Anyone heard of "Gladue" factors?

[Smurf]

Lakevixen I have told this story before, probably more than once, but I'll tell you again. One of my good friends is a very obvious, proud, first nation, male, electrician whom I worked with. He had worked construction, maintenance etc. in all four western provinces. I once asked him ( he was about 40 years old) if he had ever seen racism or felt he had been discriminated against. He thought for a moment and replied " no never, but I have never looked for it". That says a lot. His whole family are very successful and not surprisingly they all have the same attitude. They are from a northern Manitoba reserve with no more chance than anyone else, other than they worked hard to get where they are.

[eMeM]

and yet they still going to jail in high numbers , psst your sides still winning, nothing be mad about , infact natives going to jail is on the rise,

MY side?  Yikes. I express concerns about what appears to me to be a glaring example of inequality and you want to nit pick about "sides"?  Sides?  You want to cherry pick stats and determine that "MY" side is winning?  Frankly, I'm offended. Offended and shocked.  Similar to many on this forum and others that call this place home I have been friends with, related to and immersed in the culture of the local Natives. I honestly take offense when you spout off this "pick a side" type *bleep*. This isn't about picking sides. This is a question of equality in the eyes in the law. That's my issue. My issue IS NOT about picking a damn side. The sooner EVERYONE (particularly you, LakeVixen) understands that - the better. 

lol get a grip  the misinformed person that said its not fair brought up the race issue, im just saying, that the facts prove it has no bearing on first nations not doing jail time .and to smurf , were u beat up  by first nation person in school?

Well I hate to disagree with you lest I be branded a racist or some other inflammatory term but the facts DO seem to prove that there is a different set of guidelines when doling out punishment to first nations as opposed to everyone else. So to break that down with regard to your last comment quoted above...

"the facts prove it has no bearing on first nations doing jail time..."

The answer is in my original post. Go back and read it again. Here I paraphrase "R vs Gladue suggests that natives should be given special consideration when considering SENTENCING because of certain factors i.e. *bleep* upbringing, etc, yada yada..."
The point is that when determining an offender's sentence the judge is now required to make special arrangements because the offender may have had a roughy go at life.  If that has "NO BEARING ON FIRST NATIONS DOING JAIL TIME" then I'll eat my shorts. It absolutely has bearing. That's the entire point of the damn "law" and IMO it's absolute BS.  That is not racist, that is an example of favoritism and has no place in a fair and just society.  
 

[Smurf]

What makes me mad is there are many people of other races who grow up with those same problems and they do not get any preferential treatment. I do not believe they should. The background can be looked at, but the judge should not be forced to change his decision because of it. It should be his decision based on the evidence in each case. Also it is up to people to work hard to change their lives, themselves, their lifestyle. It is not up to everyone else to babysit them. As I said in previous posts I have seen it done many times. It is not an excuse.

[maryjane48]

lol facts say firest nations going to jail in higher numbers than ever before, the fact you do not understand the why judges look at these factors tells the rest of all we need to know , want it to change? do not vote for harper is a hint

[mexi cali]

You need to stop drinking before you post. Ad, if more natives than ever are going to jail, maybe they too should smarten the heck up.

[the truth]

lol facts say firest nations going to jail in higher numbers than ever before, the fact you do not understand the why judges look at these factors tells the rest of all we need to know , want it to change? do not vote for harper is a hint

lol now its harpers fault for natives going to jail lol lol lol, every person on this planet is there own person, typicall native thinking you have blame everyone else except yourself

[maryjane48]

i never been to jail lol , the fact you couldn't connect harper and first nations mistrust of our govt. tells me i'm debating below me :P

[mexi cali]

Truth would win in a spell off though.

And there is no below bottom.

This and other topics like it could make for some real serious debate but too many are mired in myopia.

[Ken7]

lol facts say firest nations going to jail in higher numbers than ever before, the fact you do not understand the why judges look at these factors tells the rest of all we need to know , want it to change? do not vote for harper is a hint

Have you ever sat and thought why this is??? Maybe start by making Chiefs accountable and responsible for their people.

I don't think you are pointing out the correct Government.

[Ken7]

lol now its harpers fault for natives going to jail lol lol lol, every person on this planet is there own person, typicall native thinking you have blame everyone else except yourself

Government is darned if they do and darned if they don't.

That is just the way it is, if they can't care for their own children and they are taken away that isn't right. That should never happen.

But when we don't then they get incarcerated, again that's prejudice, they only arrest and charge us...again it is the Governments fault for not providing and poverty.

Enough already, accept responsibility and parent up!

[the truth]

what ever happened to this saying I always hear native people say-IT TAKES A VILLAGE TO RAISE A CHILD-
if that is so the villages are rotton, cause the kids are not growing up on the right side of the tracks

[steven lloyd]

if that is so the villages are rotton, ...

Yes, many of the villages are rotten, even toxic, and not a place where most people would want to grow up where the chances are tenfold you would grow up abused (physically, emotionally, even sexually), tenfold the chance you would be alcoholic or drug-addicted by age ten. How did these villages get so toxic? Why do some remain so toxic? Why don't they just pick themselves up by their bootstraps and make something of themselves? Good questions. Given the information that is available on the subject I wonder how some who find it so easy to presume and so easy judge can be so ignorant.

First Nations people have long suffered a legacy of systemic discrimination through economic and social deprivation, substance abuse and a cycle of violence across generations. Residential schools systematically undermined Aboriginal culture across Canada and disrupted families for generations, severing the ties through which Aboriginal culture is taught and sustained, and contributing to a general loss of language and culture. Because they were removed from their families, many students grew up without experiencing a nurturing family life and without the knowledge and skills to raise their own families. The devastating effects of the residential schools are far-reaching and continue to have significant impact on Aboriginal communities. Because the government’s and the churches’ intent was to eradicate all aspects of Aboriginal culture in these young people and interrupt its transmission from one generation to the next, the residential school system is commonly considered a form of cultural genocide.

The term residential schools refers to an extensive school system set up by the Canadian government and administered by churches that had the nominal objective of educating Aboriginal children but also the more damaging and equally explicit objectives of indoctrinating them into Euro-Canadian and Christian ways of living and assimilating them into mainstream Canadian society. The residential school system operated from the 1880s into the closing decades of the 20th century. The system forcibly separated children from their families for extended periods of time and forbade them to acknowledge their Aboriginal heritage and culture or to speak their own languages. Children were severely punished if these, among other, strict rules were broken. Former students of residential schools have spoken of horrendous abuse at the hands of residential school staff: physical, sexual, emotional, and psychological. Residential schools provided Aboriginal students with an inferior education, often only up to grade five, that focused on training students for manual labour in agriculture, light industry such as woodworking, and domestic work such as laundry work and sewing.

The purpose of the residential schools was to eliminate all aspects of Aboriginal culture. Students had their hair cut short, they were dressed in uniforms, and their days were strictly regimented by timetables. Boys and girls were kept separate, and even siblings rarely interacted, further weakening family ties. Chief Bobby Joseph of the Indian Residential School Survivors Society recalls that he had no idea how to interact with girls and never even got to know his own sister “beyond a mere wave in the dining room.” In addition, students were strictly forbidden to speak their languages—even though many children knew no other—or to practice Aboriginal customs or traditions. Violations of these rules were severely punished.

Abuse at the schools was widespread: emotional and psychological abuse was constant, physical abuse was meted out as punishment, and sexual abuse was also common. Survivors recall being beaten and strapped; some students were shackled to their beds; some had needles shoved in their tongues for speaking their native languages. These abuses, along with overcrowding, poor sanitation, and severely inadequate food and health care, resulted in a shockingly high death toll. In 1907, government medical inspector P.H. Bryce reported that 24 percent of previously healthy Aboriginal children across Canada were dying in residential schools. This figure does not include children who died at home, where they were frequently sent when critically ill. Bryce reported that anywhere from 47 percent (on the Peigan Reserve in Alberta) to 75 percent (from File Hills Boarding School in Saskatchewan) of students discharged from residential schools died shortly after returning home.

In addition to unhealthy conditions and corporal punishment, children were frequently assaulted, raped, or threatened by staff or other students. During the 2005 sentencing of Arthur Plint, a dorm supervisor at the Port Alberni Indian Residential School convicted of 16 counts of indecent assault, B.C. Supreme Court Justice Douglas Hogarth called Plint a “sexual terrorist.” Hogarth stated, “As far as the victims were concerned, the Indian residential school system was nothing more than institutionalized pedophilia.”

The extent to which Department of Indian Affairs and church officials knew of these abuses has been debated. However, the Royal Commission of Aboriginal Peoples and Dr John Milloy, among others, concluded that church and state officials were fully aware of the abuses and tragedies at the schools. Some inspectors and officials at the time expressed alarm at the horrifying death rates, yet those who spoke out and called for reform were generally met with silence and lack of support. The Department of Indian Affairs would promise to improve the schools, but the deplorable conditions persisted.

Some former students have fond memories of their time at residential schools, and certainly some of the priests and nuns who ran the schools treated the students as best they could given the circumstances. But even these “good” experiences occurred within a system aimed at destroying Aboriginal cultures and assimilating Aboriginal students.

The residential school system is viewed by much of the Canadian public as part of a distant past, disassociated from today’s events. In many ways, this is a misconception. The last residential school did not close its doors until 1986. Many of the leaders, teachers, parents, and grandparents of today’s Aboriginal communities are residential school survivors. There is, in addition, an intergenerational effect: many descendents of residential school survivors share the same burdens as their ancestors even if they did not attend the schools themselves. These include transmitted personal trauma and compromised family systems, as well as the loss in Aboriginal communities of language, culture, and the teaching of tradition from one generation to another.

According to the Manitoba Justice Institute, residential schools laid the foundation for the epidemic we see today of domestic abuse and violence against Aboriginal women and children. Generations of children have grown up without a nurturing family life. As adults, many of them lack adequate parenting skills and, having only experienced abuse, in turn abuse their children and family members. The high incidence of domestic violence among Aboriginal families results in many broken homes, perpetuating the cycle of abuse and dysfunction over generations.

Many observers have argued that the sense of worthlessness that was instilled in students by the residential school system contributed to extremely low self-esteem. This has manifested itself in self-abuse, resulting in high rates of alcoholism, substance abuse, and suicide. Among First Nations people aged 10 to 44, suicide and self-inflicted injury is the number one cause of death, responsible for almost 40 percent of mortalities. First Nations women attempt suicide eight times more often than other Canadian women, and First Nations men attempt suicide five times more often than other Canadian men. Some communities experience what have been called suicide epidemics.

Many Aboriginal children have grown up feeling that they do not belong in “either world”: they are neither truly Aboriginal nor part of the dominant society. They struggle to fit in but face discrimination from both societies, which makes it difficult to obtain education and skills. The result is poverty for many Aboriginal people. In addition, the residential schools and other negative experiences with state-sponsored education have fostered mistrust of education in general, making it difficult for Aboriginal communities and individuals to break the cycle of poverty.

It is clear that the schools have been, arguably, the most damaging of the many elements of Canada’s colonization of this land’s original peoples and, as their consequences still affect the lives of Aboriginal people today, they remain so.
—John S. Milloy, A National Crime

[Ken7]

Yes, many of the villages are rotten, even toxic, and not a place where most people would want to grow up where the chances are tenfold you would grow up abused (physically, emotionally, even sexually), tenfold the chance you would be alcoholic or drug-addicted by age ten. How did these villages get so toxic? Why do some remain so toxic? Why don't they just pick themselves up by their bootstraps and make something of themselves? Good questions. Given the information that is available on the subject I wonder how some who find it so easy to presume and so easy judge can be so ignorant.

b]First Nations people have long suffered a legacy of systemic discrimination through economic and social deprivation, substance abuse and a cycle of violence across generations[/b].

It is a interesting summary of all the bad that went on for many years.

Many other ethnic groups could also lay down and cry the same, the Chinese, the Ukrainians, Germans and the list goes on. What a promised land they migrated to as promised by the Canadian Government, and it was not. Oh, unfulfilled promises which they could not walk away from.

What did they do, they picked themselves up and made Canada what it is today!

We could pick through each paragraph and present a argument, although I won't spend the time. As for cultures, abuse and poverty it is a lot of their very own doing today.

What we should be asking is what have their own people done to stop this way or life or reoccurring life style of poverty and substance abuse? Who should be responsible, every time the "white man" tries to help they are condemned for their actions?

As I see it today, many of the problems upon the reserves are self serving. Poverty is the misappropriation of funding, the only ones receiving are family, relatives and those in the inner circle. The remainder, live in the shacks, they have little or no money as there is none left. There are many who are deprived of what Treaty Rights the Government supplies funding for, such as education and housing.

The child abuse, which for GOD sakes do not intervene because that is their culture is only creating the end result which is the evil cycle of sexual abuse amongst themselves and missing aboriginal youths. It is creating angry and unhappy youth who have no family core, they break away by joining Criminal Gangs and leave the reserve only to end up with more alcohol and drug issues becoming involved in Criminal activities which ultimately end them in jail or the penitentiary.

Possibly it is time to have all reserves broken up, intergrade the aboriginal people into society and spread them as thin as you can into the Cities across Canada. Give each of them a cash settlement and a house. Then they too can fit in if that is their wish. Let them work for their monies and pay their share of Federal taxes. Let them educate their children and pay for it as the rest of Canadians do. Will this work, do they have the drive to do it? It may take many years to help them see their future, although as I've seen it welfare or social aid as they politely say is one ugly cycle and the cycle is one hard one to break!

[the truth]

yup 100percent correct

[maryjane48]

Possibly it is time to have all reserves broken up, intergrade the aboriginal people into society and spread them as thin as you can into the Cities across Canada. Give each of them a cash settlement and a house. Then they too can fit in if that is their wish. Let them work for their monies and pay their share of Federal taxes. Let them educate their children and pay for it as the rest of Canadians do. Will this work, do they have the drive to do it? It may take many years to help them see their future, although as I've seen it welfare or social aid as they politely say is one ugly cycle and the cycle is one hard one to break!

otherwise known as ethnic cleansing