount of neighbouring jurisdictions. The fact that you lefties are willfully ignoring other factors leads me to believe the following:

1. You don't understand basic business principles, such as the amount of money coming in has to exceed the amount going out, or you are out of business. Of course, as leftists, you wouldn't understand this
2. You don't understand basic economic principles
3. You are doing all you can to distract and say "nothing to see here" regarding Ontario's disastrous energy policies, as you still want to maintain the illusion that "green energy" can actually function without mass economic destruction, when in fact it is quite obvious that this is not the case.

Green energy isn't just to blame for high energy costs. There is also massive waste in union labour costs in our crown corporations that are responsible for our energy generation. Just look at this story today, out of Ontario, of course...

Ex-Hydro One worker tells of crew's lazy summer

TORONTO - It’s a shocking series of photographs showing Hydro One workers getting paid top dollar to lounge around by a lake and even take a nap.

There is no line for that on customers’ hydro bills but it’s potentially jolting explanation of the industry’s financial mess and skyrocketing rates.

Imagine the freedom, as one former Hydro One worker described, of being on a permanent working vacation up in Muskoka earlier this year with very little emphasis on the work and heavy emphasis on the pay.

In fact, he said, many spend the days working out in rural and remote parts of Ontario sleeping on Hydro One marked boats or docks or making a nice day of it on the lake while the ratepayers paid their wages.

No wonder your hydro bill could be going up 42% in the next five years.

This comes on the heels of Ontario’s auditor general pointing out off-the-charts salaries at Ontario Power Generation to a point where a red-faced energy minister decided to fire three top executives.

So while the people responsible for generating the electricity in the province have been called out for their overspending, those who deliver the power don’t appear to be immune to abusing your money, either.

Hydro One said it will investigate the photos.

The former worker said they should.

“I worked for Hydro One for six years and I could have done that work in a year and a half,” said the disgruntled ex-employee.

The worker said he is upset because he wanted to work but neither the union nor management desired his keen approach.

They shunned him “because I was outspoken and liked to work.”

He said he doesn’t like to see highly-paid staff snoozing on the job or even comically changing the logo on a truck from “Hydro One” to “Hydro No.”

“Slacking off,” is how the former employee described it. “Some guys make $60,000 a year, some make near $100,000 but we would only work eight months a year — plus room and board, tax free.”

And each day was more about leisure than toil and sweat, he said.

“Guys loved boat work — no one could sneak up on you,” said the insider, adding he worked four 10-hour days with two half-hour breaks and a one-hour lunch.

“With an hour of travel time to get to the work site,” he said, a worker starts labouring at 10:45 and then lunch.

“I then have to sharpen a saw and fuel up so we start at 1:30 p.m., take a break at 3 p.m. ... until 3:30 p.m and then start packing up to head in.”

The former crew member said he was “lucky if you work three hours a day out of 10.”

But they get paid for all 10.

Another insider said the reason why guys are sleeping on boats and docks is because they actually have “nothing to do” since a secondary, non-full-time employee crew has been hired to go along with them.

“It’s called overflow work — they bring in temps to help with the full-time staff but these labourers end up doing a bulk of the work. Some guys work hard and some don’t, like anywhere” he said. “Some of the guys on the crew can be making $50 an hour but the temporary workers make more like $23. It’s just the accepted practice and been like this for years. There is a budget and as long as that budget doesn’t get burned, this is what happens.”

Power Workers Association spokesman Donald Wallace said the union would require more information before commenting.

But Hydro One communications officer Nancy Shaddick asked for “information that would help us investigate including address, date, time and any further information on what work was being completed.”

She added she “cannot confirm the context or that the workers in the photo are Hydro One employees working on company time,” Shaddick said. “There is no policy specifically on what employees do on their lunch break. However Hydro One’s Code of Business Conduct governs all employees.”

In a link she sent over Hydro One president and CEO Carmine Marcello wrote “every Hydro One employee is accountable to comply not only with the words on the page, but also with the spirit of the Code.”

The veteran of Hydro One labour crews said the code of some co-workers was to make the most money possible for the least amount of work.

And get in some sleep while enjoying the great outdoors, too.

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/12/11/ex ... work-ethic

I know the usual union lovers will chime in with the typical excuses, and deflections, including how management of these producers make so much money, but when you look at the waste of spending money on thousands of unproductive workers, what is being wasted on upper management is a drop in the bucket.

High energy prices are to blame for the economic melt-down in Ontario, and that's just the way it is. It has to change.

[bob vernon]

We have to get Canadian wages down to the level of China and India so we can compete with them. And those ridiculous benefits like medical, dental, and pharmacy plans have to go. And let hydro rates go up to weed out the non-competitive businesses. BC has it right by subsidizing mining companies with cheap hydro and raising the domestic rate.

Strip the welfare state and let the free enterprise system do the job that God intended. Survival of the fittest.

[southernfrau]

I googled this yesterday and it read that the plant is shutting down but the workers are being moved to another plant they have in Ontario, and the production will go on. Cost effective closing as it was too expensive to run the one plant and instead consolidated it. All the plants overseas and in the US are being reworked to be more efficient also and some of the production there will also change.

[logicalview]

I googled this yesterday and it read that the plant is shutting down but the workers are being moved to another plant they have in Ontario, and the production will go on. Cost effective closing as it was too expensive to run the one plant and instead consolidated it. All the plants overseas and in the US are being reworked to be more efficient also and some of the production there will also change.

It must be FREE TRADE!!! to blame!!!!!

[logicalview]

We have to get Canadian wages down to the level of China and India so we can compete with them.

Why. That makes no sense. We have a skilled labour force and the advantage of geography. Not sure why we would need to lower our wages that low, pretty bad idea.

And those ridiculous benefits like medical, dental, and pharmacy plans have to go.

Not sure why.

And let hydro rates go up to weed out the non-competitive businesses.

Actually, the hydro rates in Ontario are weeding out ALL businesses.

BC has it right by subsidizing mining companies with cheap hydro and raising the domestic rate.

Where is this happening.

Strip the welfare state and let the free enterprise system do the job that God intended. Survival of the fittest.

Once again, not a good idea. But on the other hand, the "welfare state" needs to be monitored for too much entitlement isn't good either.

[Glacier]

What will I do without my Special K?

Has anyone else noticed that Special K doesn't taste as good as it used to? I swear that they changed their formula about 10 years ago because it tastes more like Rice Krispies now.

[Captain Awesome]

Has anyone else noticed that Special K doesn't taste as good as it used to? I swear that they changed their formula about 10 years ago because it tastes more like Rice Krispies now.

To be honest, I only buy no-name brand cereal and pretend it's the more expensive kind.

Shame on you for making me admit it publicly.

[steven lloyd]

To be honest, I only buy no-name brand cereal and pretend it's the more expensive kind.

It's the same stuff made at the same place. It's just packaged in the cheap boxes by non-union labour ;o)

[Captain Awesome]

It's the same stuff made at the same place. It's just packaged in the cheap boxes by non-union labour ;o)

I'm the reason for the diminishing middle class! Oh, the humanity...

[Prestige Mike]

It's certainly connected to electricity and energy pricing in Ontario. If Ontario doesn't want to be competitive with its electricity policy then more businesses are going to leave. It's just that simple.

I'm sure that's part of the equation. Also more regulations, taxes and higher wages will send companies overseas. What Canada has to offer to manufacturers is political and economic stability and mass consumerism.

If Kellogg's and other companies want to save money and leave our country, our only play is to stop buying their products. What they save in regulation, taxes, wages, and energy will be lost in the amount of products sold.

Now the hard part. How do you get people to boycott companies that don't support their country?