Carbon B.S.

[rustled]

Your opinion doesn't reflect the reality though. Sure we don't "need" smart phones, but you can't deny how they've changed the world. I'm posting this now from a smart phone. I do all my banking from a smart phone. I require the use of one for my work, in handling emergency situations.

You're reading this on a display likely manufactured in China or Korea. The reality is that the world we live in, relies on goods manufactured cheaply in china. It isn't just a matter of population (overpopulation is a myth that's been floating around since before we had a 10th the population we do now and is still just as wrong). It's a matter of the economics of the world we live in. Also in the population argument, per capita, it's easy to see on that chart how much lower their emissions are than the US.

And no, cutting out china isn't going to reduce the world's emissions by half. Even if the entire country were to suddenly vanish, then other nations would start producing more CO2 to make up for the loss of China.

But yeah, china is aware of their air quality problems, and are taking steps to reduce this. Why don't Canada and US do the same? An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

Interesting priorities. We get to keep using all the stuff we've come to rely on, as long as we support CO2 policy that means people in Canada struggle to afford heat, which in turn shows our support for an international ideology that helps prevent those burning dung and kerosene in their homes from accessing reasonably affordable coal-fired generation.

Are you asking why doesn't Canada, or the US, do anything about pollution, or only about the portion of our pollution which is CO2?

[Omnitheo]

I'm saying everyone has to do their part. Not just blame the rest. We recently signed an agreement alongside China and the US. We need to do our part every bit as much as we can. Lead by example, show that we can make it work.

Simply stating "others are worse so we shouldn't need to bother ourselves" sets no examples and does nothing to inspire anyone to do their part either.

[rustled]

I'm saying everyone has to do their part. Not just blame the rest. We recently signed an agreement alongside China and the US. We need to do our part every bit as much as we can. Lead by example, show that we can make it work.

Simply stating "others are worse so we shouldn't need to bother ourselves" sets no examples and does nothing to inspire anyone to do their part either.

Well, it seems to me Canada (and the US) are definitely doing our part about ensuring clean air and clean water. We have been, for a long time. There's certainly room for improvement, but that's been put on the back burner by this focus on CO2.

It seems to me no one who feels we should show more leadership and be more inspirational regarding CO2 emissions can explain why they find it so easy to ignore the hardship the CO2 policies are causing the poor here, and the poorest in Third World countries.

Our inspiring leadership is coming at an extremely high price to real people, right now. (To me, there are ugly parallels here with the Catholic church lecturing people on the morality of their choices while amassing great wealth for themselves, and all the while still insisting on tithing their poorest people. Religious right, environmental activist left, conservative, liberal: Who cares? It's wrong.)

I can't get my head around any of this inhumane indifference. When we know we are causing genuine hardship to the poor, "leadership and inspiration" are, IMO, absolutely no excuse.

[Sparki55]

Your opinion doesn't reflect the reality though. Sure we don't "need" smart phones, but you can't deny how they've changed the world. I'm posting this now from a smart phone. I do all my banking from a smart phone. I require the use of one for my work, in handling emergency situations.

Yes, smartphones have changed many things that created the lives we live today. You would still be able to purchase one. Maybe you wouldn't also own a computer, a laptop, a tablet, a brand new car; we don't need it all.

You're reading this on a display likely manufactured in China or Korea. The reality is that the world we live in, relies on goods manufactured cheaply in china. It isn't just a matter of population (overpopulation is a myth that's been floating around since before we had a 10th the population we do now and is still just as wrong). It's a matter of the economics of the world we live in. Also in the population argument, per capita, it's easy to see on that chart how much lower their emissions are than the US.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-03-09/here-s-what-china-s-middle-class-really-earn-and-spend

Sure, us western cultures rely on Chinese made goods. Those cheap goods here are very expensive in their own country. They make less than $30 a day in American money, which gives them no buying power to go on vacation, purchase the goods they make in the same quantity we do. If you ask me, we are exploiting them just as much as their government exploits them for profit.

Anyway this thread is on carbon emissions, sorry for taking it so far off topic. No country is carbon neutral, and never will be free of emissions. In my opinion if we purchased more local goods, were less materialistic and enjoyed activities that are free or didn't require much material stuff, the world worry less about climate change. A big start would be to stop mass importing goods that have to travel across a huge ocean from China; nevermind all the raw materials we ship them first from Canada to build these items.