Hunters won't get killing tool

[occasional thoughts]

http://www.castanet.net/news/Canada/168 ... R-15-rifle

Good for the Liberals in Ottawa for once. the firearm for killing children in Connecticut and gays in Orlando won't be available to use in Canada on Bambi.

Trouble is, I fear the pro-gun lobby is ultimately correct; weapons can be "banned" but it just puts ownership of them into the deeper background and in the hands of crooks, criminals and other scofflaws. I'm glad we don't have a "2nd Amendment" in Canada, but it seems the only effective defence from killers, crazies, terrorists and other misc. intellectual trash is to be armed yourself, just like the NRA says. What is our civilization coming to?

[LTD]

theres pleeenty of other rifles for killing children and ''gays'' as you put it, but that's not what hunters use them for this wont change a thing

[Rosemary1]

Totally support ban. There will always be criminals and some deranged who may get their hands on such weapons illegally, s but why make it easier for them. It about deterrence and risk reduction.

[Gone_Fishin]

http://www.castanet.net/news/Canada/168253/Hunters-want-AR-15-rifle

Good for the Liberals in Ottawa for once. the firearm for killing children in Connecticut and gays in Orlando won't be available to use in Canada on Bambi.

Trouble is, I fear the pro-gun lobby is ultimately correct; weapons can be "banned" but it just puts ownership of them into the deeper background and in the hands of crooks, criminals and other scofflaws. I'm glad we don't have a "2nd Amendment" in Canada, but it seems the only effective defence from killers, crazies, terrorists and other misc. intellectual trash is to be armed yourself, just like the NRA says. What is our civilization coming to?

Too bad for your whole story that Mateen didn't use an AR 15 in Orlando. He used a Sig Sauer MCX, which is a completely different rifle with a completely different function from an AR 15. The two are not even remotely similar - well, they are both black in colour.

But why mess with a good storyline? Lie about it to fulfill a political agenda instead of addressing the actual problem.

[Smurf]

Is it possible it will just create another market for criminals to make money on?

[Smurf]

Actually I hunted for years and have no idea why people would want something like that unless they can't shoot. I was given a single shot 22 when I was quite young and had to learn how to make a kill with one good shot before I graduated to anything better. Once I had learned how to shoot I turned in gophers for shells. If I ran short or used them up some other way I had to pay for them out of my allowance. I consider these guns either toys or killing tools, not real hunting tools. At the very least they should be limited to gun ranges only.

[techrtr]

How many times have you ever heard of a mass shooting in the US being stopped by a bystander who just happened to be armed? Let's face it, when someone opens up with an assault rifle, no one is going all Clint Eastwood on them - they're hiding or getting shot and killed like everyone else in the room. What the US needs to do is make it really hard for people to get their hands on murder machines so that some mentally ill guy can't just do down to his local gun shop and buy one on impulse and actually use it. Putting more guns in the hands of "law abiding" citizens isn't the answer, making guns harder to obtain is.

I saw something on the news this morning that said the Conservatives think that hunters should be able to possess AR-15 type weapons again. I don't like the Libs but if that's true, I've just become a lifelong Liberal supporter.

After what happened in Orlando, it's mind boggling to me that some idiot in Canada would even bring this issue up.

[Hurtlander]

In my opinion a 223 caliber, semi-auto or not, is not a good hunting caliber for game, It's perfectly good for shooting varmits in a wide open field or pasture, or for varmits eating your chickens...Its simply not a good deer rifle unless you ONLY shoot deer in a wide open field free of any brush or tree branches...real hunters understand this.
Most people want a military looking semi-auto to compensate for a lack of real masculinity, the same type of insecure male that drives a 4x4 with an 8 inch lift and oversize tires.

[Rwede]

How many times have you ever heard of a mass shooting in the US being stopped by a bystander who just happened to be armed? Let's face it, when someone opens up with an assault rifle, no one is going all Clint Eastwood on them - they're hiding or getting shot and killed like everyone else in the room. What the US needs to do is make it really hard for people to get their hands on murder machines so that some mentally ill guy can't just do down to his local gun shop and buy one on impulse and actually use it. Putting more guns in the hands of "law abiding" citizens isn't the answer, making guns harder to obtain is.

Just a small sampling. There are many, many more.

Oct. 1, 1997
Luke Woodham fatally stabbed his mother at home before opening fire at his high school, killing two students and injuring seven others. The attack was stopped when Assistant Principal Joel Myrick retrieved his .45 caliber handgun from his truck and confronted Woodham, detaining him until authorities could arrive.
Myrick’s action stopped Woodham from going across the street to the middle school as he had planned.

April 24, 1998
A 14-year-old student showed up to his middle school dance carrying a .25-caliber pistol. He opened fire inside the dance, killing one teacher and wounding another as well as two students. The rampage ended when James Strand, owner of the banquet hall the dance was happening in, grabbed his personal shotgun and confronted the 14-year-old killer. Strand held the teen at gunpoint for 11 minutes before finally getting him to drop the weapon and lie on the ground and searching him for additional weapons.

Jan. 16, 2002
A 43-year-old former student armed with a .380 handgun killed Dean Anthony Sutin and Professor Thomas Blackwell with point blank shots and went on to kill fellow student Angela Dales as well as wounding three others before being confronted at gunpoint by law students Tracy Bridges, a county sheriff’s deputy, and Mikael Gross, a police officer, after retrieving their personal handguns from their vehicles. The gunman was then apprehended by other students.
Gross and Bridges lost valuable response time accessing their handguns because of the law school’s standing as a gun-free zone.

Dec. 9, 2007
2 parishioners were killed and 3 wounded when a gunman toting a Bushmaster AR-15 opened fire at New Hope Church. Hearing the rifle fire, Jeanne Assam grabbed her personal concealed carry firearm and confronted the gunman from a distance of 20 yards. According to 5280 Magazine:
She fires five quick shots. Murray falls backward. Assam moves to the middle of the corridor and rushes forward. She’s a few dozen feet from Murray now, exposed in the middle of the hallway. “Drop your weapon, or I will kill you!” she yells. Murray sits up to face her. He’s still holding the rifle. Boom-boom-boom. Bullets rip past her and pepper a wall. While Murray shoots, Assam fires three times.
Through the haze of gun smoke, Assam sees the man struggling on the floor. He props his head against a wall. Her weapon is up, trained on the man. She sees his hands moving near his shoulder. He’s trying to pull the pin on a grenade. He’s going to kill everyone around here, Assam thinks. She instinctively steps back and fires two more shots.

May 27, 2010
A 79-year-old man entered an AT&T store in New York Mills, New York carrying a .357 magnum revolver in his hand and a list of employees he planned to kill in his pocket. Hearing the hand cannon go off, Donald J. Moore drew his own personal weapon and killed the gunman before he could complete his plan. One employee was wounded in the shooting.

August 30, 2010
When a 62-year-old man armed with two handguns forced his way into Sullivan Central High School in Tennessee, he was immediately engaged by School Resource Officer Carolyn Gudger. Gudger put her body between the gunman and a student and started what would turn out to be a more than 10 minute gun-to-gun encounter. Gudger used the time to slowly move the man to a less crowded part of the school. When other officers arrived on the scene, a brief gun battle erupted ending with the gunman mortally wounded.

March 25, 2012
Aaron Guyton was inside the recreation building of his grandfather’s church when he saw Jessie Gates, a member of the congregation, pulling a shotgun from his vehicle. Guyton leapt into action, locking the doors to the church where services were going on. Gates kicked in the door and pointed the shotgun at Rev. Henry Guyton and several parishioners. Drawing his concealed handgun, the younger Guyton held Gates at gunpoint while two members of the church took him to the ground. Rev. Guyton then took the shotgun from his hand.

Dec. 11, 2012
Two people were killed and a third was seriously wounded at Clackamas Town Center near Portland, Oregon when a rifle-toting gunman opened fire in in the busy food court. Nick Meli, a shopper in the mall, drew a personally owned firearm on the gunman, who immediately retreated to a service corridor and killed himself. Meli did not fire his weapon for fear of striking bystanders yet authorities say his actions caused the gunman to cease his attack and end his own life.

January 11, 2014
After being refused entry to the strip club for belligerent behavior and racist comments earlir in the night, Thomas Elliott Hjelmeland returned carrying a handgun and wearing a Halloween mask. As soon as he entered the club, Hjelmeland opened fire, striking bouncer Brian Rizzo, a patron, and a waitress. Another bouncer, Jonathan Baer drew his concealed handgun and shot Hjelmeland, killing him.
Following the attack Baer posted to Facebook: “I did what I felt was right to stop the shooter…I carry every day, and will continue to, and will so with the hope that I will NEVER have to pull it out again.”

April 30, 2014
An irate former employee came to a construction site and opened fire on his co-workers. The site’s foreman, a Concealed Handgun License holder, drew his firearm and opened fire. Both men were wounded in the exchange of gunfire but the foreman’s actions ended the attack and no one else was wounded.

May 16, 2014
Armed with two handguns, a man entered the Cache Valley Hospital emergency room and began making demands. After demanding to see a doctor, he racked the slide on one of his handguns and told hospital employees “someone is going to die today”. While a security guard tried to keep the gunman’s focus on him, two corrections officers who happened to be at the hospital on an unrelated matter engaged from another direction. The gunman was shot three times and no other people were harmed.

July 25, 2014
A patient at a psychiatric clinic killed his case worker at point blank range and then turned his gun on his doctor, Lee Silverman, striking him several times. Before the gunman could leave the office and continue his rampage, Dr. Silverman drew his own concealed handgun and pumped three rounds into the gunman’s torso, mortally wounding him. Police and hospital staff hail Dr. Silverman as a hero and credit him with saving dozens of lives.

[JLives]

There are plenty of fully functional guns to be used as tools for hunting that AR15s and the Sig Sauer MCX don't need to be available as options. Or any firearm capable of killing lots of people quickly. Those weapons are wants not needs and the right to public safety trumps you wanting the weapons capable of bringing more death.

[Rwede]

In my opinion a 223 caliber, semi-auto or not, is not a good hunting caliber for game, It's perfectly good for shooting varmits in a wide open field or pasture, or for varmits eating your chickens...Its simply not a good deer rifle unless you ONLY shoot deer in a wide open field free of any brush or tree branches...real hunters understand this.
Most people want a military looking semi-auto to compensate for a lack of real masculinity, the same type of insecure male that drives a 4x4 with an 8 inch lift and oversize tires.

223 with today's premium ammo is a perfectly good hunting round for deer-sized and smaller game.

Shot placement is key to a quick, humane kill, and for many who are recoil shy, a smaller caliber rifle with mild recoil is far more effective than a larger caliber.

I'd rather see someone hunting with a firearm that they are comfortable and proficient with than with a big magnum with which they flinch when it comes time to make an important shot. All people are different in this regard.

I own rifles all the way from 22s to large magnums, and can shoot all well, but many smaller-framed persons are best suited to smaller calibers like the 223, 250, 25/06, etc.

Technology on the ammunition side has grown hugely in the past couple of decades, and with bonded and mono bullets we've seen big advances in the ability of smaller calibers to quickly and humanely dispatch game animals.

[Rwede]

There are plenty of fully functional guns to be used as tools for hunting that AR15s and the Sig Sauer MCX don't need to be available as options. Or any firearm capable of killing lots of people quickly. Those weapons are wants not needs and the right to public safety trumps you wanting the weapons capable of bringing more death.

AR 15s and MCXs are totally different rifles. They should not even be compared nor classified similarly.

[crybabycry]

Pardon my ignorance but how much more lethal is this gun than a normal hunting rifle?

They are legal to own here, aren't they?

I know it looks like a fully automatic assault rifle but is it, really? Aren't they limited to semi-auto and limited as to how many rounds they can hold in order to be legal in Canada?

If so, why would a hunter chose this particular gun over one designed specifically for hunting whatever game they are after? What advantage would it offer?

I'm not a hunter, these are just honest questions.

I just don't really see what difference it would make to the deer, for instance, which rifle it's just been killed with.

[Rwede]

Pardon my ignorance but how much more lethal is this gun than a normal hunting rifle?

They are legal to own here, aren't they?

I know it looks like a fully automatic assault rifle but is it, really? Aren't they limited to semi-auto and limited as to how many rounds they can hold in order to be legal in Canada?

If so, why would a hunter chose this particular gun over one designed specifically for hunting whatever game they are after? What advantage would it offer?

I'm not a hunter, these are just honest questions.

I just don't really see what difference it would make to the deer, for instance, which rifle it's just been killed with.

It's no more lethal than a hunting rifle.

They are legal to own.

It is not fully automatic. It cycles rounds no differently nor faster than a duck hunter's model 1100 shotgun. The law states that a semi-auto's magazine must be pinned to hold no more than 5 centerfire cartridges in Canada.

A hunter may prefer this rifle because it is compact and easy to maneuver in thick bush, and its low recoil may make that hunter a better shot with it, ensuring a quick, humane kill.

And you're right, the deer won't know any differently.

Thanks for asking to be informed. I like that you want to know more about something before passing judgment. I wish more people took your approach.

[JLives]

AR 15s and MCXs are totally different rifles. They should not even be compared nor classified similarly.

I know they are different but the similarity they do have is what I am focused on. That is giving someone the capability to kill more people quickly. We should do everything we can to reduce access to those sorts of weapons, regardless of brand or type.