When Police Use Force

[fvkasm2x]

*removed*

[Treblehook]

Good grief... is there not one thread where this ill-informed, one tracked mind won't bring up Greg Matters or the airport taser case?

[Ken7]

Good grief... is there not one thread where this ill-informed, one tracked mind won't bring up Greg Matters or the airport taser case?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlKH4qNyOug

That post reminds me of this You tube track. Sadly I didn't think it would be long for the idiots to side track the thread as it was too deep for them to understand and of course they can't understand.

"Just shoot him in the ankle, then he won't run at you and kill you!!"

[Ken7]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8ZaLH92V4g


It is important to watch the video first, then read text below.
It's short but you will catch it.

Watch The Video BEFORE You Read the Story! Pay Attention!



This video is of actual Detectives attempting to stop a CRIMINAL in Chicago.
This Video was taken by a Police Officer Videographer who, was also in harm's way.
WATCH the Video First... Two or Three Times if You Want...
(and) THEN Read TheText Below...
DON'T READ UNTIL YOU WATCH THE VIDEO!
You may need to watch this one several times.
Please remember these cops acted in real time....
THIS PERSON DOES GET SHOT BY THE DETECTIVES.
THIS IS FOR REAL. DO NOT scroll down and read until you see this 8 sec. video.

WHAT DID YOU SEE???? Officers ordered the suspect to put the assault rifle down, and that is what he is doing, Right? it appears he is complying and then they shoot him!!!

OMG, he is shot! Is that what you saw? Do you want to know what it is like to work the streets as a cop, and what risks our Officers face daily? Watch the video again... Watch the suspect's right hand while he places the rifle down with his left hand. What you don't see by facing this Criminal face to face, but the Officer behind the suspect does see, is the suspect pulling a hidden handgun from his rear pants, with his right hand. {back-up yells "Gun"
before firing}

Watch as the bad guy goes down..... the handgun is still in his right hand. This is a reminder... What you think you see at does not always tell the truth.

Watch it again, and learn! NOW, pass this on to EVERYONE on your email list, so they can do the same. It's time for Mr. and Mrs. Citizen as well as the Media have a better understanding of why people REALLY get shot and WHY our Officers are always in Jeopardy. Think I would rather try to ride a bull for 8 seconds, how about you?

[the truth]

edged weapons are so dangerous that the rcmp will not even deploy a service dog, canine member, to subdue a wielder of one. rather they will choose to execute someone with an edged weapon.

YOU HATE COPS we get it

[Hassel99]

edged weapons are so dangerous that the rcmp will not even deploy a service dog, canine member, to subdue a wielder of one. rather they will choose to execute someone with an edged weapon.

Your use of the word "Execute" gives us valuable insight into your personality. You might be a lost cause. I hope I am wrong.

[hozzle]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8ZaLH92V4g


It is important to watch the video first, then read text below.
It's short but you will catch it.

Watch The Video BEFORE You Read the Story! Pay Attention!



This video is of actual Detectives attempting to stop a CRIMINAL in Chicago.
This Video was taken by a Police Officer Videographer who, was also in harm's way.
WATCH the Video First... Two or Three Times if You Want...
(and) THEN Read TheText Below...
DON'T READ UNTIL YOU WATCH THE VIDEO!
You may need to watch this one several times.
Please remember these cops acted in real time....
THIS PERSON DOES GET SHOT BY THE DETECTIVES.
THIS IS FOR REAL. DO NOT scroll down and read until you see this 8 sec. video.

WHAT DID YOU SEE???? Officers ordered the suspect to put the assault rifle down, and that is what he is doing, Right? it appears he is complying and then they shoot him!!!

OMG, he is shot! Is that what you saw? Do you want to know what it is like to work the streets as a cop, and what risks our Officers face daily? Watch the video again... Watch the suspect's right hand while he places the rifle down with his left hand. What you don't see by facing this Criminal face to face, but the Officer behind the suspect does see, is the suspect pulling a hidden handgun from his rear pants, with his right hand. {back-up yells "Gun"
before firing}

Watch as the bad guy goes down..... the handgun is still in his right hand. This is a reminder... What you think you see at does not always tell the truth.

Watch it again, and learn! NOW, pass this on to EVERYONE on your email list, so they can do the same. It's time for Mr. and Mrs. Citizen as well as the Media have a better understanding of why people REALLY get shot and WHY our Officers are always in Jeopardy. Think I would rather try to ride a bull for 8 seconds, how about you?

Let me be the devil's advocate or defence lawyer in this particular case - I could say the suspect was complying with the officers orders to put the gun down and was simply reaching for the hand gun to put it down? I mean you have to touch it to put it down right?
I know... I'm being silly but it's hard to determine what really went on by just viewing 8 seconds of a situation that may have been part of a more convoluted/chaotic 10min, 20min, or perhaps 2hr senario of who knows what??

I have this use of force video that shows me why some folks out there are asking for better training for officers. Go to 3:30 of the video to see why the comply or else mentality becomes almost maniacal.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/12/watc ... y-conduct/

[Treblehook]

I guess to ask someone who has no experience, to come to grips with the reality of the situation [depicted in the video where the suspect is shot while reaching for a second gun] is perhaps asking too much. Some reflection on the situation as it was depicted, would lead most people to the inescapable conclusion that the "suspect" was a dangerous criminal, armed in public for some unlawful purpose. Only a village idiot, having been ordered to put the rifle down, would reach around to his back and attempt to retrieve a handgun. Anyone, totally inexperienced in contact with the police, would be smarter than to do that. The act of reaching for that firearm necessitated the officer shooting the suspect, since it would only take a fraction of a second for the man to pull the weapon out and fire at the cop. I think the guy deserved to get shot!!!! As to the need for better training for the police... well, that might be true in some cases, but generally speaking we need to move away from this tendency to make excuses for scumbags who insist on carrying guns, committing violent crimes and so on. If they weren't doing what they were doing, they wouldn't find themselves in the situation in the first place. The reality is if you present a armed threat to the police or the community, you are liable to get yourself shot. Why is that so hard to understand?

[wanderingman]

The reality is if you present a armed threat to the police or the community, you are liable to get yourself shot. Why is that so hard to understand?

There was a time way back where cops were real men and not wimps and women.Letting women into the RCMP to do actually real world dangerous police work was really like public enemy#1
Real good cops back then always seemed to be abl;e to deal with situations where the perp was not a criminal and was having some personal issues.
Nowadays they just shoot them all and lie about it,then we have a hearing and they lie at the hearings and then all is well
by the way armed with what. A gun that's loaded and aimed at a officer? or a box cutter, stick, small hatchet.knife or the one I really love like in Vernon a few years ago a nail clipper.

[the truth]

without criminals there are no cops, think on that for awhile

[hozzle]

I guess to ask someone who has no experience, to come to grips with the reality of the situation [depicted in the video where the suspect is shot while reaching for a second gun] is perhaps asking too much. Some reflection on the situation as it was depicted, would lead most people to the inescapable conclusion that the "suspect" was a dangerous criminal, armed in public for some unlawful purpose. Only a village idiot, having been ordered to put the rifle down, would reach around to his back and attempt to retrieve a handgun. Anyone, totally inexperienced in contact with the police, would be smarter than to do that. The act of reaching for that firearm necessitated the officer shooting the suspect, since it would only take a fraction of a second for the man to pull the weapon out and fire at the cop. I think the guy deserved to get shot!!!! As to the need for better training for the police... well, that might be true in some cases, but generally speaking we need to move away from this tendency to make excuses for scumbags who insist on carrying guns, committing violent crimes and so on. If they weren't doing what they were doing, they wouldn't find themselves in the situation in the first place. The reality is if you present a armed threat to the police or the community, you are liable to get yourself shot. Why is that so hard to understand?

I agree totally about the scumbags with guns should be dealt with in the manner presented in Ken7's 8 sec vid link, but unfortunately there are situations like in the OP vid where officer training on approach and assessment is way too aggressive, almost to the point of instigating an elevated response based on human nature.

For example the situation with the 12 yr old waiving an air pistol may be that "village idiot" "inexperience in contact with police" doesn't deserve a trip to the morgue. The way that cop car entered the danger zone would give a war vet flashbacks, the officer on the passenger side running to the back of the car was placed there by his partner forcing him to run to the back of the vehicle, slipped and yelled, which in turn prompted the officer at the front to think his partner got shot... so the rest is history.

I come off as being a perfect know-it-all, but believe me if someone like Michael Brown started pounding my head and I had my Desert Eagle with me I'd probably empty the mag right there BUT I probably wouldn't have allowed that proximity to begin with. It would also be nice if more officers were members of IPSC maybe they would be more confident with their abilities in the field and less likely to shoot first and ask questions later.

So I can't totally agree with blaming all village idiots to comply or die if there is an opportunity to approach with force tailored to the circumstances (I got that from the Department of Justice regarding Citizens arrest - http://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/rp-pr/othe ... wyntk.html)

"The Truth" is that the world is more than just one liners to simply treat it as two dimensional is advertising to others that you are the village idiot and luckily you have not wondered behind a 3 dot set :)

[FreeRights]

There was a time way back where cops were real men and not wimps and women.Letting women into the RCMP to do actually real world dangerous police work was really like public enemy#1
Real good cops back then always seemed to be abl;e to deal with situations where the perp was not a criminal and was having some personal issues.
Nowadays they just shoot them all and lie about it,then we have a hearing and they lie at the hearings and then all is well
by the way armed with what. A gun that's loaded and aimed at a officer? or a box cutter, stick, small hatchet.knife or the one I really love like in Vernon a few years ago a nail clipper.

I think that "back is the day" was less glorious than you seem to think it was.

I don't think that its the introduction of women in the police force that is resulting in more force events, but rather the introduction of easily obtained dangerous weapons. You couldn't get a military grade rifle on the streets 50 years ago, but now you can get everything. With change, police use of force tactics - rightfully, would have been adjusted to meet the new threat.

If a person is just having "personal issues," then it's extremely unlikely that the person would get shot. You seem to have intentionally missed the part where these people "with personal issues" may become a direct threat to the police officer, and as a result, is shot.

[Treblehook]

You are quite right hozzle, and I will readily admit to having oversimplified the situation; but, did so merely to make the point that so many of these situations end up the way they do because of the actions of the criminal in the first instance. They so very often contribute to their own demise by their stupidity and through confronting the police with the threat of violence. There certainly are instances where the police recognize the opportunity to negotiate with armed suspects, and there are a lot more critical incidents resolved that way, than end in gunfire. The media don't find those negotiated incidents nearly as sensational to cover, so the public at large is not so aware of this fact. However, when a weapon is produced with no forewarning [as it were], most would agree that the dynamics are entirely different. I cannot disagree with your remarks about the two officers rolling up on the "armed suspect" who turned out to be a twelve year old boy with a replica gun or something. Their approach was a tactical nightmare and created a more dangerous situation for the suspect and the officers. Finally, many things have changed on our streets in recent years. Most of those changes have not been good news for people in law enforcement. Not too many years ago, a rowdy trouble maker was usually a drunk or perhaps someone with anger management problems, etc. Today, rowdy irrational behavior is often a direct consequence of drug use. There are several popular drugs of abuse out there that result in people having the strength of someone three times their size. Some suffer from extreme paranoia and don't feel any physical pain. Their muddled brains don't comprehend simple direction from the police. Give that person an edged weapon or even a baseball bat or length of wood, and they present a very real threat to anyone trying to deal with them. It is a different and much more dangerous world out there for the police today!!!

[Ken7]

I think that "back is the day" was less glorious than you seem to think it was.

I don't think that its the introduction of women in the police force that is resulting in more force events, but rather the introduction of easily obtained dangerous weapons. You couldn't get a military grade rifle on the streets 50 years ago, but now you can get everything. With change, police use of force tactics - rightfully, would have been adjusted to meet the new threat.

If a person is just having "personal issues," then it's extremely unlikely that the person would get shot. You seem to have intentionally missed the part where these people "with personal issues" may become a direct threat to the police officer, and as a result, is shot.

50 years ago, people had respect for themselves and for others. There were weapons available but people did no want to kill each other. Todays society has no respect for themselves, their parents or anyone with authority.

I think that is the change. Here is a great video, remove race and just think how any youth turns bad if raised without!

http://www.cnsnews.com/video/national/o ... ce-problem

[westbankkid]

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/09/03/898661/-Rookie-Cop-shoots-Dididaht-Master-Wood-Carver-4-times-killing-him#

you are disgusting.

It's idiots like you that make a Police Officers job all the more difficult. Wake up and smell the coffee. This isn't the 50s, it's 2014 and there are too many loose cannons on the streets.