The truth about missing aboriginal woman.

[driveangry]

[When I think of all this and put it together with all the successful Native Canadians that I know it makes me sick to hear all the crying about how hard some are done by. It is time to get going and look after themselves. Take care of their own future and not always want someone to do it for them. If they had all done this years ago like many have they would not have to worry about someone else messing up their life. Start being the proud people they once were. I believe this would also cure the missing women problem or at least help it a great deal.

This post sums it up quite well but not in the way you may think. It shows the lack of knowledge of what is really going on and a perception that the FN can't get over the past.

Where do you get the idea that FN wants someone to take care of them ? Again a lack of knowledge. They have been trying and succeeding on their own for years but DIA controls EVERYTHING.

You say " Start being the proud people they once were." They are and always have been a proud people. How else would they have survived this long with everything that they had to deal with and continue dealing with.

Just because your people, Ken7 people , my people, and others that immigrated here assimilated to become Canadian citizens, does NOT mean that the First Nation people have to or need to. Look around you, is your " white " world perfect ??

[driveangry]

The FN people who want to keep the reserve system are the ones dependent upon it. The FN people who get out and make their own way, often opine that the FN people would be better off without it.
Not true, the government created the reserves, it's not the system they want, it's their hereditary right to their land.
[/color]By keeping the reserve system they are creating for themselves a separate class. Originally it was so that they could keep their old ways and traditions. How many of those old ways are kept, and how many live like regular Canadians with internet and indoor plumbing?
Again not true, society has created different classes of people, upper, middle, lower, china towns, little india, etc.. They were created to remove them from land that the settlers wanted and were most often given lands that were of no use for anything. A lot of their culture and traditions have been lost forever because of residential schools. I posted links above in previous posts.
I think they should be assimilated, like the rest of us. Our cultures are taught at home, and/or in independent schools we pay for. All of my Great-Grandparents were immigrants of one sort or another. We have family traditions we keep, family history we hand down.
With all due respect Lady tehMa, to be like us is an arrogant way of thinking. Their culture and traditions, what's left, is also taught at home and Band schools, community meetings, etc.
We aren't perfect, that's for sure, but the stats that speak of the harm being done to aboriginal women would seem to support the idea that assimilation could be good for them. We're not the American "melting pot". We're Multicultural Canada. The main thing keeping people from the FN on the reserves (from what I have heard) are the handouts. There are some who understand the value of hard work - but it seems that ethic is not taught on many reserves. What is being taught is "they OWE us". That latter is a harmful ideal. It harms the holder far more than the object of their ire.

Like I have posted before, a lack of knowledge of what really is going on. WHAT ARE THESE HANDOUTS ??
No ethics ? Really ?? Who is first to speak up when big corp. want to destroy land, water, air, etc..
This " they owe us" comes from racists trying to start trouble or when big corp. want to damage or steal land.

[FreeRights]

This post sums it up quite well but not in the way you may think. It shows the lack of knowledge of what is really going on and a perception that the FN can't get over the past.

Where do you get the idea that FN wants someone to take care of them ? Again a lack of knowledge. They have been trying and succeeding on their own for years but DIA controls EVERYTHING.

You say " Start being the proud people they once were." They are and always have been a proud people. How else would they have survived this long with everything that they had to deal with and continue dealing with.

Just because your people, Ken7 people , my people, and others that immigrated here assimilated to become Canadian citizens, does NOT mean that the First Nation people have to or need to. Look around you, is your " white " world perfect ??

Please clarify for me, then, if they don't want help, why do they continue to fail to join society? I don't know if it's a disinterest or unwillingness, but whats for sure is that even with the welfare that they receive, is being shown to not be making any difference.

I have met people who immigrated here from places like Iraq and Iran where the governments and police in those countries committed atrocities to these people and their families in their current lifetime and for some reason, many of these people have been able to really make something of themselves despite the hardships and despite receiving absolutely no handouts.

[FreeRights]

[
Like I have posted before, a lack of knowledge of what really is going on. WHAT ARE THESE HANDOUTS ??
No ethics ? Really ?? Who is first to speak up when big corp. want to destroy land, water, air, etc..
This " they owe us" comes from racists trying to start trouble or when big corp. want to damage or steal land.

What are the handouts? Their bands were given land to govern and tax. Between corporations building on the land given to them, and the millions of dollars that the government pays to the band, and hiring "equity" that requires corporations to hold a certain percentage of aboriginal employees, these are all handouts that nobody else receives. If anybody is being discriminated against due to race, it certainly isn't the first nations.

[the truth]

10/10 please do not ask too many smart questions lol

[wanderingman]

let me remind all : don't drink and get drunk :don't be promiscuous: don't walk home on dark road drunk or sober
get yourself educated its all free : leave your parents if there abusive or violence

= less dead and or missing women

[driveangry]

Please clarify for me, then, if they don't want help, why do they continue to fail to join society? I don't know if it's a disinterest or unwillingness, but whats for sure is that even with the welfare that they receive, is being shown to not be making any difference.

I have met people who immigrated here from places like Iraq and Iran where the governments and police in those countries committed atrocities to these people and their families in their current lifetime and for some reason, many of these people have been able to really make something of themselves despite the hardships and despite receiving absolutely no handouts.

Fail to join society ?? Not sure exactly what you mean. Many Bands have businesses for everyone to shop at. Because of the leases to these businesses they are able to lower prices which in turn force other off reserve business to do same. Many FN work along side of non FN daily. If you mean why don't they leave their homes and families just to be around other non FN and away from family? Really ?

You seem be under the impression that all FN are on welfare. Yes some are, the elderly, handicapped, some unemployed. So are a lot of "white" people and immigrants. I didn't know "welfare " was just for white people.

A quick google search shows what immigrants receive for hand outs, even I was surprised how much help they get.

[driveangry]

What are the handouts? Their bands were given land to govern and tax. Between corporations building on the land given to them, and the millions of dollars that the government pays to the band, and hiring "equity" that requires corporations to hold a certain percentage of aboriginal employees, these are all handouts that nobody else receives. If anybody is being discriminated against due to race, it certainly isn't the first nations.

Do you have a link for Bands given land to govern and tax ?? Would really like to read it. I am aware of NONE.

Reserve land wasn't given to them, it was theirs already, or they were relocated when their land was taken. Big box stores can lease land from Bands and/or CP holders, just like they can lease land off reserve.

Interesting that you have a problem with businesses that have a percentage of FN workers, do you have the same problem when the same businesses have to hire a percentage of female, handicapped, and minority workers ??

[FreeRights]

Fail to join society ?? Not sure exactly what you mean. Many Bands have businesses for everyone to shop at. Because of the leases to these businesses they are able to lower prices which in turn force other off reserve business to do same. Many FN work along side of non FN daily. If you mean why don't they leave their homes and families just to be around other non FN and away from family? Really ?

You seem be under the impression that all FN are on welfare. Yes some are, the elderly, handicapped, some unemployed. So are a lot of "white" people and immigrants. I didn't know "welfare " was just for white people.

A quick google search shows what immigrants receive for hand outs, even I was surprised how much help they get.

Not all FN are on welfare, but a disproportionate amount are. Not all FN are in prison, but a disproportionate amount are. By failing to join society, I mean at the very least, they they collectively aren't able to thrive like other races do, especially with the handouts given.

Do you have a link for Bands given land to govern and tax ?? Would really like to read it. I am aware of NONE.

Reserve land wasn't given to them, it was theirs already, or they were relocated when their land was taken. Big box stores can lease land from Bands and/or CP holders, just like they can lease land off reserve.

Then I'm referring to reserve land. I don't agree that bands should be given any land at all, let alone prime land like the Westbank First Nation has. The amount of funds that they receive from the stores on that land, plus what the bands receive from the government, should be more than enough to make sure each band member is looked after.

Did you miss the news last year where they listed how outrageously paid many chiefs are in Canada? While at the same time their band members are suffering in poverty and abuse? If they want to govern their own land, they should be solely responsible for their peoples well-being and safety, not the government.

Interesting that you have a problem with businesses that have a percentage of FN workers, do you have the same problem when the same businesses have to hire a percentage of female, handicapped, and minority workers ??

Yes, I do have a problem with that. I don't have an issue with businesses that happen to have a diverse workplace, but especially back in the 2003-2007 period, many - including the government - were hiring based on race to keep diversity up rather than based on merit. That is the ultimate discrimination, to hire based on race. I'm supportive to hiring anybody based solely on merit, regardless what their racial background is.

[driveangry]

10/10 please do not ask too many smart questions lol

There is no such thing as a too smart question, I applaud her for asking and respect her opinion and especially her willing to learn and listen. Just because I don't agree with everything she says doesn't mean we can't have an intelligent discussion. Unlike some other posters.

[driveangry]

Not all FN are on welfare, but a disproportionate amount are. Not all FN are in prison, but a disproportionate amount are. By failing to join society, I mean at the very least, they they collectively aren't able to thrive like other races do, especially with the handouts given.
Again with the handouts, What are these handouts you keep referring too ?

Then I'm referring to reserve land. I don't agree that bands should be given any land at all, let alone prime land like the Westbank First Nation has. The amount of funds that they receive from the stores on that land, plus what the bands receive from the government, should be more than enough to make sure each band member is looked after.
So you approve of the taking, stealing, of land of FN by the government ?? Westbank FN are on just a small portion of what was their territorial lands for thousands of years and you want them removed. Why, so that some whites can get rich from it ??

So which is it, do you want them to become a part of society, contributing to the economy, participating in capitalism, becoming self sufficient or do you want them to sit and collect money from the government. You are confusing me. Besides, Westbank FN is now a self governing nation, their money comes from taxation, just like your government.
Did you miss the news last year where they listed how outrageously paid many chiefs are in Canada? While at the same time their band members are suffering in poverty and abuse? If they want to govern their own land, they should be solely responsible for their peoples well-being and safety, not the government.
Corruption is everywhere, FN is not immune from it, they learned from your government. As little as 8 years ago the Band in my area, the chief didn't get a pay check, councilors received under 10k a year. There are retired MP's collecting up to 1 mil. a year for a pension from tax payers.
Yes, I do have a problem with that. I don't have an issue with businesses that happen to have a diverse workplace, but especially back in the 2003-2007 period, many - including the government - were hiring based on race to keep diversity up rather than based on merit. That is the ultimate discrimination, to hire based on race. I'm supportive to hiring anybody based solely on merit, regardless what their racial background is.

That we can agree on. That being said, I have no problem with a business starting on a reserve that hires FN people.

[wanderingman]

the title is QUOTE:The truth about missing aboriginal woman.
SO??? what does your post

"That we can agree on. That being said, I have no problem with a business starting on a reserve that hires FN people.

have to do with anything here?

[driveangry]

[quote="wanderingman"]the title is QUOTE:The truth about missing aboriginal woman.



Yes we got off topic, does it matter ?? All these FN threads are started for the same reason, promoting hatred, a place for trolls to spread lies and misinform.

[Smurf]

Driveangry wrote:

This post sums it up quite well but not in the way you may think. It shows the lack of knowledge of what is really going on and a perception that the FN can't get over the past.

Where do you get the idea that FN wants someone to take care of them ? Again a lack of knowledge. They have been trying and succeeding on their own for years but DIA controls EVERYTHING.

You say " Start being the proud people they once were." They are and always have been a proud people. How else would they have survived this long with everything that they had to deal with and continue dealing with.

Just because your people, Ken7 people , my people, and others that immigrated here assimilated to become Canadian citizens, does NOT mean that the First Nation people have to or need to. Look around you, is your " white " world perfect ??

You know nothing about what my knowledge is. Where do you get all your supposed knowledge.

When I worked in the North in a number of different projects and provinces I had a great deal to do with the local First Nations people. As I have said before as a safety officer, union representative and tradesman I worked with them all the time. I was trained to help them assimilate to the life style, work etc.. I also had to train our other workers in what to expect from them. Such things as not coming to work on time, or not at all for days. It was a difference in their culture we had to accept. Can you name anyone else who would be accepted like that. When we started to train them as tradesman they were all given free tools while anyone else had to supply their own. Many companies would loan new employees money to buy tools on payroll deductions, but no one else got them free. Do you think that is fair?????

I could go on for pages and really don't want to talk about many of the problems but I can tell you for sure that most of their problems were self caused. Most had no interest in changing. They wanted us to change and look after them. That is not the way it goes on large work sites. They were given every chance in the world to succeed, much more than anyone else and they failed at a high rate.

I actually worked with management and bands to try help them, but in many cases it was never going to happen. They wanted the big pay but not the work that went with it. Having said that we did get many very good employees, many of whom are still working. However their success rate was very low compared to any other group including Temporary Foreign Workers most of whom could not even speak English.

Most of the successful ones I know say that the nations as a whole would be much better if reserves were gone and they started to depend on themselves instead of the government. I am sure getting off the reserves and into society and becoming self sufficient would cause a huge drop in missing women. The change in life style as they became more independent would help them in their everyday lives. I saw it happen many many times. They have to take a serious part in getting themselves out of the problems they are having. Just like an alcoholic or drug addict, no one else or no amount of money can do it for them. In most cases the free money does more harm. That goes not only for first nations but all people. You have to feel self worth to suceed, but first you have to be truly looking for it.

[maryjane48]

There is no such thing as a too smart question, I applaud her for asking and respect her opinion and especially her willing to learn and listen. Just because I don't agree with everything she says doesn't mean we can't have an intelligent discussion. Unlike some other posters.

debating bigots is a waste of time, dont waste your breath , we both know the real story and that is good enough . it took me to do research , because a fair amount i did not know, now i do and it changed my opinion, because when i was younger i was , against first nations, but the beauty of learning is learning , and harper isnt dumb, he has to balance what is right , and pandering to the neo con base, which the opening up the books was all about, pandering to the clueless base