51763

They fought for our freedom

Re: They fought for our freedom

Postby sobrohusfat » Jan 18th, 2018, 8:57 pm

"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." - Mark Twain

2 people like this post.
User avatar
sobrohusfat
Lord of the Board
 
Posts: 4053
Likes: 1175 posts
Liked in: 1509 posts
Joined: Jul 1st, 2008, 11:42 pm

Re: They fought for our freedom

Postby goodswimmer » Jan 21st, 2018, 3:02 pm

My Grandfather was never able to get over his experience in the second World War. I joined the Forces and have been ruined too. What makes it even worse is that the Government and Veteran Affairs have been making our lives difficult. Its bad enough to be cripple but to have all of these benefits taken away and then told its better than ever is a huge slap to the face.

I almost killed myself it has been so bad but then I found out I had a child on the way. I am glad I didn't because I love being a father but I suffer every day.

Don't join the forces, if you get hurt the will screw you and tell you like it.

I hope this doesn't offend anybody, I am just telling it how it has been for us VETs

2 people like this post.
goodswimmer
 
Posts: 20
Likes: 6 posts
Liked in: 3 posts
Joined: Jul 4th, 2017, 4:10 pm

Re: They fought for our freedom

Postby seewood » Jan 22nd, 2018, 7:22 am

Thanks good swimmer.
I'm not a vet but grandparents were( WW1 and WW2) and dad was a captain in British army.
I thought Harjit Sajjan was going to reverse the nonsense Harper's government implemented and really help the vets that signed up to put their lives on the line. Sooo disappointed.
I am not wealthy but I am rich

2 people like this post.
seewood
Board Meister
 
Posts: 585
Likes: 695 posts
Liked in: 551 posts
Joined: May 29th, 2013, 1:08 pm

Re: They fought for our freedom

Postby mexi cali » Jan 22nd, 2018, 10:50 am

It's nearly impossible to imagine what it must really be like to fight in a war. Watching friends die. The fear. The uncertainty. Wondering if each approaching minute will be the last.

I don't think that as a people, we are wired to experience fear that permeates our souls and come out without emotional scars and not be forever changed.

The lucky ones are able to place the worst memories in a glass jar on a shelf in a dusty old corner of their minds where they can be largely ignored but they are there nonetheless. No one should have to worry about the jar breaking and spilling its nightmares, but they must.

I have my Grandfathers medals (WW1), my other grandfathers night stick (policeman during WW2) and gratitude that my father never had to see live action. He was deployed but had the good fortune to witness the end of the war from Germany or Holland or some such place where he was awaiting placement orders.

My mom talks about nightly air raids when the Luftwaffe bombed and straifed their villages and towns and they, as children, had to run to the shelters until they had finished. Then life resumed, at least until the next time.

I sometimes hear the sirens in my dreams, which is testament to how those stories affected me. It always scares me so I can't imagine the horror of living it, night after night.

There is a photo that pops up every now and then of a little girl holding a doll and wearing a little bow in her hair. She is very nicely dressed, about 5 or 6 maybe and she is standing amongst the ruins of London. Everything around her reduced to rubble and there she is. I hope she was able to forget.

For those of us who live today, we can never forget.
Praise the lord and pass the ammunition

4 people like this post.
User avatar
mexi cali
Guru
 
Posts: 5251
Likes: 2133 posts
Liked in: 3204 posts
Joined: May 5th, 2009, 1:48 pm

Re: They fought for our freedom

Postby unclemarty » Jan 22nd, 2018, 1:49 pm

mexi cali wrote:...The lucky ones are able to place the worst memories in a glass jar on a shelf in a dusty old corner of their minds where they can be largely ignored but they are there nonetheless...


...and sometimes stay buried till late in life when they surface again - for soldiers and everyone else.

My mother told us stories of the 1944/45 Allied air raids over Alsace France (on the west side of the Rhine river, the border with Germany) She was 10 years old then and described the crowded bomb shelters that were suffocating as the exploding bombs above robbed all the oxygen - she remembered the bodies of people and animals and random devastation to their city (Strasbourg) when they came back up. The Allied bombers were supposed to destroy a factory and munitions dump on the edge of town but miscalculated the drop. One day they responded to the air-raid sirens as usual but no explosions were heard. When they came back up the next morning, there were dead and dying German and American soldiers in the streets. ...and everyone cheered - the Germans were finally gone.

Many decades later, when dementia had affected her mind, she would at times wake my sister up in the middle of the night in a wild panic, insisting they must leave immediately to hide. In her mind it was 1939 - and the Nazis were on their way. As a girl, that was when she had been sent to a small village to hide-out in the country with gentile friends of the family for a while.

The nightmare of war affects everyone for life.

Strasbourg.jpg
tic...toc...tic...toc...

"Jerusalem is a port city on the shore of eternity." - Yehuda Amichai
User avatar
unclemarty
Board Meister
 
Posts: 591
Likes: 18 posts
Liked in: 44 posts
Joined: Jul 23rd, 2008, 6:21 pm

Re: They fought for our freedom

Postby mexi cali » Jan 22nd, 2018, 1:53 pm

I hope this doesn't offend anybody, I am just telling it how it has been for us VETs


I hope it does offend somebody. Somebody needs to be offended because the way vets on both sides of the border are treated is reprehensible.
Praise the lord and pass the ammunition

2 people like this post.
User avatar
mexi cali
Guru
 
Posts: 5251
Likes: 2133 posts
Liked in: 3204 posts
Joined: May 5th, 2009, 1:48 pm

Re: They fought for our freedom

Postby unclemarty » Jan 22nd, 2018, 4:34 pm

"They fought for our freedom" has become such an abstract sentiment

The generation that felt genuine personal gratitude for "They" is almost all gone.
tic...toc...tic...toc...

"Jerusalem is a port city on the shore of eternity." - Yehuda Amichai

Catsumi likes this post.
User avatar
unclemarty
Board Meister
 
Posts: 591
Likes: 18 posts
Liked in: 44 posts
Joined: Jul 23rd, 2008, 6:21 pm

Re: They fought for our freedom

Postby Symbonite » Jan 31st, 2018, 6:59 pm

I guess they fought for a Liberal style government? That would change the Canadian Anthem without really any input from Canadians? I can not believe they got rid of the line "in all thy sons command" (which I do believe was re written to honour the people in WW1) with "in all of us command"

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/anthem- ... -1.4513317
**Disclaimer: The above statement is in my OPINION only.
User avatar
Symbonite
Lord of the Board
 
Posts: 3216
Likes: 15 posts
Liked in: 645 posts
Joined: Feb 16th, 2005, 9:30 am
Location: From Within

Re: They fought for our freedom

Postby bob vernon » Feb 2nd, 2018, 7:10 am

"all thy sons....." was the modification in 1908 from an even earlier version. Before WWI. It's not a big deal if these minor changes are made to the words to reflect what all languages do: change over time.

We have an anthem singer here at junior hockey games in Vernon who uses "all thour sons command" as a kind of mixed word that makes no sense at all.
bob vernon
Übergod
 
Posts: 1923
Likes: 7 posts
Liked in: 999 posts
Joined: Oct 27th, 2008, 9:37 am

Re: They fought for our freedom

Postby dle » Feb 2nd, 2018, 12:21 pm

"I was prepared to be killed in action," said Brock Blaszczyk, a former corporal who lost his left leg to a roadside bomb in Afghanistan. "What I wasn't prepared for, Mr. Prime Minister, is Canada turning its back on me."

Trudeau thanked the man for his service and said his frustration and anger are justifiable.

To some shouts and boos from the crowd, he defended his government's changes to veteran pensions, saying they shift the emphasis from lump payments to long-term services.

"We have significantly invested in services, rehabilitation support, investments in training and support for caregivers and families."

Trudeau said that program spending must be taken into account.

"Why are we still fighting against certain veteran's groups in court? Because they are asking for more than we are able to give right now," Trudeau said


These are Justin Trudeau's words at a meeting in Edmonton.....

https://www.castanet.net/edition/news-s ... htm#217869


This is reprehensible to me on so many levels. I am a Liberal, I voted for Trudeau. These words are my problem: Because they are asking for more than we are able to give right now. I am hanging my head in shame to hear those words come out of our Prime Minister's mouth.

The vet he is responding to gave a leg, and was fully prepared to give his life.

Catsumi likes this post.
dle
Board Meister
 
Posts: 639
Likes: 375 posts
Liked in: 620 posts
Joined: Nov 14th, 2005, 12:29 pm

Re: They fought for our freedom

Postby Ptolemy Soter » Feb 3rd, 2018, 1:22 am

Those were horrible times, whatever way people spin it.

My family never had anyone who fought for the Allies, in either war. The opposition, actually. Recently, a well-respected veteran in the family died. He fought for Germany in the second war. So did his brothers, who all died in the war. Strangely, he didn’t hesitate to tell part of his story. He left out the gritty details for obvious reasons. He was always a decent man who tried to do the right thing and had no problem damning the NSDAP’s garbage. He told me to never listen to fanatical politicians, and fall for their lies like so many young people did in his day. We all knew this stuff tortured him, but he was a tough guy who could last through anything thrown at him. I recall his recounting that no one who hasn’t experienced war can fathom the dread of battle. How people :cuss: ssed themselves and cried for an end to it all.

He was still a teenager when he enlisted to fight the Soviets. He himself said it was against his better judgement, although conscription was becoming more frequent. Teenagers can’t be expected to make good decisions. At some point his division was encircled, so he and some others fought their way out in the night, and ran to the Americans to surrender. I can’t imagine how terrifying it must have been to fight in the Eastern Front. The Soviets made sacrifices people here can’t comprehend, as we’ve never experienced a total war.

Anyways, every veteran deserves to have their story told, no matter who they fought for. I don’t support the NSDAP and what they did, obviously, but I still recognize that it must take a lot for someone to put their only life on the line.
Moin!

Fortune favours the bold!

3 people like this post.
User avatar
Ptolemy Soter
Fledgling
 
Posts: 195
Likes: 159 posts
Liked in: 108 posts
Joined: Feb 26th, 2016, 5:15 pm
Location: The eternal blue sky.

Re: They fought for our freedom

Postby unclemarty » Feb 4th, 2018, 5:58 pm

give.jpg
tic...toc...tic...toc...

"Jerusalem is a port city on the shore of eternity." - Yehuda Amichai

2 people like this post.
User avatar
unclemarty
Board Meister
 
Posts: 591
Likes: 18 posts
Liked in: 44 posts
Joined: Jul 23rd, 2008, 6:21 pm

Re: They fought for our freedom

Postby Omnitheo » Feb 7th, 2018, 6:37 pm

I always thought “In all thy son’s command” was referring to Jesus. After all we already have “god keep our land”

The fact that “thy” is used in favour of “your” suggests this as thy is the singular form of your. Meanwhile the lyrics do specifically use plurals later such as “our”.

I don’t think the new lyrics really make sense, but I feel that everyone is arguing over changes to lyrics nobody every really understood fully anyways.
"The Charter of Rights and Freedoms protects all Canadians, every one of us, even when it is uncomfortable."
- Justin Trudeau
User avatar
Omnitheo
Lord of the Board
 
Posts: 3652
Likes: 5289 posts
Liked in: 2620 posts
Joined: Jul 19th, 2011, 9:10 am

Re: They fought for our freedom

Postby sobrohusfat » Feb 7th, 2018, 9:15 pm

Omnitheo wrote:...lyrics nobody every really understood fully anyways.


that's weird

I learned the anthem when i was a wee lad
first in French - then in English when i was 8
Understood them both just fine


*removed*
Last edited by ferri on Feb 8th, 2018, 1:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Keep it civil please! Thanks!
"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." - Mark Twain
User avatar
sobrohusfat
Lord of the Board
 
Posts: 4053
Likes: 1175 posts
Liked in: 1509 posts
Joined: Jul 1st, 2008, 11:42 pm

Re: They fought for our freedom

Postby dle » Feb 9th, 2018, 11:15 am

https://www.castanet.net/edition/news-s ... htm#218133

Mr, Dirks, I hope you read these posts. I for one would like to thank you for a very insightful letter. You have hit pretty much every point I've ever thought about on this issue - and I'm not military. I am just a person who is very thankful we have people who will do the jobs our soldiers do.

I can't for the LIFE of me, which is what our soldiers protect, fathom how our vets have come to be treated in this fashion. Our Prime Minister's comment on how the vets are asking for "more than we can afford to give" had me literally sputtering and had me looking at Mr. Trudeau in a whole new light let me tell you. I voted for him - never had my doubts that it was the right decision for me, that he was coming from a place I wanted to see us head as a Country. Sadly, I might even go so far now as to say maybe he "wasn't ready" after all. This was a HUGE insult on his part, totally without thought process, and totally unbecoming his position as our Prime Minister. There are some policies of his I agree with and I think are good and forward-thinking. However, his, and the rest of our Federal officials', policy on our veterans' pensions is embarrassing to say the least.

Mr. Dirks, your comparison to the MP's pension is bang on. Government officials do have an important place in our democratic world. However how the hell does our Government compare what they do (smile for the press, fight & argue in the House - and let's face it - most of that is posturing for show, etc and put in their time til they collect their unbelievably cushy pensions and perks), with men and women who agree to lay down their lives for us all? Who face gunfire and unbelievable horrors fighting for the good of mankind (yes, mankind, and hopefully our Mr. Prime Minister will just leave that alone? He has much bigger things to concern himself with).

Anyway, I will be following the vet's progress with regard to their pensions and will vote accordingly as this is a HUGE issue for me. Too much money has been given to others, and while it was nice to be able to help them, in my most awful dreams it never occurred to me it would come at the expense of our vets and for that I apologize for any part I might have played with my vote.
dle
Board Meister
 
Posts: 639
Likes: 375 posts
Liked in: 620 posts
Joined: Nov 14th, 2005, 12:29 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Canada

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests