Good riddance TFWs

[LoneWolf_53]

I never said these jobs should be paying $20. I just implied they could be paying more than the bare minimum that can legally be paid.

So what exactly makes you think they aren't paying more than minimum? I had a relative who after school worked at McDonald's for a couple of years and he made $14hr five years ago.

I know another relative who works at Orchard Park and she makes $14hr.

I would characterize those jobs as paying more than minimum. I guess it just suits your argument better to only mention the starting wage.

And I completely disagree about these people lacking in job search skills. Many of these people have government workers from WorkBC helping them and are still unable to find work. Local colleges also offer co-op programs where many of the students are never placed in a job - and this has nothing to do with a supposed lack of job search skills. It has to do with a lack of work in the Okanagan and most likely BC as a whole.

Then you go to where the work is. Though it might be nice, no one is guaranteed work in their chosen profession in their home town. Thousands from the Maritimes work out west because there's nothing to do back home.

Often times it comes down to choices, back about 25yrs I chose to move back here knowing that I was going to take a 20% cut in earnings, but that was my choice.

As for people with graduate degrees supposedly being dumb.....I don't know what to say to that. At least one person here claimed he can do the work of 3 men in half the time length. There's no way to convince people who think like this that others actually work hard and are intelligent. Some people here just think everyone who isn't getting ahead in life and has to compete with TFWs is an idiot. It's a really narrow-minded view and one that obviously is making sweeping generalizations (insulting and demeaning generalizations at that).

Just give it a bit of time. Perhaps after a few more decades under your belt those rose coloured glasses will fall off and show the true picture. Just FYI when I see someone with a degree whose car runs out of gas and he goes and checks the oil, yeah I characterize them as dumb.

One day maybe you will come to realize there are actually quite a few who have degrees and book knowledge but don't possess the practical skills that employers are looking for.

As to the insulting remark, well let's just say that mocking to suggest something I said was untrue or an exaggeration isn't all that admirable either so perhaps take a gander in the mirror.

[LoneWolf_53]

It's funny (as in "strange"), you read a topic like this on Castanet and get an impression that nobody can find a job in Okanagan, everybody works for a minimum wage, and there's a small army of unemployed young people who are only unemployed because of TFWs.

But then you drive by the parking lot of the mall and see it completely packed with new cars. You talk to a business owner who can't keep up with the demand and the phone is ringing non-stop. You see a Tim Hortons basically begging for full-time applicants. My wife's place of work has 4 openings for accounting positions - yet apparently people with accounting degrees work at McDonalds cause nobody is hiring anywhere in BC.

It's like two different universes.

Thank You, Thank You, my point exactly.

Were I to guess I'm thinking some of these unemployed are sitting at home, now and then on their keyboard, and expecting an email from some employer offering them a Vice President position for six figures.

Some just don't get it that technology or not, many potential employers still appreciate the old method of knocking on their door resume in hand and ready to work.

[Ford4x4Truck]

$14/h at McDonalds for an after school job? And this was 5 years ago when minimum wage was $8/h? You're seriously saying that someone working part-time after school was making $6 above minimum wage.....at a McDonalds no less?

Why even bother getting an education then? Why isn't everyone simply working at McDonalds for far above minimum wage?

I'm sorry, I don't believe you. Nor do I believe these people claiming that farms here are paying $15/h especially since I have first-hand experience working at various farms. One doesn't even need experience though - simply do a Google search for farm jobs here. Heck do a McDonalds search and you'll see they're not paying $14/h. Oh sorry that was 5 years ago....so I guess the wage is more like $20/h now?

If people here really think businesses are paying these ridiculously high salaries but not getting applicants I can see why people think TFWs are necessary. But the reality is that these businesses aren't paying anything even remotely close to the wages being posted here.

[Ford4x4Truck]

Were I to guess I'm thinking some of these unemployed are sitting at home, now and then on their keyboard, and expecting an email from some employer offering them a Vice President position for six figures.

Some just don't get it that technology or not, many potential employers still appreciate the old method of knocking on their door resume in hand and ready to work.

More insults....

please go to WorkBC sometime and see what the job coaches there do with unemployed people and the suggestions that are made.

The coaches check to make sure that people are in fact delivering resumes in person as well as sending thank-you letters. People on Social Assistance also have to provide evidence that they're applying at various businesses as well as evidence of grooming, a proper resume and so on.

I'm sorry but you're just 100% wrong here.

I don't know where people get this vision that unemployed people are sitting on a coach all day but it's just not true.....like at all. And it's incredibly insulting to the people who actually are working hard to get jobs - a lot of which are or at least were taken by foreign workers.

[LoneWolf_53]

I don't need to do a search, and show me where I said that he STARTED at $14hr?

He started same as everyone else, but he proved himself and kept being given more responsibility and money so when he left that's what he was earning.

I'm getting frankly a little sick of you suggesting people are liars just because you don't have someones pay stub in your hand for evidence. Apparently everyone telling you your take on it is incorrect is a liar. How convenient for your argument!!!!

I have zero motive for lying on here about this topic, but I have plenty of frustration stored up thanks to personal experience, so when I see people whining about jobs it's hard to remain quiet knowing they are out there.

I am beginning to wonder if some of these people with degrees you speak of are using code language? So "no jobs" is code for "I didn't get a six figure offer this week so will continue to sit at home until I do." LOL

I don't know where people get this vision that unemployed people are sitting on a coach all day but it's just not true.....like at all. And it's incredibly insulting to the people who actually are working hard to get jobs - a lot of which are or at least were taken by foreign workers.

You are aware that these TFW came as part of a program that really isn't that old right?
Before that program came into effect and gave you a convenient target, what exactly was the reason that farmers were hard up for workers and used a lot of Quebecers????

I mean if there are all these ready and willing to work people already here, wouldn't the farmers have used them as opposed to francophones?

What was the excuse then?

[Ford4x4Truck]

You complain about me calling BS on $14/h wages at a fast food restaurant. Yet you then making extremely....and I do mean extremely insulting generalizations about people making minimum wage as well as unemployed people. You paint Canadians as so lazy that you can apparently do the work of 3 of them in half the time.

I'm not asking for a pay stub, but I would absolutely love to see an ad for a McDonalds job here paying $14/h or even more than that since this was apparently 5 years ago.

As for farms hiring francophones a long time ago, I can only assume it was cheaper and more convenient. Just like it's cheaper now to get foreign workers to work 16 hour days and not pay OT.

[Captain Awesome]

I would absolutely love to see an ad for a McDonalds job here paying $14/h or even more than that since this was apparently 5 years ago.

You won't see one simply because the position in question is probably a team lead or assistant manager position. They don't hire from outside for them, they promote from within.

[LoneWolf_53]

Things are becoming much clearer now that I have confirmation you struggle with reading comprehension.

I've said twice now that he started at the same wage as everyone else.

What that means is whatever the going rate was for new hires at the time, that's what he got so there wouldn't be an ad stating starting wage is $14hr would there?

Over his two year stint working there he was making $14hr when he left the job.

The person working at Orchard Park also didn't start out at $14hr, she started close to minimum wage and also worked her way up to the $14hr level in just under two years.

LOL. So the Quebecers were working for cheaper too eh. Just keep telling yourself that and maybe it'll come true.

Have you ever considered that many of these types of jobs are advertised around minimum wage, because there is a lot of turnover, and employers sift through what they have, rewarding those they feel demonstrate initiative, and often leaving others at the lower wage, unimpressed with their performance and relatively confident they'll be off onto something else soon anyway?

All that's coming from your corner is excuses and proclamations that everything you don't agree with is a lie.

Where I come from that's called denial but suit yourself.

Clearly you have no interest in learning any information contrary to that which garners sympathy so carry on. I'm done here.

[Ford4x4Truck]

I'm not getting into a silly argument with you about who supposedly has reading comprehension problems and who doesn't.

As I said before, I really feel like some people here really need to go to WorkBC and other government agencies and see first-hand the problems people are having gaining employment.

Some insults were also hurled at people receiving welfare / disability cheques and how apparently none of them want to work. Again, try going to a Social Assistance office and see what issues people are dealing with.

There are definitely issues with TFWs taking a lot of the lower-level jobs, but hopefully that issue will start to dissipate now that a lot of them are leaving.

Businesses complaining that they might have to gasp....actually hire Canadians and provide competitive wages is incredibly silly. They should have been doing this in the 1st place.

[Barney Google]

I was in a fast food restaurant yesterday and I must say that it was a refreshing change. Not one TFW in site and lots of local staff. Its nice to be able to order something and not have to try to explain the English language to the clerk. Fluency in English should be a key factor in hiring any TFW. Also, 4 years (as some of them were allowed) is far too long to stay in the country. Try doing that as a Canadian in the United States (and working there). Good luck; you'd be lucky to stay there even for one year. When unemployment is high (as its getting once again here), the TFW program should be put on hold.

I find this kind of statement very sad and extremely frustrating. Our country was founded on immigrants and many of them could speak no English at all. A lot of them had little to no education nor could they read. When I hear/see this I know that these kinds of remarks come from people who have never taken the time to sit down and talk to people who are new to our country. Since when are we, as Canadians, so much better than to not be able to be understandingly benevolent and lend a sympathetic helping hand to someone who is trying to make a new way in life? Not all that long ago, that person behind the fast food restaurant might have been one of your grandparents struggling to make a new life for your family in the country you now call home.

[OREZ]

Our country was founded on immigrants and many of them could speak no English at all....

...Not all that long ago, that person behind the fast food restaurant might have been one of your grandparents struggling to make a new life for your family in the country you now call home.

My parents were immigrants in the 50's and were from an agricultural background. They had very little English language skills and the education they did have wasn't recognized here so I understand where you're coming from. The major difference in your comparison to the TFWs though, is that my parents (like all immigrants of that era) went through the immigration process and were committed to becoming Canadian, raising their kids as Canadians and making a permanent life here. I'm all for immigration.

At what point does the term Temporary Foreign Worker become kind of meaningless? How many years? If most of the money made here is going out of our country instead of back into our economy, how does that benefit anyone here except the businesses who rely on lower labour rates and/or standards than they would otherwise need to fulfill? I'm just asking honest questions here, I'm not trying to push any agenda.

I'm interested in seeing the people who come here and work so hard make a life for themselves here and make a contribution to this country - and I don't just mean economically. I'm uncomfortable with the idea that they may be being used to keep labour rates and employment standards down, if that is what is indeed happening. I am certainly not insinuating that you yourself are in favour of this though, I'm just acknowledging that it could, in some cases, happen very easily because they don't really have a voice which will be heard.

[goalie]

I find this kind of statement very sad and extremely frustrating. Our country was founded on immigrants and many of them could speak no English at all.

Very touching, except for the small part where the TFW program isn't supposed to be an immigration bypass.

[Barney Google]

To OREZ... thank you for your insight and compassion. In so very many ways simply refreshing. Thank you... Do you know what the immigration requirements are for Canada? Most, if not all, of these TFWs do not have the education level or financial ability to qualify. Yet here they are filling jobs that seemingly, and go ahead an flame me for this, that Canadians for whatever reason can't or don't want or are unable to fill. The only hope these folks have is that someone they are employed by or meet here in Canada will see them for who they are, what they bring and how driven they are and sponsor their application to become landed immigrants in Canada. It's not an easy process...it's hugely expensive and far more involved than a regular immigration application. Not all TFWs want to immigrate...most of them don't understand that is an option for them. They are simply trying to feed their families...educate their children. These are hard working people who want the best for their families and their children. Just like us. For most of them immigrating to Canada would be beyond their wildest dreams. Regardless of which side of the fence you sit on...for God's sake...please treat these people with the respect that you as Canadians would be proud of. For us, the last thing we want anyone from any country coming here to work to think that Canadians treat any person like second class individuals. We as Canadians are so much better than that. If someone is struggling to grasp our language or our culture PLEASE be kind...please be the Canadians that throughout the World we are so very much respected for.