Albertans want private schools to fund themselves

[Muzza]

"The B.C. government is allocating $300 million to independent schools while public schools are being closed."

And how much is the government allocating to the public school system. You forgot to mention that part...... I'm sure it is much, much, much more......

[occasional thoughts]

Not at all my point. It is the B.C. Retired Teachers Association's point, and I was critiquing it.

[Dawggss]

As for the taunting suggestion of "refunding taxes to those who use private schools", one has to shake their head and wonder about logic.
I suppose someone who doesn't have a vehicle should have their taxes that service public highways returned also?
What about my tax bill for fire and paramedic services - never used them - do I get $ back also?
It obviously doesn't work that way.
And to imply that those who choose an alternative to public education, for whatever reason, should be reimbursed is myopic at best. We do have a 'social contract' that we all live with and under.

By the way - why does society 'need' independent / private schools in the first place?
If the common educational goal of all schools is to help produce literate, informed, trainable, functioning members of society - how does removing a % of students to 'independent' track schools benefit the society as a whole? Especially if the curriculum varies?

Why would anyone start an independent school?
Why would you send you child to one - away from your fellow community children? I remember neighbor children attending a Separate (Catholic) school - a true duplication of facilities, resources - for what benefit?
Here comes the controversial point!!
I'm going to,suggest there are several potential reasons for private schools, and most of them are not in the interest of societal growth and improvement:
Profit (for school operators through the grants, sponsors and tuitions) - this is a business after all, some even have investors;
Pride (for parents who can claim special treatment, status, etc), - if it helps their child, I can understand;
Philosophy (believe in certain ideological principles of education or religion and the importance of adhering to those principles); and finally the most controversial one -
Prejudice ("I don't want my kids associating with those people", or "my child is special" - btw, all children are in their own way - "and needs to be given advantages which I can pay for". Ironically many of these People are NOT prepared to pay for such programs through taxes). This idea is NOT a nice thing to say, but it does linger in the shadows and needs to be addressed!
How often have we heard parents suggest sending their child to a charter or French immersion school - not for the schools potential educational benefits, but for the belief their child will be with a 'better group of classmates'. Speaking French? Not always the main goal.

The tuitions vary, but are certainly enough to cause a limitation to those who can attend. Sort of a 'filtering effect'.
I find it some what contradictory that many rail against education (and health care expenditures) with the line that "throwing money at it won't solve the problems". Okay. Then I read advertising for independent/private schools and inevitably one of the first claims they all make is "smaller class sizes, resulting in better teacher-student contact and improved learning".
Wow.
What if that same principle were applied to public schools and class sizes reduced? It would cost more $ - need to hire more teachers is the only way to reduce class sizes! Guess what? Taxes would go up! So can't do that. Instead people agree to pay potential more $ in tuitions then their property taxes would increase within the community tax roll - and remove their children from the public schools.

At the end of the day what we have created is a more fragmented community, differing standards of basic education, and misconceptions that benefit no one.
And the top 10% of our population (3.5 million) is going to compete and best the top 10% from China and India (250 million people) without a strong, common, well supported educational background??? What about the other 90%? Perhaps we need to recognize the importance of working for societal growth, and not limit our total national potential.

[rustled]

... why does society 'need' independent / private schools in the first place?
If the common educational goal of all schools is to help produce literate, informed, trainable, functioning members of society - how does removing a % of students to 'independent' track schools benefit the society as a whole? Especially if the curriculum varies?...

I once thought as you did and was quite the champion of the public school system. As my children progressed through the K-12 system, and most particularly as I worked within it, I came to understand why we need alternatives.

You've missed the primary reason many parents opt for one of those alternatives: their experience with the public system has left them completely frustrated. The frustration often stems from the way the "wants" of the staff (rules of seniority, use of available leave time, etc.) all come before the real needs of the students. When this impacts your child, especially if it happens regularly or is ongoing, and yet there's nothing you can do about it, you feel compelled to seek alternatives.

This frustration with skewed priorities is compounded by the disinterest of other parents. We're not talking about some kind of weird prejudice or classism here. There are simply too many parents who treat the public education system like a daycare and don't much care whether their children can multiply or divide, comprehend a paragraph or express themselves in writing. But they fully expect their children to be awarded good grades on each and every report card, regardless of whether or not they've mastered a skill. These parents care even less when their little darlings are making it difficult for other students to learn. I can assure you from experience that when your child is being impacted by this, there is often no reasonable option in the public system for dealing with it. While some schools and some staff in the public system are far more cooperative than others, their hands are tied.

It's fine to say the parents who have reasonable expectations around their children's educational environment and outcomes should work with the public system to improve it. As someone who tried for years to help concerned parents do just this, I can assure you that in many cases, any significant change parents can help bring about will happen too far in the future for their own child's benefit.

If any of my grandchildren were impacted the way I saw some children impacted, I'd certainly support their parents choosing to provide them with an alternative. As a taxpayer, I expect the government to continue to have a say in the curriculum for any school receiving any public funding, which in itself acts as something of a safeguard for the students in independent schools. And I believe we as a society have a responsibility to do what we can to ensure there are reasonable educational opportunities for all.

[Dawggss]

re: rustled's comment
I do not seek to argue nor disagree with you, but must suggest that when you say I have missed the reason for private schools - I must respond by suggesting you have taken the discussion in a direction I didn't - at the end of the day into a view beyond schools and into a much larger discussion of societal insensitivity, and decline within citizenship.
In this area I would agree - with much remorse - that there are many members in society that have chosen to not participate in maintaining norms of behavior, conduct and cooperation between citizens. This is truly sad - it will do little to end intolerances, fears, prejudices and biases.
I can understand frustration when this is encountered in a child's school due to the parental influences causing educational malfunction. Wish there was a magic wand for that - I just am concerned that from what I have experienced the private/independent school route is not that magic wand.

When we look at this larger society issue I must question how these concerns can be changed by encouraging role models and leaders for change (yourself included) to opt out of the mainstream social institutions (such as public education)?
You have missed one of my key concerns - the removal of those who are actively providing growth and reinforcement of positive institutions, by leaving public education to private/independent schools, does not benefit the whole.
If we are becoming concerned only with our self - and remove ourselves - we have made a conscious choice to reject and refuse to correct/improve through society's institutions.
The next danger is the spread of misinformation or fears - as facts; or in the case of someone who has paid $$ for a private choice, the need to justify this choice in any way possible.

I'm not disagreeing with your premises - I'm concerned that too many people by virtue of attending school for 12 +/- years believe they are 'experts' in the field. This is much different than being informed.

I do recall an Alberta Premier recently dismissing opinions from public (and private) school teachers regarding proposed curriculum changes as merely "... a special interest group". Amazing. If your educators are not interested in education, we are all doomed!
Hope you see my point here.
There is so much good going on in schools - there is so much frustration on all parties - there are issues and concerns (special education is only one) - and fragmenting the whole, in my opinion is not the way to achieve gains.

[rustled]

The practical reality is that most parents, regardless of how concerned they may be for society at large, have too little time to do what you are suggesting they should do. They can work to change society, or they can work with their current realities to best meet the needs of their own children. As they say, charity begins at home, and one must pick the battles that matter most.

Here in BC, I was witness to the push to get the involved and engaged parents out of our schools. (That push came at the behest of the unions.) The government tried to provide parents with a voice (PACs) and funding (gaming grants) and the staff soon saw how easily they could manipulate both to their own advantage. The government then initiated School Planning Councils. Neither model worked well, because parents who wanted to do anything other than fundraise for staff-driven initiatives quickly realized that their efforts amounted to a hill of beans when their objectives conflicted with those of the unions.

The public at large is unaware of, and not interested in, the issues parents face, and there is no mechanism through which they can assert themselves as an entity worthy of being heard.

Locally elected school boards often include the trustees who choose to focus on the larger societal issues. Some are primarily interested in political agendas, but many boards are fortunate to have a few parents whose primary concern is, and has always been, providing the best possible educational experience for all of our students. Here in Penticton, we have routinely seen these good people denigrated by those with political and non-educational agendas, like keeping an auditorium or a gymnasium or a school building open regardless of the affect that would have on instructional services.

The ideal of communities doing what's best to meet the instructional needs of students no longer exists. If we truly wish to see a public education system which puts the needs of students first, we need to restore balance, ensuring the truly concerned parents, those truly focused on the needs of students, have a strong and effective voice. Working for over a decade toward that end, I came to this conclusion:

Parents have both the right and the responsibility to first see to the real and immediate needs of their own children. Changing the world cannot be their primary concern.