Tears over Lost Highway

[jamapple]

Information constantly gets misconstrued. Don't go on here spewing about the 3 levels of government doing nothing, when it is clear to everyone that the city of Winnipeg, and the provincial governments have acknowledged, and support this...just not the feds.

[maryjane48]

Information constantly gets misconstrued. Don't go on here spewing about the 3 levels of government doing nothing, when it is clear to everyone that the city of Winnipeg, and the provincial governments have acknowledged, and support this...just not the feds.

support what?

[Donald G]

To lakevixen ...

A government using taxpayer money to support ANY economic venture when there is absolutely no possibility of any return to those taxpayers is just another form of welfare.

[erinmore3775]

DG, what is welfare from one point of view is sound economic development planning from another. Many people looked at the federal government's support of Chrysler and GM as corporate welfare. Others looked at the money spent as a good investment to ensure sustained economic development in an industry which is largely located in the province of Ontario. Still others criticized the fact that the government sold its "security" shares early , substantially at a loss, to ensure a "balanced" budget before the fall election. Were these actions good economic development planning, corporate welfare, or desperate measures to curry favor with supporters and voters?

In 1914 a commitment was made to the Shoal Lake Band to support their economic development after they were moved onto the man-made isthmus. This commitment was reiterated when the agreement was resigned in the 80's. Included was the development of a road, and sanitation and water purification works. Currently three governments Manitoba, Ontario, and the City of Winnipeg believe that there is an agreement possible to fulfill past commitments. They thought they had an agreement in place with the federal government. The federal government came to the announcement "party" not with a commitment for approximately $30 M that would have been their share of the multi-government agreement to build the road, and the sanitary and water facilities instead they offered $1M for another study. With the road and the other facilities the Band would have been on its way to true economic development by returning to their tourist based economy of the early 1900's. The failed federal commitment had other economic consequences. It prevented the twining of the Trans Canada Highway in the area and put the provision of much needed potable water to the surrounding communities of Winnipeg on hold. Both of these projects could not be considered "taxpayer welfare" but good "economic development planning."

When four levels of government can come together with a sound economic plan that provides long term benefits for the citizens of two provinces and the federal government blocks the solution, then there is a problem. The fact that it is more important for federal departments to return "lapsed funding" to the budget office to "ensure" that there is a balanced budget before the next election than for the current federal government to ensure future economic development for this region is really telling. DG, your definitions and those of the federal government of "welfare," "good economic development planning," and "economic return" should not, can not, be applied here. However, what can be seen here is that the current federal government has demonstrated "an inability to work with others," a "willingness to blindly follow ideology," and a total disassociation with true "conservative" values. Fortunately or unfortunately, depending on your viewpoint, these characteristics of the current federal government are likely to cost them dearly in the coming federal election. Hopefully a newly elected federal government will re-examine these decisions, allocate the appropriate funding to rectify this situation, and improve "economic development" for everyone in this area.

[Donald G]

To erinmore3775 ...

Your use of the words "sound economic development" mandates that there be a return on the money invested. What, in your opinion, is the return on the $100,000,000.00 or so dollars for the Federal Government ??

Repeating the same information over and over again does not increase its value, but it tends to keep the information in front of the readers rather than become buried in the "previous pages".

The numbers and agreements for the last 100 years are still missing so only one side of the story is being told.

Do you think that a Crown Submission WITHOUT ANY DEFENSE BEING SUBMITTED in Criminal Court is adequate for a judicial finding ??

[Bpeep]

Repeating the same information over and over again does not increase its value.

Am I reading this correctly?

[Donald G]

More acceptable now Bman ??

[erinmore3775]

To lakevixen ...

A government using taxpayer money to support ANY economic venture when there is absolutely no possibility of any return to those taxpayers is just another form of welfare.

Unfortunately I believe that you do not read even your own posts, let alone do any research on the topic at hand. Your answers and comments seem to support a viewpoint that only considers the bias of the Conservatives and the rather narrow and limited viewpoint expressed by the current management of the Ministry governing aboriginal affairs. I would remind you that phrases like "sound econmic planning, planning for sound economic development, and sound management," amongst others all were mentioned in the Conservative Party of Canada's platform of the last election and were included in "pamphlet" information delivered to my mailbox by the "elected" Conservative candidate in my riding. I guess I should be pillored for my naivety for believing in the words offered in a party platform or the words of my elected local candidate.

I would really encourage you to let your fingers and mind walk through the opinions, legislative commitments, and statements made by Winnipeg, Ontario, and Manitoba. Examining this information should allow you to contribute more to the discussion and the debate. I also find that you remark, "...Repeating the same information over and over again does not increase its value..." rather interesting considering you participation in another thread.

I believe that I and others here have made salient points that demonstrate the willingness of the Shoal Lake Band, Winnipeg, Manitoba, and Ontario to work together to solve related health and safety problems and foster improvements to area's economic development. Unfortunately neither you nor spokespersons from the Ministry nor the current federal government have presented any arguments or explanations that rationize their position or actions on this matter. Therefore, I consider this debate/discussion closed.

[Donald G]

Same points ... same one sided conclusions ... same bias ...

We disagree. So be it.

[maryjane48]

lmao um don g , you say giving money with no return is a waste of money ? so your saying healthy canadians that want to work will not add back into the tax base ? or are you really saying first nations folks never work and never pay tax ? . i would say having f18 rews sight seeing in middle east is way more tax money we will never get back

[steven lloyd]

Repeating the same information over and over again does not increase its value, but it tends to keep the information in front of the readers rather than become buried in the "previous pages".

Same points ... same one sided conclusions ... same bias ....

[Merry]

It is ironic that the Harper Government appears very willing to help third world countries obtain access to clean drinking water, while denying funds which allow such access to many of our own First Nations.

I was talking to a European visitor once who asked me a question about why Canada is so willing to help other countries when, at the same time, so many of it's own First Nations citizens still live in third world conditions? It got me to thinking about it, and once I did I decided the European visitor had a point.

Consider the following, and then think about what's happening at Shoal Lake:

Harper Government marks World Water Day by helping to provide clean drinking water and sanitation
March 22, 2013
Ottawa, Ontario — Clean drinking water and basic sanitation are fundamental necessities to lead healthy, productive and dignified lives. Today, in recognition of World Water Day, the Honourable Julian Fantino, Minister of International Cooperation, announced support for two initiatives that will help people in developing countries have access to clean, safe water.

"This year's World Water Day theme—International Year of Water Cooperation—reflects the fact that often water problems cross borders and we need close international cooperation and creative ways to solve the problems," said Minister Fantino. "The Harper Government is proud to support these two initiatives because we know that water is critical to so many aspects of life, including agriculture and economic growth."

Canada will support the African Water Facility, an initiative with the African Development Bank, for the development of water infrastructure projects in Africa. These projects will help people in many African countries have access to drinking water and basic sanitation. The African Water Facility will also assist countries in the management and conservation of shared water resources such as river and lake basins, helping create better agricultural and economic growth opportunities.

Canada is also providing support to the United Nations University Institute for Water, Environment and Health to help resolve pressing global water problems such as access to drinking water and basic sanitation, and the conservation of water resources and how to manage them. Solving water problems helps people in developing countries have better access to nutritious food, and helps improve their health.

This past year, Canada has also helped improve access to water in many parts of the world. For example:

In Ghana, Canada helped improve access to safe water, reaching 63 percent of households nationwide, and helped construct 250 dams and dugouts that brought a secure water supply for household and agricultural needs in rural parts of the country;

In Honduras, Canada provided access to potable water to nearly 24,000 people in 29 communities;

In Haiti, Canada increased access to potable water for 2,500 people; and

In North Africa, the Nile Basin Initiative launched a common database to share critical information for the optimal use of Nile water resources, allowing the nine basin countries to manage the water resources in a collaborative way that reduces regional tensions and mobilizes large-scale water infrastructure investments.

http://www.acdi-cida.gc.ca/acdi-cida/ac ... 101417-JPZ

[maryjane48]

it just proves harper and his supporters hate first nations

[Smurf]

I just dropped Harper and Fantino a note about the reasons for what the Conservatives are doing. I happened to mention I would like an answer as there is an election looming. Any bets.

[Merry]

Well Smurf, as I just read in another thread that "the Conservative government's actions are "in the same vein" as the son of God's" I'm not sure we should be questioning them.

But if you do happen to get a response, please be sure to share it.