NDP oust Mulcair after contentious convention

[Urbane]

all you had to do was watch a bit of the convention to see how truly loony the backbone of the NDP are. It makes you wonder how they are able to stay so disconnected from the real world, even with social media and the internet so easily accessible. It was high comedy though to watch some of the screeching and yelling. The NDP sure knows how to get emotional, especially about completely useless and really bad ideas.

I watched for five minutes. An Air Canada union rep asked delegates to support some motion that would bring AC jobs back to Canada (understandable) and then someone else got up to urge delegates to vote against it because airplanes use fossil fuel. That party is in one big mess.

[The Green Barbarian]

I watched for five minutes. An Air Canada union rep asked delegates to support some motion that would bring AC jobs back to Canada (understandable) and then someone else got up to urge delegates to vote against it because airplanes use fossil fuel. That party is in one big mess.

I think you just summed up the NDP's main issue. They can't reconcile their enviro-loon faction that wants to destroy the economy at all costs with their unionized base. Which is why a lot of the union vote has migrated away from the NDP to the Liberals. We saw it in the last provincial election. Adrian Dix, in one stupid moment, bent to the pressure from the Green faction and announced he wanted to kill thousands of union jobs, and then was dumb-founded when those union votes left him in droves.

Until the whacko-lunatic enviros in the NDP are willing to meet even the somewhat rationale half-way on their policies, the NDP is adrift, unelectable and direction-less.

[twobits]

Until the whacko-lunatic enviros in the NDP are willing to meet even the somewhat rationale half-way on their policies, the NDP is adrift, unelectable and direction-less.

There is no compromise possible from those lunatic Suzuki cultists. They only vote NDP in the hope of some miracle win even though the NDP is too capitalist friendly in their minds.
The good thing about them is that no matter how their vote drifts between the NDP and Green Party, neither will form a Gov't in Canada for decades to come.

[Merry]

While the rejection of Mulcair was not entirely unexpected, it was most definitely a mistake if the NDP is hoping to make a comeback in the next Federal election.

Although most Canadians do believe in environmental sustainability, they expect it to be implemented in a measured way that will not result in huge job losses. Because, at the end of the day, it's no good having a pristine environment if you can't afford to keep a roof over your head, or put food on your table.

It's easy for idealistic folks who work in professions which are not seen as being a threat to our environment (such as social work) to have unrealistic expectations about what is possible when it comes to making environmental laws that (in their minds) won't hurt our economy. Because when you don't feel your own ability to make a living is in jeopardy, you're much more likely to "take the high road" on such issues. But what such folks fail to see is that, if the Canadian economy isn't doing well, then the Canadian Government can no longer afford to pay for the services such folk provide.

In addition, it is nothing short of hypocritical for folks who utilize all the products our industries produce (such as smart phones, and computers, to mention just a few) to then denigrate those very same industries (such as mining), and all those who work for them.

If we truly care about our environment, instead of trying to return our civilization back to the "dark ages", we should be trying to get industries to "clean up their act" and produce whatever it is that they produce in as environmentally sustainable way as possible. And that will never happen if we keep electing Governments that are so "business friendly" that all they care about is the "bottom line".

By relegating the NDP to continue in perpetual opposition, the radical left leaning Party members have hurt rather than helped the environment. Because with the NDP out of the picture, our chances of ever having a Government in power that takes a more "balanced" view of such things, is much less likely. Stephen Harper was far too right wing to ever seriously consider such a balanced approach, and I'm not convinced the current Conservative Party "brass" is any better. And our current Liberal Government is far too left leaning to take a "balanced" middle of the road view either. Because there are too many in our current Government who share the views of some of those folks who have hijacked the NDP, for us to ever see a "middle of the road" approach to policies about things like pipelines.

If we leave our oil in the ground (as some advocate) we'll just end up buying more oil from other countries. Which means we'll hurt our economy, without seeing the kind of environmental benefit that some hope for. And, if we continue to oppose pipelines, any oil we do produce will continue to be transported via road and rail, which is far more harmful to the environment than utilizing pipelines. So, for those reasons, those who support such policies are misguided at best, and just plain foolish at worst.

Tom Mulcair was this countries best chance for a more "middle of the road" approach to such issues. And yet both Canadians, and his own Party, rejected him and his centrist views. I think that history will show that it was a mistake to do so.

[Glacier]

I watched for five minutes. An Air Canada union rep asked delegates to support some motion that would bring AC jobs back to Canada (understandable) and then someone else got up to urge delegates to vote against it because airplanes use fossil fuel. That party is in one big mess.

As I've pointed out before, the NDP is a coalition of competing interests (as all parties are). We saw this in BC with the Union Left and the Environmentalist Left trying to undermine each other. Unions support jobs that pay good money, and those are largely based in resource extraction. Environmentalists strongly oppose most sectors that pay union wages. Pretty much the only sector they both agree needs to be expanded for mutual gain is government. A leader that wants to move the party to the centre where government spending is thought of as something that should be kept in check is going to draw the knives from both groups.

I am going out on a limb here, and predicting Nathan Cullen will be the next leader of the NDP.

[Urbane]

Jen Gerson from the National Post has summed it up well. How serious are the NDP about forming government? Not very.

Stephen Lewis wants the party to debate and adopt a 1,300-word anti-capitalist manifesto about transitioning to sustainable energy, somehow.

Rachel Notley has formed government and holds power.

Stephen Lewis has not, and will never.

Nature doesn’t create metaphors more perfect than this.

When that very same Leap Manifesto resolution hit the convention floor on Sunday morning, NDP delegates didn’t choose Rachel Notley. They chose Stephen Lewis. And in doing so, they advertised just how seriously they expect to be taken in a bid for government. The answer: Not very.

By voting in favour of a motion to debate the manifesto at the riding association level — thus making it the framework that will guide the party’s renewal — not only did the federal party rank-and-file do real harm to Notley’s credibility in Alberta, they also demonstrated they are seeking not governance, but revolution. Inspired by the emergence (if not actual success) of Bernie Sanders and Jeremy Corbyn, they proved they’re not looking for practical solutions to climate change or poverty, but rather treating politics as experiential.

Full column: http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canad ... hel-notley

[Donald G]

Unread postby Glacier » 12 minutes ago

I am going out on a limb here, and predicting Nathan Cullen will be the next leader of the NDP.

I do not think it matters who the next leader of the Federal or Provincial NDP are. BC and Alberta are classic examples of leaders having to constantly having to run back and forth between the far left and the NDP centralists. Just as in Alberta where a few bills were passed to placate the far left faction the ratings of the party dropped to the point where they have absolutely no chance of forming the next government.

That, in spite of an intense Province wide dislike for the old PC party, they could only get elected by professing to have moved to the center. Without being able to sell that proverbial lie they would not have been elected. Alberta will not soon forget that they lied about that issue.

[The Green Barbarian]

The problem with the Leap Manifesto is not that it is too radical per se, it’s that it is vacuous and dumb. It heralds the evils of climate change without any serious or viable proposals to manage that problem; it rails against privately run resource companies while winking vaguely at “innovative ownership structures, democratically run.” It trumpets the need to transition to a green economy without providing any clarity about exactly how government policy can or should affect that shift.

It all sounds lovely, but there is no there there. Surely it has escaped no one that only the Green Party and a faction of the NDP has taken the manifesto at all seriously since it was launched last year? The Leap Manifesto needed the credibility of the NDP more than the NDP needed the Leap Manifesto.

Taken from the Gerson article.

Hee hee - this was awesome.

[The Green Barbarian]

While the rejection of Mulcair was not entirely unexpected, it was most definitely a mistake if the NDP is hoping to make a comeback in the next Federal election.
.

Good post Merry, but after all of the time wasted in 2015 trying to explain to you that this was exactly what was going to happen, and you playing the deliberately blind and obtuse card over and over again, it's tough not to say this: "I TOLD YOU SO". Mulcair never had a chance. The NDP knows how to do only two things well - how not to get elected, and how to blame the leader instead of their own policies for why they didn't get elected. You kept saying that the days of the loony radical left NDP were over, and that there was no way they would ever go back. You totally don't get just how crazy the NDP truly is. Crazy, and stupid. And if this knifing of Mulcair doesn't make you see it, nothing will.

[alfred2]

how do you fly a jet without fuel? stupid lewis and others must of walked to the convention.

[Merry]

Good post Merry, but after all of the time wasted in 2015 trying to explain to you that this was exactly what was going to happen, and you playing the deliberately blind and obtuse card over and over again, it's tough not to say this: "I TOLD YOU SO". Mulcair never had a chance. The NDP knows how to do only two things well - how not to get elected, and how to blame the leader instead of their own policies for why they didn't get elected. You kept saying that the days of the loony radical left NDP were over, and that there was no way they would ever go back. You totally don't get just how crazy the NDP truly is. Crazy, and stupid. And if this knifing of Mulcair doesn't make you see it, nothing will.

The problem with you being "right" GB is that it now leaves me wondering who to support in the next election. In the past I used to be a Progressive Conservative, and only abandoned them when Harper took over and started adopting mean spirited policies that I simply couldn't stomach. But I've never been a Liberal, because I don't trust them to do what they say they will do. Experience has taught me better. Besides which, Trudeau is much more of a "leftie" than Mulcair ever was. And I'm more of a just left of centre character myself.

I still believe that if Canada had given Mulcair a chance, that the left of centre NDP supporters would have carried the day, and they would have been a good Government. BUT, because they lost the election, that gave the left wing radical People the opportunity to reclaim centre stage, and now they'll be cast into oblivion again for the foreseeable future. They've sure lost my vote.

But that still leaves me a political orphan for the next election, unless things change a lot.

IF the Cons move closer to the centre, and drop all the ultra right person stuff, they'd be my first choice. But that's a big IF when you consider the candidates likely running to replace Harper.

[Omnitheo]

Merry! Where've you been I missed you.

You're right. Mulcair was a voice of reason for sure. The problem this election was that the Liberals and NDP were too similar across the board. And in the battle for the hearts and minds of voters he just didn't quite have the charisma of Trudeau. Layton may have proved differently.

The next election will certainly be interesting. It will certainly depend on who takes the helm at the NDP and what sort of direction they wish to lead the party in. Hopefully back left a bit. We still have no idea for the Conservatives either. And only time will tell how strongly Canadians resonate with Trudeau's liberal party.

I feel that unless Trudeau does something spectacularly wrong (and I'm not talking the relative nonesense some of you bring up here), both candidates may have a strong uphil battle before them to bring their party to power.

[twobits]

how do you fly a jet without fuel? stupid lewis and others must of walked to the convention.

There were reports of several saddled Burro's tied up outside the convention center with bumper stickers slapped on their azz (pun intended) that said "Methane from renewable resources".

[The Green Barbarian]

I feel that unless Trudeau does something spectacularly wrong (and I'm not talking the relative nonesense some of you bring up here), .

Yes, only in Canada could people pointing out how dumb it is to run up a $30 billion deficit and how dishonest a party is for delivering 3x the size of deficit they promised during the election just be dismissed as talking about "relative nonsense" by apologists. Just mind-boggling.

[Omnitheo]

going over budget is a fairly common occurrence for all parties. A deficit of 30B is relatively minor in comparison with the value of Canada's economy. In fact it's a similar percentage of the GDP as the percent of people in BC earning minimum wage. We already know you think one of these is too small a percentage to be relevant.