SCoC: Khadr not adult offender

[oneh2obabe]

OTTAWA — The Supreme Court of Canada has rejected the federal government's bid to have former Guantanamo Bay prisoner Omar Khadr declared an adult offender.

It was the third time Khadr's case has been before the high court, and the third time the justices have ruled in his favour.

The latest case centred on whether the eight-year war-crimes sentence Khadr was given by a U.S. military commission in 2010 ought to be interpreted as a youth or adult sentence.

The federal government has consistently branded Khadr a hardened terrorist, arguing that he was really given five concurrent eight-year terms for each of his five war crimes — a conclusion the high court abruptly rejected.

After almost 13 years in custody, the 28-year-old Khadr was released on bail last week while he appeals his U.S. conviction, which has drawn fierce criticism from legal and human rights experts.

Khadr was 15 when he threw the grenade that killed U.S. Sgt. Christopher Speer during a firefight in Afghanistan in July 2002.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2015 ... today.html


Supreme Court rulings on Omar Khadr

First time 2008
Canadian officials had acted illegally by sharing intelligence information about Khadr with his U.S. captors.

Second time 2010
Ottawa had violated Khadr's constitutional rights by interrogating him in Guantanamo Bay knowing he had been abused.

[Atomoa]

This case has been such a travesty from the beginning.

I recently watched a Conservative MP on power and politics defend the fact that Omar's "admission that he was a terrorist" came out of 10 years of torture.

"He admitted he was a terrorist, yes under torture, but acceptable forms of torture!"

Absolutely appalling.

What can we take away from all this? : The Harper Government outright supports torture and could care less about court rulings and the rule of law.

[maryjane48]

*removed*

[logicalview]

What can we take away from all this? : The Harper Government outright supports torture and could care less about court rulings and the rule of law.

Yes. That's what "we" can take away for all this. And we can take it away, while ignoring the fact that this guy was sitting in a Taliban stronghold and was fighting against the very country that took him in. Oh yeah, and he killed a guy. But let's forget all of that.

The Khadr family comprises:
Ahmed Khadr (1948–2003), father, an Egyptian-Canadian, killed by Pakistani security forces
Maha el-Samnah (born 1957), mother, a Palestinian-Canadian
Their children:
Zaynab Khadr (born 1979 in Ottawa), a daughter
Abdullah Khadr (born 1981 in Ottawa), a son who returned to Canada in 2005, was arrested on behalf of the United States and held for five years while an extradition request was reviewed. Ontario Superior Court ordered him released in 2010 citing "shocking and unjustifiable" human rights violations.[3][4][5]
Abdurahman Khadr (born 1982), a son notable for press interviews dubbing the Khadrs "an al-Qaeda family" and his co-operation with the United States intelligence services
Ibrahim Khadr (1985–1988), a son who had a congenital heart defect[6]
Omar Khadr (born 1986), a son captured by American forces following a 2002 firefight and held in Guantanamo Bay from 2002 to 2012. He returned to Canada in September, 2012.[7]
Abdulkareem Khadr (born 1989), a son, severely wounded in the attack in which his father died; is now paraplegic
youngest daughter (born 1991)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khadr_family

Here's something a lot of Canadians are still struggling to understand - why do leftists love this family so much? What have they done to deserve such strong outpouring of emotions? I get that you guys like being on the wrong side of every single argument, but this one seems like such a weird hill for you to choose to fight on.

[maryjane48]

Oh yeah, and he killed a guy.

and how many civilians did the yanks kill there? how many of them are sitting in jail ? harper is pathetic

[Jx3]

What can we take away from all this? : The Harper Government outright supports torture and could care less about court rulings and the rule of law.

Yes. That's what "we" can take away for all this. And we can take it away, while ignoring the fact that this guy was sitting in a Taliban stronghold and was fighting against the very country that took him in. Oh yeah, and he killed a guy. But let's forget all of that.

Actually Canada took his family in but he was born here.

Here's something a lot of Canadians are still struggling to understand - why do leftists love this family so much? What have they done to deserve such strong outpouring of emotions? I get that you guys like being on the wrong side of every single argument, but this one seems like such a weird hill for you to choose to fight on.

Good question.

He has become a hero of sorts for the leftists which is beyond deplorable. He wasn't defending his home or even homeland, he was a foreigner fighting against a coalition of nations of which his own birth country was a member. He killed a soldier (well a medic actually) of our neighbour and closest ally.

If he had renounced his Canadian citizenship and become an Afghan citizen and fought for the Taliban that's one thing but for him to join in a fight against the coalition that Canada was part of and then beg to be returned to Canada after being captured (and then subsequently being welcomed "home" with open arms by so many leftists) is nothing short of despicable.

Would he still be a leftist poster child if he had killed a Canadian solider or does he get a free pass just because it was "only" a "damned Yankee" that he killed?

Disgusting.

[Atomoa]

As the judge overseeing the trial put it :

The accused role was to be killed. He could not defend himself or he would face murder or attempted murder charges. When the troops moved in and opened fire and moved in on the village to attack, Omar had one option legally. To be killed.

Interesting rules of engagement.

Also, if we tortured a 16 year old Paul Bernardo for 10 years to get a confession it wouldn't matter the severity of Paul's crimes compared to the evil of condoning torture, especially a child solider.

[logicalview]

As the judge overseeing the trial put it :

The accused role was to be killed. He could not defend himself or he would face murder or attempted murder charges. When the troops moved in and opened fire and moved in on the village to attack, Omar had one option legally. To be killed.

Interesting rules of engagement.

Or he could have surrendered to the medic instead of killing him. That's another option. But Omar was pure as the driven snow. Of course. Just a victim. Yeah right.

On the contrary, the judge found, there was "credible evidence" that Khadr began giving statements after American soldiers discovered a seemingly damning digital video.

The video was discovered in the rubble of the compound where American forces captured Khadr, who had been shot twice and blinded by shrapnel, in July 2002.

Among other things, the video shown at his trial last week appears to show Khadr making and planting improvised explosive devices.

"While the accused was 15 years old at the time he was captured, he was not immature for his age," Parrish said. "The accused had sufficient training, education and experience to understand the circumstances in which he found himself."

But please, tell us why this guy should be free right now, and even better, living in your house.

Also, if we tortured a 16 year old Paul Bernardo for 10 years to get a confession it wouldn't matter the severity of Paul's crimes compared to the evil of condoning torture, especially a child solider.

Oh good grief, now you are dragging Paul Bernardo into this asinine discussion. I keep seeing leftists everywhere babbling on about torture, and I don't know what that has to do with Omar Khadr, other than it makes a nice fake sound-bite, and you guys love fake sound-bites.

"There is no credible evidence the accused was ever tortured … even using a liberal interpretation considering the accused's age," Parrish wrote.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/omar-khadr ... e-1.870057

[flamingfingers]

He was 15 years old. Does he have a 5-year history of killing and plundering and raping?

[FreeRights]

The issue here is that, as long as we play this silly left vs right game, we'll get nowhere.

Khadr is absolutely far from being innocent. He participated against his birth country and killed a US soldier (who, again, isn't the decision maker for going to the Middle East, so that entire argument is irrelevant) with a grenade.

He was 15 at the time and, regardless what outside influence of beliefs that he had at that time, should absolutely be held responsible for those actions.

He should be spending a great deal of his life in prison. Should be, except for his inhumane and extended treatment at Guantanamo Bay. In Canada, guilty persons "earn" time incarcerated. They aren't and should not be subject to torture and general inhumane treatment.

It's actually fairly easy to see from an objective Canadian perspective. Yes, he's a murderer/terrorist. But yes, his Charter rights were absolutely breached - rights that are even afforded the most hardened of criminals.

I think offering a second chance isn't the worst thing in the world. If he learns something from this experience, has lost his radicalization, and becomes a productive member of society, then it's worth it.

[logicalview]

The issue here is that, as long as we play this silly left vs right game, we'll get nowhere.

Khadr is absolutely far from being innocent. He participated against his birth country and killed a US soldier (who, again, isn't the decision maker for going to the Middle East, so that entire argument is irrelevant) with a grenade.

I agree. But that's all this is about isn't it? The loony leftists crying about Khadr don't honestly give a crap about him, it's all about the bigger political picture. Khadr is just a tool for these idiots to write brain-dead nonsense like "the Harper government outright supports torture". This is a stupid statement that helps no one, least of all Khadr, but it's obvious this isn't about him at all, it's just another avenue to cry and whine and make insanely dumb comments about the government.

I think offering a second chance isn't the worst thing in the world. If he learns something from this experience, has lost his radicalization, and becomes a productive member of society, then it's worth it.

I agree. Though it will be interesting to see if this family's jihadist days are truly behind them. I'd prefer it if we didn't have to waste the millions of dollars on surveillance trying to find out.

[FreeRights]

I agree. But that's all this is about isn't it? The loony leftists crying about Khadr don't honestly give a crap about him, it's all about the bigger political picture. Khadr is just a tool for these idiots to write brain-dead nonsense like "the Harper government outright supports torture". This is a stupid statement that helps no one, least of all Khadr, but it's obvious this isn't about him at all, it's just another avenue to cry and whine and make insanely dumb comments about the government.

I don't think this is "really" a left vs right issue at all, but people like you on both sides of the spectrum have been trying to turn it into one. You have people on the left who would have released him and handed him the Nobel Peace Prize, but you have equally as brain dead people on the right that would have thrown the 15 year old in front of a firing squad. Both equally stupid ideas that actually do nothing to further the debate.

You agree that making this a political issue is dumb, yet you continue to try and do it.

[logicalview]

You agree that making this a political issue is dumb, yet you continue to try and do it.

So by calling out the stupidity of the those on the left who are trying to make this a political issue, I am continuing to make it a political issue? I think you are wrong there. I agreed with you that I think if he's been rehabilitated that he be let go into the public. But with a lot less fanfare. Perhaps the government should stop continuing doing what they are doing, but there also may be information that we the public are not privy to.

[Corneliousrooster]

Khadr did wrong - and he has been tortured and held captive ever since. He was 15 years old. As someone previously posted a list of his families record we can all see what kind of influence he grew up with (up to the age of 15 anyways). Just how do you think someone with that kind of upbringing would turn out? When is there "enough" punishment for the crime?

A girl in alberta - 3 years younger - killed her whole family. She was sentenced to a total of 10 years - instead of torture, we tax payers paid for her education. She was released after 5.

Until our country gets some kind of consistency with the punishments it doles out - I don't think we should be dictating (especially our government) how much punishment a 15 year old child soldier (terrorist) deserves.

[steven lloyd]

Yes. That's what "we" can take away for all this. And we can take it away, while ignoring the fact that this guy was sitting in a Taliban stronghold and was fighting against the very country that took him in. Oh yeah, and he killed a guy. But let's forget all of that.

He was sitting in a Taliban stronghold because his father abducted him from his mother in Canada and took him there to be radicalized by his father and older brother. He was 15 years old when during a raid by American forces he threw a grenade and killed an American soldier. This is what happens in war. Soldiers put in harms way sometimes get killed. Is this a war crime? If so we have a few hundred thousand more cases to process through the Court. No, this was indeed a mockery of justice from the beginning, and Harper's response to the matter yet another example of why Canadians should not want him to be our Prime Minister. Harper promised us we would not recognize Canada when he was through with it. I can't believe we are going to let him do that. One day people will look back and wonder how it was the sheeple became so docile and tame.