Stupid is the new reality

[The Green Barbarian]

Good thread and it's been something that I've been harping on for a few years. Taking a step away from this applying to the pipeline debate, it can be directly applied to so many issues now that have sparked unnecessary, ill-informed outrage.
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Wow, as much as you and I disagree on issues, I'm surprised we agree on this one. That's pretty cool.

[FreeRights]

Wow, as much as you and I disagree on issues, I'm surprised we agree on this one. That's pretty cool.

Surprisingly, I get unfairly labeled as a hardcore leftist on here for some reason, but I do share some very right-of-centre points of view on a ton of issues.

But this particular thread is absolutely on mark.

[maple leaf]

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And I would say the opposite. People in this day are not informed and incredibly stupid, yet they demand that their stupidity be heard. In the old days, no one cared about pipelines being built, especially stupid opinionated people. Justin and his gang at least understands you have to provide these morons with the illusion that they are being heard. The Conservatives just didn't have the patience or tolerance for this stupidity from these morons, and that's why it was time for them to go.

You already said the opposite.And everyone is entitled to their opinion.There are always going to be some stupid people and some stupid opinionated people as we all see on here,some people who refuse to read anything that might challenge their thinking.But for those who want to be informed ,the tools available to get informed are there more today than they ever have.Years ago people didn't care about pipelines ,probably because they didn't even know there was one being built ,let alone any implications of what a project like that entails.People are waking up and getting informed on issues these days ,not the opposit.

[The Green Barbarian]

.And everyone is entitled to their opinion.

I agree. Have all of the opinions you want. But who cares what someone in BC thinks of a pipeline being built from Alberta to Ontario and then on to the Maritimes. Especially if they don't have a clue about pipelines, and just want to complain for the sake of complaining.

[The Green Barbarian]

The writing is on the wall for fossil fuels, it's getting harder and harder to ignore the environmental price,

Is it though? really? And what is the "environmental price?" The total amount of CO2 generated by Canada is a mouse-fart compared to China, the US and India. If you honestly believe in the man-made climate change myth, is the "environmental price" of pipelining oil across Canada really that high? Especially when weighed against the CO2 emitted by trains and trucks hauling it currently, and the real danger of another city being incinerated by a train derailment. I don't get the opposition to pipelines. All of the arguments against them make no sense. I guess Joe Oliver and I are just dinosaurs.

[The Green Barbarian]

So am I surprised that folks will use any excuse to block corporations when they can? Absolutely not.

The stupidity starts with the corporations. They are purposely run in a myopic manner, this quarter, next quarter maybe. The answer from Wall St. to the question: If you have an investment that you could make that would be in the long term interest of the company, but would drive the share price down by 1 cent, would you do it? No.

And so we have an impasse of shared stupidity.

So let me guess, your solution is to nationalize the pipelines. Why am I not surprised.

[Rwede]

I would say the opposite.People in this day and age are more informed and not stupid

No, I think people think they are more informed, but they have just been stuffed full of *bleep*.

For example, when I see Norm Farrell's op ed pieces posted as FACT on here, by people who think they KNOW something, it just confirms the dumbing down of society.

[FreeRights]

No, I think people think they are more informed, but they have just been stuffed full of *bleep*.

For example, when I see Norm Farrell's op ed pieces posted as FACT on here, by people who think they KNOW something, it just confirms the dumbing down of society.

I think it's actually more of a medium. I'd argue that there are more people who are more informed about more things, but it's far easier at the same time for uninformed people respond to something and spread their thoughts about something that they truly don't fully understand.

Information is out there - the internet has permitted a wealth of data at our fingertips, but a lot of it is also incorrect. I think a lot of people are very selective in the information that they retain - often, they have already made up their minds before fully researching a subject.

[alfred2]

it is true some people are very stupid, corrrder , may . mulcair etc.

[maple leaf]

Justin and his gang at least understands you have to provide these morons with the illusion that they are being heard. .

I don't want to derail your thread with Min wage but this is what makes government look stupid and ignorant when they attempt illusion to fool the people .Trudeau won't be able to pull off illusion with how smarter and informed people are today..People are getting smarter and not stupider about what governments try to pull off.
http://pacificgazette.blogspot.ca/2016/ ... -oral.html

[maple leaf]

No, I think people think they are more informed, but they have just been stuffed full of *bleep*.

For example, when I see Norm Farrell's op ed pieces posted as FACT on here, by people who think they KNOW something, it just confirms the dumbing down of society.

Or example what people post from Ezra as fact.

fixed typo;

[The Green Barbarian]

.Trudeau won't be able to pull off illusion with how smarter and informed people are today..

well as I see it, either the pipeline gets built or it doesn't. So if it gets built, a lot of naive people who just want our society to "get off of oil!!!" at any price are going to be mad. If it doesn't get built, then a lot of people who just want to see our oil staying in Canada instead of coming from Saudi Arabia are going to be mad. You will never make everyone happy. I am just relating what I witnessed on Power and Politics yesterday, and what I heard was the Pembina lady saying that she was happy with the current Liberal approach, which is to listen to every doom and gloom nay-sayer (and then ignoring them), something Joe Oliver just didn't have the stomach to do, which I believe is one of the biggest reasons his party is no longer in government.

[The Green Barbarian]

*removed*

[hobbyguy]

Nope. I have never advocated for nationalizing pipelines.

What I am saying is that the starting point should be what is in the public and national interest. The current situation is that the starting point is what corporations, mostly foreign owned, want. That is backwards.

Reality: most corporations are stupid, even though they are run by bright people. Symptomatic of that is that the lion's share of advances/innovations in modern times come from small/medium businesses and government. All that the big corporations have going for them is politically bought advantage and big pools of capital. They tend to be run by the very least creative people in our society - bean counters. (No disrespect to bean counters out there, but bean counting is not very creative.)

So what you want is a situation where the public interest and national interest are defined first, and then the corporate players determine if they want to participate. That way long term interests of all are included from the start.

[Jx3]

You hit the nail on the head there. I think the rise of social media in our lives and sadly yes, even message boards like this one, permit people to essentially become outraged and comment on topics that they don't fully understand. There's a reason that the vast majority of threads on this website, I read but do not comment on - because I'm far from understanding some of the issues, let alone in a position to comment on them.

These problems make our government's job much harder if they feel that they need unilateral support from coast to coast for something that affects only a portion of the country. Pipelines in Ontario, or even changing recommended verbage in government forms in Ontario - the only polls that should matter, are the ones in Ontario. Another example is the wolf culling in BC - there are many very legitimate, well thought out reasons for conducting it, but people from other parts of Canada and in the US selectively hear that BC is culling wolves and the immediate PETA-animal cruelty response comes out, again without understanding the issues fully.

I'm all for freedom of expression, and have never had a problem with an ill-informed person commenting on something. But the line should be drawn there - anybody can comment, but decisionmakers shouldn't have to necessarily listen.

10/10

Well said.