Microsoft: Temp. Foreign Worker Exemption in BC

[maryjane48]

the sad thing is here in canada most of our fellow canucks wont care , where as in the usa, they would care and not allow it .

[twobits]

the sad thing is here in canada most of our fellow canucks wont care , where as in the usa, they would care and not allow it .

In the USA, they don't need a temp worker program. There they just skip the paperwork and wade across the Rio Grande.

The Broccoli you ate this week was a result of the unofficial US TFW program.

[WTTG]

From the north, it looks like they can just wade through the Microsoft training program in Vancouver

Here`s the story from Microsoft News--maybe 'just the top' was 'harvested' from the 'CBC video crop' through the 'official-exemption' TFW program in Canada.

http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/offbeat/microsoft-gets-temporary-foreign-worker-exemption/vp-BBgLHb1

This bit takes off from where MSN ended their version of the story.

And from the OP as well as the Huffingtonpost:

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2014/12/13/microsoft-foreign-workers-canada_n_6319244.html

U.S. immigration 'a factor'

Microsoft Canada did not immediately respond to questions about the deal.

But in an interview earlier this year with Bloomberg Businessweek, Karen Jones, Microsoft’s deputy general counsel, said the deal will allow Microsoft to bypass stricter U.S. rules on visas for foreign workers.

"The U.S. laws clearly did not meet our needs. We have to look to other places," she told the wire service. She went on to say Microsoft didn’t choose to expand in Vancouver "purely for immigration purposes, but immigration is a factor."

The source said that means the company will take advantage of rules governing intra-company transfers, which require employees to work for at least one year at a company subsidiary before being transferred to the U.S. He says the result will be a net disadvantage for Canada.

"So we're not getting any long-term benefit here — we're just a turnstile."

Hasn't the US accused Canada of being some kind of 'sieve' before?

[WTTG]

Aaaah, maybe it's the Government pulled the 'bait and switch'. Until further information comes out, maybe this is how Microsoft got tied up with CIC: They hit a snag under the new rules.

Henry J. Chang`s Canada-Us Immigration Blog

http://www.americanlaw.com/immigrationblog/?tag=international-mobility-program

The International Mobility Program

. . .

Under the new structure, employers hiring through the International Mobility Program will be required to submit the job offer and other relevant information to CIC. . . .

[WTTG]

We had a little chuckle about this story from the States.

Especially at the parts where Microsoft Vancouver and the ‘Canadian’ advantage are mentioned; how older US workers are ‘fat and lazy’ (we're not); and a suggestion that the US Government should keep their old-farts up to speed rather than allow companies to bring in lower paid young-guns from other countries--hear, hear, Canada should, too.

Also of interest, maybe a tie-in to the CBC and Huffpost articles where they warn some of the Microsoft TFW Vancouver grads might end up working in the States. So may we now speculate Vancouver might be a Microsoft devised way to bypass the US’s apparently troublesome H-1B system? If it doesn't get blocked, will other companies follow? Maybe the Okanagan should get its butt in gear on this opportunity—call Christie—or maybe Kelowna already has an in with its new tech building going up. To heck with the bringing in the TFWs, upgrade us old-farts there.

Pittsburg Post-Gazette

H-1B work visa full of uncertainties for immigrants
December 16, 2014 12:07 AM
http://www.post-gazette.com/local/city/2014/12/16/H-1B-work-visa-full-of-uncertainties-for-immigrants/stories/201412160004
By Mark Roth / Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
. . .
Mr. Wadhwa, who holds appointments at Stanford and Duke universities, said the H-1B visa caps are “causing other countries to benefit. You go around the rest of the world, and entrepreneurship is booming, in India, China and Brazil. Many of those entrepreneurs are returnees from the United States. We’ve been spreading democracy and capitalism by sending all these people trained over here back to their home countries, which is good for those countries, but not so much for us.”
The limits also spur U.S. firms to expand their operations in other countries. One of the best known examples is Microsoft’s software engineering center in suburban Vancouver, British Columbia. It’s stocked with employees the company wanted to hire in the U.S., but could not get an H-1B visa for.
“I don’t think people realize that when you have a business, it has to be based on some kind of predictability,” said the National Foundation’s Mr. Anderson, “and when people aren’t able to hire the people they want to hire, it encourages them to expand outside the U.S.”
. . .
One of the most vociferous is Norm Matloff, a computer science professor at the University of California-Davis.
He has argued that bringing in thousands of lesser paid H-1B employees has thrown middle-aged computer programmers out of work. In one 2003 study he did, he found that the employment rate for computer science graduates working as programmers fell from 57 percent five years out of college to just 19 percent 20 years after graduation, while the employment rate in their field for civil engineers 20 years after graduation was still 52 percent.
“The tech industry argues that only the young people have the latest skills,” Mr. Matloff said, “and that the older people are fat and lazy and complacent. That’s a false argument.
. . .
If middle-aged computer programmers are losing jobs because their skills are out of date, added Michael Malone, an innovation columnist for the Wall Street Journal, the onus should be on the government. “How much do we devote to retraining older engineers? I think we must take care of citizens who were once skilled and have been left behind.” . . .

[WTTG]

We’re still kinda miffed at the notion (above), although it seems to be an American notion, that older tech workers are ‘fat and lazy,’ and letting their ‘skills get out of date.’

One of us old-fart Canadians spent over three thousand dollars in 2010 to upgrade his online communications skills and immediately landed a fifty thousand dollar contract with a budget to spend a half a million dollars over two years to develop several new applications.

It would be a bonus for him to land an ‘earn while you learn’ job for a similar paycheque, and we bet he’s not alone.

[Smurf]

Initiative will usually get you there but a helping hand along the way never hurts. This looks like a good helping hand. Hopefully some Canadians get to participate. Too bad our government wouldn't step up and see to it.

[bob vernon]

The temporary foreign worker program is a scam. Just corrupt. First they pay the workers peanuts. Then they skim a few dollars per hour off them to pay the foreign recruiter. Then the foreign recruiters put some $$$ into a numbered offshore bank account to pay off the folks in Ottawa who choose which workers to approve.

There are 330,000 temporary foreign workers in Canada. At only $3 dollars a day skimmed off each worker by the foreign recruiters, that's a million dollars a day flowing into somebody's pocket. Maybe even more than that. If it smells like corruption, it probably is corruption. If you create a situation for corruption to develop, don't be surprised if it does.

[maryjane48]

The temporary foreign worker program is a scam. Just corrupt. First they pay the workers peanuts. Then they skim a few dollars per hour off them to pay the foreign recruiter. Then the foreign recruiters put some $$$ into a numbered offshore bank account to pay off the folks in Ottawa who choose which workers to approve.

There are 330,000 temporary foreign workers in Canada. At only $3 dollars a day skimmed off each worker by the foreign recruiters, that's a million dollars a day flowing into somebody's pocket. Maybe even more than that. If it smells like corruption, it probably is corruption. If you create a situation for corruption to develop, don't be surprised if it does.

perfectly said, and by that definition, canada is in the slave trade

[the truth]

The temporary foreign worker program is a scam. Just corrupt. First they pay the workers peanuts. Then they skim a few dollars per hour off them to pay the foreign recruiter. Then the foreign recruiters put some $$$ into a numbered offshore bank account to pay off the folks in Ottawa who choose which workers to approve.

There are 330,000 temporary foreign workers in Canada. At only $3 dollars a day skimmed off each worker by the foreign recruiters, that's a million dollars a day flowing into somebody's pocket. Maybe even more than that. If it smells like corruption, it probably is corruption. If you create a situation for corruption to develop, don't be surprised if it does.

you got it bob,great post

[WTTG]

Well, how about revisiting and sending this letter along to the Government.

A number of Castanetters worked hard to contributed to it, including lakevixen, Smurf, twobits, and would you believe it, the two famous opponents hobbyguy and The Green Barbarian on the same page with one another.

From this previous thread, http://forums.castanet.net/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=56216

Fellow Castanetters, I and many others on this thread perceive that Canada has a problem with its Temporary Foreign Worker (TFW) program. Consequently, we have come out with ideas on how to improve our perception of the TFW system as well as to improve the general employment situation in our country. Perhaps our country needs to reconsider how it values work and then throw support towards realigning those values.

For instance, Castanetters, the last time that you got a fast food burger, did you thank your server for showing up at work? And did you thank your fast food location manager for having a worker there to serve you? Well if you did then pat yourself on the back because the fast food industry has probably turned out to be one of the backbones in our country: Simply since it has become a valuable time saver for Canada’s workers, students, retires, families, and even the people who might be taking a much earned holiday. Therefore, maybe the fast food industry should be treated as an essential service to Canadians, just as we should value all jobs in Canada as being essential to the welfare of our country.

That’s why you might want to consider and contribute to our ideas towards changing the way Employment Canada (as in an online search term that leads to Services Canada) does business in our country. Employment Canada (EC) should ensure every Canadian who needs a job is first in line for every job that’s available now and in the future. In other words, EC should strive to change Canada’s employment culture. And to do that, it should wind down the prevalence of the Temporary Foreign Worker program while it replaces it with a stronger domestic employer-employee program, as well as with better immigration policies towards attracting and keeping the workers we need in Canada.

For example, concerning Canada's domestic employment policy, no matter where you live in Canada, when you need a job you should be made available for work anywhere this country. Your qualifications should be recorded and matched to those required by employers and vice versa similarly to today’s online dating systems, and then you should be quickly whisked off to the prom.

Moreover, if you don’t have online access to EC’s services then you should be able to go to a conveniently located EC office anywhere in this country and meet with your own personal councillor. If you don’t have access to transportation; EC should be able to serve you over the phone. If you don’t have either; EC should come to your place with coffee. And if you’re on welfare or drawing Employment Insurance; EC should automatically register you in their database and show up at your door on a regular basis with a warm bag of burgers to keep your spirits up while they help you find work. Their aim should be to serve you until you are happily and productively employed.

Also, if there is no work available for you in your area, but you don’t want to relocate for a job, then EC should provide you with adequate incentives to commute or move. And if there is work in your area, but you’re not qualified to perform it, then they should help you get qualified.

Seasonal workers? EC should marry you to jobs anywhere in Canada for the alternative seasons, and you should retain full benefits the same as if you’re working year around.

However, suppose there’s a hiccup when you apply for a job that EC has recommended and you somehow don’t get hired. Well, EC should find out why and then help you make sure it doesn't happen again. And if it turns out the employer thought you were overqualified, EC should help the employer hire you and then cover the employer’s expenses to hire and train a new worker for the job when you move on. As well, EC should keep an eye out for a more suitable job for you while you’re with you temporary employer, and then make sure you get full credit for contributing to the welfare of our country while you work overqualified for now, and then after, when you fill the position for which you are qualified.

But what if you happen to get fired from a job? Again, EC should find out why, and if you need remediation they should help you get that. Also, if EC finds the employer needs staff management training on how to hire and retain staff, EC should have that available. All around, EC should work on ways to help improve negotiations and relations in the workplace—their aim should be to help the employees and the employers to reduce turnover.

But then what if you get laid off at work? Once more, EC should find out why. And if it’s just temporary, they should help you find another job to tide you over. But if layoffs are anticipated because the employer wants to offshore the work, EC should help the employer make the adjustments they need to keep you in your job, and then EC should help them keep up with global demands so they can stay in Canada. EC should do that even if it means helping the employer get new equipment for employees to operate. Always, EC’s first priority should be for you to retain your present job at home. Still, it could turn out your employer needs to axe you and automate your work as a way to stay in business. Then EC should make sure they’re able to automate as a means towards keeping them as our good corporate criticizes. No matter what happens, EC should always be there to help employees and employers when the employment landscape changes.

Want to get some experience working abroad? EC should help you with that, too, by making temporary job swapping agreements with other countries (similar and in addition to the present Working Holiday Program). And then they should help to make it easier for all parties to adapt to world standards.

Want to win contracts to provide temporary services to our Governments? Well, EC should ensure the Government Request for Proposals systems are closed to bidders from outside the country until EC is certain the skills to provide those services can’t be found in Canada.

Also, many people may like to have full access to an earn-while-you learn and / or apprenticeship program. For that, EC should make sure educators and employers have incentives to help you out.

And what about employers who need to make a fast first date? Well, if EC doesn't have someone available in Canada to go out with you right away then they should have ways to help you quickly train unskilled Canadian workers to become productive while you employ them. But still, EC should have the Temporary Foreign Worker program around for a while as stop-gap measure to use when all else fails.

So, from now on, EC should ensure the Temporary Foreign Worker program is used only as a last resort, and EC should be the ones to set you up with an out-of-town date according to the training, qualifications, job requirements, and the standardized contract for your industry. Then they should treat both employees and employers like gold for the short time they’ll be in the system. EC should improve the program’s communication and transparency features as well as facilitate information and culture exchanges between Canadian workers and TFWs. They should make sure everybody understands the TFW rules and how the program works. Then they should monitor both the employers and the employees to make sure abuses to the system don’t occur.

As well, EC should seek out and find all the present loopholes in the TWF system and fix them. They should encourage everyone to speak freely about the program and provide a way for them to do so. They should listen to suggestions for change and for ways to enforce the program. Then as a reward to both exemplary employees and employers they should encourage and help qualified TWFs gain permanent jobs and citizenship in our country.

Therefore, in the end, Employment Canada should treat Canada’s employees and employers like the Government of Canada treats their Canadian Senators. EC should create the most forward thinking, mobile, proudest, and pampered work culture on the planet. So when Canadians as well as invited workers join our workforce, no matter where they come from in Canada or abroad, and no matter how many times they wish to or are required to change their jobs or occupations, they’ll be guaranteed to have the highest standard of career tenure in the world all the way through to a secure and happy retirement.

Yes, Castanetters, the cost of your essential burger might go up by a few bucks as a means to support a revitalized employment system in Canada—including profit, wage, gratuity, and tax. But, so far, posters to this thread have expressed very few suggestions for how any of the ideas for improvement above might make matters worse. And even if Canada’s burger sales drop from billions-and-billions to simply billions for a little while, there will probably still be more than enough money around to support Canada’s new work culture as it takes off along with the economy it will create. Moreover, Canadian citizens will likely find pride in contributing to the welfare of our country with each delicious bite.

Thank you,

Source:

http://forums.castanet.net/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=56216&start=210#p1644960

Contributors:

http://forums.castanet.net/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=56216&start=210#p1644961

[steven lloyd]

Well, how about revisiting and sending this letter along to the Government.

That's pretty impressive. You might get Ron Cannon to look at it but I doubt it would make its way to Harper.

[WTTG]

Imperssive thanks to all those contributors.

But LOL, it might need some revising, because times have changed with the ‘reforms’ to the program, but for instance if you were to take bob vernon’s estimate of 330,000 workers at any time, times the 1,000 dollar application fee to the Government for each LMIA now, you would get something like 3,300,000,000 dollars paid to the Government by employers to bring those workers into Canada for four years. So how about seeing some actual effective programs from Services Canada, as outlined in the letter, to see them do a better job for Canadian workers and their employers?

Here’s some bedtime reading for comparison.

http://www.esdc.gc.ca/eng/jobs/foreign_workers/reform/overhauling_TFW.pdf

[Bsuds]

estimate of 330,000 workers at any time, times the 1,000 dollar application fee to the Government for each LMIA now, you would get something like 3,300,000,000 dollars paid to the Government

Try 330,000,000. still a large amount.

[WTTG]

Thanks, our editor friend.
We need all the help we can get with our posts.

Interstingly, according page 3 in the document we posted, it looks like the number of TFW’s entering Canada in 2013 who required the LMOs was 83,740 people.

At the old fee of 275 dollars beginning in April 2013, if half the workers came after that, it looks like it might have cost employers around 12,000,000 in application fees. (Bsuds?)

And, according to page 5, the number present in Canada as of Dec. 1, was 126,816 people.

Much more to look at in the document, too.

Again it's at: http://www.esdc.gc.ca/eng/jobs/foreign_workers/reform/overhauling_TFW.pdf