First Nation Lays Land Claim Over Parliament Hill

[fluffy]

you do know land claims are as much a part of our charter as is freespeech right ?

The right to free speech is increasingly subject to abuse as well.

you do know that in legitamite land claims there is no recourse but to settle them right ?

Yes, in the case of legitimate land claims. Claiming that hunting and fishing a couple of hundred years ago is the basis for a legitimate claim is a huge stretch.

you do know your responce was bigoted right ? when you paint the whole persons with same brush that is the most basic description of racism right ?

The race card. Typical. I'm just commenting on how in similar situations a nice fat cheque seems to make the issue go away. At least for a time.

[jamapple]

I say let them "claim" it. Now, fight for it, like everyone else in history has done. If you win the war, you get to claim what you were fighting for. If not, you already lost it when you either "allowed" it to be taken from you, or you "lost" a fight to not let these so called outsiders take it away from you.

[hobbyguy]

What gets lost in this is very simple, we are all Canadians.

The exclusionary aspects of moves made with unreasonable land claims, and now a making a demand that the constitution be changed to give indigenous groups a permanent unelected voice in our national government, will not serve indigenous groups well. Those unwise and often frivolous moves create an "us and them" environment. Indigenous groups seem to like to stoke that, and then when they get a negative response decry the situation, when in some cases it is they that have created the environment in which the negative reactions can exist.

A more positive approach, which is to embrace being Canadians, and equality within our multicultural societal fabric, would serve all parties better. That means no more status than any other cultural group.

Within that comes the need to accept much, not all, of what the modern reality is. Yes, dissent can be part of that, but dissent as a Canadian, no more than any other cultural group dissents.

You can not turn the clock back.

[fluffy]

Not unlike other minorities who see nothing amiss with seeking special treatment in order to gain "equality".

[maryjane48]

how is it special treatment ? if you sign a contract and the other party doesnt fullfill their part of the c9ntract and you go to court and win , did you get special treatment or dod you get what you signed on to do ?

[fluffy]

Seriously, if everything went to your satisfaction, how would this play out ? What would be the end result ?

[fluffy]

how is it special treatment ?

I was speaking generally, not so much about this issue in particular. Should you wish to claim that First Nations people do not receive any special treatment we can certainly have that discussion, but that would likely require a new thread.

[hobbyguy]

There is a level of accommodation that is viable, and works to make Canada a better country.

When we reach the point that the "Indian Act" is repealed, the indigenous groups will be in a position to achieve true equality. I suspect, however, that some indigenous groups will not allow that. Which is a shame, because the groups that I have dealt with who would, have built a prosperous future for their members, while maintaining a strong sense of their own cultures and enriching all Canadians with that culture. I admit that it is only a small sample of indigenous groups that I have dealt with.

[maryjane48]

yes well i have talked to many of the first nations in bc . fluffy you cant call deals our govt made special treatment . thats just showing lack of understanding the issues . second once the treatys are settled the indian act is history . so if thats your goal i suggest you write our govts and tell them to get it going .

[fluffy]

fluffy you cant call deals our govt made special treatment .

Isn't that what I just did ? :)

The current situation is the result of decades of throwing money at a problem and calling it a solution. What has happened is that we have, in effect, created a welfare state of First Nations peoples that is doubly hard for them to rise out of. As hobbyguy says, there are some shining examples of what can be achieved but for the most part the government payment remains entwined with the so-called solution and too many bands are settling for the status quo.

Again I ask, how would you like to see the claim in Ottawa play out ?

[the truth]

yes well i have talked to many of the first nations in bc . fluffy you cant call deals our govt made special treatment . thats just showing lack of understanding the issues . second once the treatys are settled the indian act is history . so if thats your goal i suggest you write our govts and tell them to get it going .

who's kidding who here, you are first nations yourself.you tell us what you would like the govt too do

[Ken7]

There is a level of accommodation that is viable, and works to make Canada a better country.

When we reach the point that the "Indian Act" is repealed, the indigenous groups will be in a position to achieve true equality. I suspect, however, that some indigenous groups will not allow that. Which is a shame, because the groups that I have dealt with who would, have built a prosperous future for their members, while maintaining a strong sense of their own cultures and enriching all Canadians with that culture. I admit that it is only a small sample of indigenous groups that I have dealt with.

I you have never been there, you will not understand the Indian Act. Their very own people who have the power to provide for their people under the Act fail to do so. In reality, the treaties are for the rich, those who have the check book on the reserve, for family for relatives and close friends. Sadly, the Indian Act and Treaties mean nothing unless you fall into that group. Therefore, if it vanished next week, it would impact a small percentage of those who it was intended for.

Lastly, they have no interest in helping their own people, you can see that day in and day out. It's all about the counsel, their family and close friends. Many of you are being fooled, get to know those who have left the reserve as they did not want to starve and had no where to live.

[the truth]

and that's the truth...

[hobbyguy]

Ken, in different scenarios I have sort of seen both sides of the coin, but indeed I have not walked in those shoes.

In one region, I worked alongside members of an indigenous group, who once they got to know you a bit, were welcoming and generally their people were quite prosperous. The dances their community held occasionally were great.

In another, in a different role, I hired a young fellow into a good paying job. First thing he did when he got a couple of paychecks was to move his young family off the reserve. Said it was awful, but wouldn't speak of it much. Have to say that he was one of my best hires, did quality work and lots of it, absolutely reliable.

While my experiences do not by any means give me a deep insight, it seems to me that once we get past the stereotypes, we, as Canadians, have much more in common and far fewer differences.

[One to talk]

removed.