Dalhousie Dentistry Students Suspended

[mexi cali]

I have read what is out there, ad nauseum. I see yet another case of a group of people who are trying to do nothing more than cover their collective assses in case any of these young women decide to sue; for what, I have no clue.

I have seen the screen shots. I was not shocked. I get why the gals may have been offended. I think that there is far better usage of time than to waste on this kind of shiiite.

It could have been dealt with internally but no. There is always someone who feels the need to be heard and wants the world to know just how hurt they are because someone said something inappropriate.

we are so conditioned to react with outrage at the very notion that people make inappropriate comments. They are made every day. By countless people in countless ways. None of us is without sin. Yet there are those among us who feel we somehow have the right to judge.

We all make small judgments every day. We react to those who are different from us. Impulse. we aren't even aware that we are doing it because we do it all the time. The way they dress. The way they speak. The way they drive. But some want to carry this over to every action by every person and when it makes headlines, we have the answer. we know these people and what they are going to become because of what they did. we map out their lives.

Yet if it were any one of us, we would fight tooth and nail to try and get the world to see that it was just a mistake. I made a mistake. That wasn't me. It was just a joke. I didn't mean to hurt their feelings. I didn't know that it made them cry.

I am sorry. I'll never do it again.

But when it's someone else. Boy howdy. Get the rope and find me the tree. No punishment is too harsh.

The old saying "you never really know a person" is very true. Your friend. Your husband. Your wife. Your son. Your daughter. All are capable of this kind of nonsense. But you wouldn't be so quick to drape the noose over their necks. You would want to see it all and you would want what is fair. And reasonable.

Depriving these idiots of a future that they have worked incredibly hard to achieve because of idiocy in this way is not just.

[bob vernon]

Their "punishment" is that they will have to take their classes separately from the other students and female students. So they'll be in a smaller class with more time to access the prof. It's not a punishment at all. It's a reward.

[LANDM]

Ya got me there. What I meant was they have already finished their BA and are now in phase two. Score one for Howdie.

And as I am not omnipotent, what did I misquote you on? was this not you? I simply cut your drivel out and pasted it.

Is this a riddle? are you the riddler? where do you find time to rule/judge/educate the world and all of it's inferior minions and riddle me this? You are truly worthy of reverence. Not really but if any of that were true, you would.

While you cut and pasted the Howdie-drivel, you added your own drivel.....in red, except for the following, which I *definitely* did not say and which you left in black, implying it was said by me.

I have coloured it in red below so it is sort of like a little colouring book for the impotent or those who find anything an unsolvable riddle. All you have to do is imitate it in your post or delete it. Your choice. But the choice of doing nothing is not available. I have never reported a post yet and have no desire to, but misquoting me messes with the omnipotence that you have rightly bestowed upon me.

Here it is, so it doesn't challenge you further:
I think I need to soften the stance referring to much to do about nothing. This is not nothing. It is indeed egregious but the punishment, which is warranted, needs to be reflective of many factors, some of which SL has provided.

While not wanting to mitigate the sheer idiocy and callousness of the posts, they are more indicative of juvenile behavior than of sexual predators.

Thank you for your reverence and truly excellent minionosity.

[mexi cali]

Wow. You're making this too easy.

Those were all my words. Not a quote of yours.

I posted my thoughts and then realized that I had possibly come across as though I didn't care about the effect this was having on the women.

I did this with the aid of an edit which on your end should have shown as such. That you didn't get that is not my fault.

Reading is your friend.

This is how it should look. It would start with "ETA'. That means "edited to add". You must now turn in your omnipotence crown.

[mexi cali]

And if it didn't say "ETA", take it up with the mods.

[mexi cali]

Their "punishment" is that they will have to take their classes separately from the other students and female students. So they'll be in a smaller class with more time to access the prof. It's not a punishment at all. It's a reward.

Really? The prof is going to make themselves more available to these guys? Work longer? Work 2 classes? Same prof?

Easy to see where you stand.

[LANDM]

I have read what is out there, ad nauseum. I see yet another case of a group of people who are trying to do nothing more than cover their collective assses in case any of these young women decide to sue; for what, I have no clue.

None of the women have indicated that they wish to sue, as far as I have read. Please supply info if you have it

I have seen the screen shots. I was not shocked. I get why the gals may have been offended. I think that there is far better usage of time than to waste on this kind of shiiite.

These "gals" have worked equally as hard as the men. Alongside them. They don't need to be told that they should be hate-fu$&@$ by one of their classmates, or that they should be in a kitchen instead of the dental office, or that they should be banged until unconscious.

It could have been dealt with internally but no. There is always someone who feels the need to be heard and wants the world to know just how hurt they are because someone said something inappropriate.

Yes, one of the men in the group decided it went too far. The fact that you don't see that the *entire* university community disagrees with you confirms that your commentary holds little weight.

we are so conditioned to react with outrage at the very notion that people make inappropriate comments. They are made every day. By countless people in countless ways. None of us is without sin. Yet there are those among us who feel we somehow have the right to judge.

Again, what you don't seem to fathom is that (a) the university is *obligated* to provide an environment free of this, and (b) the dental licensing authorities in each jurisdiction *all* have conditions for licensing in place that ensure that licensees are of good moral character. This has nothing to do with you and I out on the street or wherever you may be employed, if you indeed are or have been. The situation is simply different. Whether you recognize that or not is irrelevant.

We all make small judgments every day. We react to those who are different from us. Impulse. we aren't even aware that we are doing it because we do it all the time. The way they dress. The way they speak. The way they drive. But some want to carry this over to every action by every person and when it makes headlines, we have the answer. we know these people and what they are going to become because of what they did. we map out their lives.

Yet if it were any one of us, we would fight tooth and nail to try and get the world to see that it was just a mistake. I made a mistake. That wasn't me. It was just a joke. I didn't mean to hurt their feelings. I didn't know that it made them cry.

I am sorry. I'll never do it again.

But when it's someone else. Boy howdy. Get the rope and find me the tree. No punishment is too harsh.

Except that there was at least one who said "I can say I want to hate-fu$& anyone I want. What are they going to do, kick out every fourth year guy?" That is a far cry from "I am sorry. I'll never do it again".
If there are a number of them that weren't involved or less involved, then it has been recognized that their situation will rightly be dealt with differently. I don't know where you get the rope and tree from. Nor do I see that no punishment is too harsh. There will be correct punishment and, considering none of us know the extent to which each of the 13 men were involved, we cannot predict the outcome. My stated opinion, based on what I have seen and read, is that at least one of the men was waaaaay past the bounds of appropriate behaviour.

The old saying "you never really know a person" is very true. Your friend. Your husband. Your wife. Your son. Your daughter. All are capable of this kind of nonsense. But you wouldn't be so quick to drape the noose over their necks. You would want to see it all and you would want what is fair. And reasonable.

Depriving these idiots of a future that they have worked incredibly hard to achieve because of idiocy in this way is not just.

And forgiving any behaviour simply because they worked hard is illogical. What behaviour *would* be worthy of expulsion, in your opinion?

My comments in bold.

[LANDM]

Wow. You're making this too easy.

Those were all my words. Not a quote of yours.

I posted my thoughts and then realized that I had possibly come across as though I didn't care about the effect this was having on the women.

I did this with the aid of an edit which on your end should have shown as such. That you didn't get that is not my fault.

Reading is your friend.

This is how it should look. It would start with "ETA'. That means "edited to add". You must now turn in your omnipotence crown.

Of course, they are your words. In black, exactly like mine. Unlike all of your other words that are in in red. It does not show as edited and it does not say ETA. That is confirmed where it quoted it in a subsequent post. So fix the damned thing.
Some people's kids.

[LANDM]

This is an excellent editorial from the National Post:

National Post editorial board: To make the Dalhousie dental students’ punishment fit the crime

Republish Reprint
National Post Editorial Board | January 6, 2015 7:01 PM ET
More from National Post Editorial Board

Andrew Vaughan/THE CANADIAN PRESSThe Dalhousie University dentistry building in Halifax.

The appalling irony in the case of the “Class of DDS 2015 Gentlemen,” the group of male Dalhousie University dentistry students found to have been posting grotesquely offensive comments online, including about their female classmates, is that there is nothing remotely gentlemanly about their behaviour. Perhaps it is an old-fashioned word, but this is not how gentlemen carry on.

Even allowing for the climate of extreme sensitivity that prevails at present, especially on campus — witness the current furore at the University of Calgary over the naming of flag-football teams — the comments in question are utterly outrageous. “Joking” about chloroforming and raping women in their class, voting on which of them they would like to “hate-f—k”: this is well beyond locker-room banter, and the storm it has aroused cannot be dismissed as political correctness.

It does not excuse any of those involved that the comments appear to have been intended solely for their own consumption, as part of a “closed” Facebook group. People can and do make offensive jokes in private, and considerable space should be allowed for this. But no one who has been properly socialized makes these sorts of jokes, even in private. While it is extremely unlikely any of the participants meant anything by their remarks beyond that, and while it is clear they did not mean anyone else ever to hear of them, now that they have become public knowledge they cannot be made unknowledge.

The women named cannot reasonably be expected simply to take their seats in class next to such “gentlemen.” Concerns for their safety may be overdrawn, but the attitudes revealed in the posts — about women in general, and about their presence in dentistry, where men have traditionally predominated — are deeply disturbing in themselves. That it would even occur to those studying for a profession that holds the power to put patients under sedation — students who are within a few months of practising — to joke about the criminal potential this presents casts serious doubt on their judgment, on top of everything else: It is just culpably stupid to think that anything posted online is likely to remain private.


The question is what punishment they should face. Rather than initiate a formal complaint process, the university has pursued, apparently at the request of some of the women, an alternative known as restorative justice, wherein the offenders are brought together in private with those they have harmed, to impress upon the former the gravity of the offence and the need to make amends. That has not satisfied some in the university community, who have demanded that all members of the group be expelled, even in advance of a full investigation. Under pressure, the university this week announced the 13 students had been suspended from clinical activities pending further disciplinary measures.

The university is right to proceed cautiously. It is not clear, for example, how many of the 13 were active participants in posting the offensive comments, and how many were merely passive recipients. And however ugly their remarks, it is always advisable to tread carefully where speech is involved: the more so, the more private the speech. But it seems equally clear that restorative justice will not suffice.

Given this context, outright expulsion, carrying with it the strong likelihood of ending their careers before they have begun, strikes us as disproportionate to the offence. These are clearly young men with backward and degrading ideas about women. But there is surely still room for rehabilitation and, dare we say, re-education.

We do not want to prejudge the investigation. But for those found to have taken active part, a suspension, perhaps as long as a year, would offer them an opportunity to learn from their mistake. The onus would then be on them to show cause why they should be reinstated. If they have any more sense than they have shown to date, they will use the time wisely.

National Post

[oneh2obabe]

And if it didn't say "ETA", take it up with the mods.

You didn't edit your post - next time double or triple check to make sure.

[maryjane48]

You do not have a clue what every female would or would not do knowing anything so what is your point? What you think this type of behaviour is somehow only a male on female thing?

lol your suggesting that females wont mind knowing that the new dentist in town might have joked about rape and violence towards females? and well yes it is a male female thing? until aliens show up then who knows could be a female male romulan thing to i suppose :)

[Smurf]

One thing I have to say is I'm not to sure anyone of these young men is actually smart enough to become a dentist. Anyone in this day and age who thinks or believes anything they put on the net anywhere is totally private or even expects it to be, is about as bright as a burned out light bulb. If these young men are no smarter than that at their stage in life, maybe they should fail. I'm thinking more and more they are a bunch of idiots. if I was part of Dalhousie I would not want them associated with my university.

[mexi cali]

My answers not in bold.

1) An assumption based on historical likelihood.

2) Agreed

3) In order for that to be true, you would have had to interview all of them. Everyone. That is a statement without basis. Assumptive.

4) a) understood but unrealistic b) I understand this. c) Stop being an *bleep* and this conversation will be more meaningful.

5) He needs to be shiiit kicked.

6) There was nothing appropriate about any of their behavior and it will be hard to sort out because it's hard to assign degrees of guilt to this type of thing. It's all disgusting. In much of the US, the get away driver is just as guilty as his accomplices who robbed the bank. Easier that way.

7) I never said that forgiveness was an option. Punishment is required. Expulsion is simply too much. If any of these morons was guilty of assault in any way toward any female, that would not only warrant expulsion, it would warrant jail where they would be valued as in house dentists who almost graduated. The fact is that what this amounts to are mere words. Dispicable yes, but words, not actions.

See, apart form your questioning my employment status, this went much better.

[mexi cali]

*removed*

[mexi cali]

Of course, they are your words. In black, exactly like mine. Unlike all of your other words that are in in red. It does not show as edited and it does not say ETA. That is confirmed where it quoted it in a subsequent post. So fix the damned thing.
Some people's kids.

How about the fact that it was outside the quote. Isn't that a clue? How about the context? That should have made it obvious.