Syrian refugee charged with six counts of sexual assault

Re: Syrian refugee charged with six counts of sexual assault

Postby annexi » Mar 4th, 2017, 11:31 pm

rustled wrote:The first sentence is true.

The second sentence is a construct of those who are too firmly focused on the third. Look at the problem with the taxi companies in Halifax. As surely as prejudice can lead people to paint everyone with the same brush (which is clearly wrong), prejudice can also blind people to root causes that should be addressed (which is also wrong).

GB keeps mentioning Rotheram. If we refuse to even acknowledge the factors that allowed this to happen in the UK, what's to stop it from happening elsewhere?

I'm not a fan of organized religion. It seems, to me, to discourage people from thinking for themselves, from doing what is right because it is right. So yes, I have a bias. Still, when I think about a religion that segregates men from women and further segregates women who are menstruating, it's difficult for me to blindly accept that there is where the segregation ends.

I do not feel it's helpful to demonize a religion, or a people, or a culture as some persist in doing. However, I also do not feel it is helpful to turn a blind eye to the implications inherent in their teachings. This goes for any religion.

dirtrider: you have provided examples of Muslim leaders speaking out against the violence. What they are not speaking out about, to my mind, is the inherent underlying sexism that seems readily apparent in their religious practices. Are you able to show examples of their religious leadership insisting, men and women be treated as equals in their mosques and in their homes, unsegregated for prayer, and being broadly accepted and supporting for taking this stance?

We do know there are countries where women are not allowed to drive or go places unaccompanied by men, and we do know young women are too often denied even an education.

Some people emigrate from these countries to provide opportunities for their daughters and sisters and mothers. But are refugees, fleeing war and famine, approaching Canada (or any other country of refuge) as a place where women and men can live a Western lifestyle? I think it's naive to believe that's the case.

rustled, if I get you right it seems you're making a case that something about Islam makes Muslim men more inclined to commit sexual assault. I'm not sure I agree when I see how many Canadian women/children are sexually assaulted/molested by men in Canada. 1/4 roughly? It's not a problem specific to Islam.
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Re: Syrian refugee charged with six counts of sexual assault

Postby annexi » Mar 4th, 2017, 11:38 pm

rustled wrote:
GB keeps mentioning Rotheram. If we refuse to even acknowledge the factors that allowed this to happen in the UK, what's to stop it from happening elsewhere?
.


Look at what's happening in the sex trade in places like Thailand, Cambodia, India. white men from Canada, us, Australia, japan, Russia etc. doing really bad things on a large scale. It's bad news. To pin Muslims as the greatest sex offenders I'm not sure is factual.
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Re: Syrian refugee charged with six counts of sexual assault

Postby Queen K » Mar 4th, 2017, 11:41 pm

The Green Barbarian wrote:
Queen K wrote:
Why are they coming here, taking a look around at what Western culture built and not leaving? In droves?

I ask myself this every day.


Why would they leave?


That's just it. If our culture is so repugnant, why not seek out a more like minded one.
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Re: Syrian refugee charged with six counts of sexual assault

Postby annexi » Mar 4th, 2017, 11:43 pm

Lady tehMa wrote:
annexi wrote:The fact he is Syrian is irrelevant. He's not a molester because he's Syrian. He's a molester because he's a molester. Plenty of white Canadian molesters. Not defending him, guy has a problem obviously. But really, it's not because he's Syrian. I bet Syrians have no more child molesters than Canada per capita. Quit painting these people with the racist brush.


No, it isn't irrelevant.

He is not a Canadian citizen ergo he should be deported, stat.

Molesters should not be tolerated because they are immigrants. For that matter, I would be perfectly happy with revoking Canadian citizenship for ANY molester of any race or creed.

I agree molesting behaviour should not be tolerated. What I meant was that the etymology of his impulses don't derive from Islam but a deeper wound held equally through humanity.
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Re: Syrian refugee charged with six counts of sexual assault

Postby rustled » Mar 5th, 2017, 1:38 am

annexi wrote:
rustled wrote:The first sentence is true.

The second sentence is a construct of those who are too firmly focused on the third. Look at the problem with the taxi companies in Halifax. As surely as prejudice can lead people to paint everyone with the same brush (which is clearly wrong), prejudice can also blind people to root causes that should be addressed (which is also wrong).

GB keeps mentioning Rotheram. If we refuse to even acknowledge the factors that allowed this to happen in the UK, what's to stop it from happening elsewhere?

I'm not a fan of organized religion. It seems, to me, to discourage people from thinking for themselves, from doing what is right because it is right. So yes, I have a bias. Still, when I think about a religion that segregates men from women and further segregates women who are menstruating, it's difficult for me to blindly accept that there is where the segregation ends.

I do not feel it's helpful to demonize a religion, or a people, or a culture as some persist in doing. However, I also do not feel it is helpful to turn a blind eye to the implications inherent in their teachings. This goes for any religion.

dirtrider: you have provided examples of Muslim leaders speaking out against the violence. What they are not speaking out about, to my mind, is the inherent underlying sexism that seems readily apparent in their religious practices. Are you able to show examples of their religious leadership insisting, men and women be treated as equals in their mosques and in their homes, unsegregated for prayer, and being broadly accepted and supporting for taking this stance?

We do know there are countries where women are not allowed to drive or go places unaccompanied by men, and we do know young women are too often denied even an education.

Some people emigrate from these countries to provide opportunities for their daughters and sisters and mothers. But are refugees, fleeing war and famine, approaching Canada (or any other country of refuge) as a place where women and men can live a Western lifestyle? I think it's naive to believe that's the case.

rustled, if I get you right it seems you're making a case that something about Islam makes Muslim men more inclined to commit sexual assault. I'm not sure I agree when I see how many Canadian women/children are sexually assaulted/molested by men in Canada. 1/4 roughly? It's not a problem specific to Islam.

Bear in mind what constitutes sexual assault in Canada: "A term used to refer to all incidents of unwanted sexual activity, including sexual attacks and sexual touching." By this definition, I've experienced several sexual assaults myself. The first two times, there was no man involved. I think we need to be careful about our biases and preconceptions here, as always.

While sexual assault is certainly not a problem specific to Islam, there is a component of that religion that puts me in mind of attitudes which were far more prevalent in Western culture a couple of generations back than they are today, before we said "that's enough of that". Not because we believed if those attitudes went unchecked, every man would figure if it's ok to treat women and children however they liked. No, we blew the whistle on that kind of attitude because we recognized the negative implications of that kind of sexist cultural conditioning for all of us: men, women and children.

When I think about the young men arriving here as refugees, I think in terms of where they're coming from, the culture in which they've been raised. In terms of Islam, I don't see any evidence of their religious and community leaders taking a serious stance against culturally conditioned sexism here in Canada. It's difficult for me to believe that although their place of worship requires women be separated from men, their religion somehow still supports, promotes, encourages (or even, come to think of it, allows) equality.

It's difficult for me to believe their leaders are taking a serious stand against the attitudes that are associated with seeing women as less than equal, when those attitudes are apparent in their places of worship. I'm open to the possibility a call for equality, their appeals and directives against sexism, are being drowned out, as dirtrider said. Yet while he/she was able to provide plenty of examples of what I had been aware of (their leaders speaking up about terrorism and extremism), he/she did not provide examples of these same leaders expecting their flock to put sexism behind them and embrace genuine equality of the sexes. I'd like to be proven wrong.

Still, my concern about refugees isn't specific to Islam or Muslims.

When you think about men arriving here as refugees from countries where women are not allowed to be seen in public without a male chaperone (or without "proper" attire), where women are not allowed to drive a car, where girls are not allowed to get an education, where women are not seen as autonomous equals: how do you think the culture they've been raised in contributes to their attitudes toward women and children once they're here?

How do you think that kind of cultural conditioning contributes to the attitudes of the women themselves, toward their daughters and each other, toward their sons and their husbands?

How do we expect this to play out? Should we believe cultural conditioning had absolutely no bearing on what happened to the children in Rotheram? That it had absolutely no bearing on what happened to the intoxicated woman in a taxi in Halifax? That it had absolutely no bearing on what happened on public streets in Europe where people gathered to celebrate New Year's Eve?

What should we learn when the leader of a Western government responds to the gang-style sexual assaults at public celebrations on New Years' Eve with "women need to be more careful"?

What should we learn from what happened in Rotheram? Are we to believe it would have gone that far if the UK hadn't created its own brave new culture, one of putting political correctness before common decency and common law?

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Re: Syrian refugee charged with six counts of sexual assault

Postby the truth » Mar 5th, 2017, 10:17 am

Exactly :up:
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Re: Syrian refugee charged with six counts of sexual assault

Postby bold » Mar 5th, 2017, 10:58 am

[/quote]if these two videos does not say it all nothing does , wake up people[/quote]

Yes, people really do need to WAKE UP. Including on so many other events other than this.



I am from the UK, Canada seems to lag 5-10 years behind with trends and movements similar to Europe. Canada is lucky in a way, Canada can look into it's own future by observing what's happening in Europe. I wish people would put ignorance aside, remove the horse blinders and question all facts media/gov rams down their throats.

Mainstream media/Gov have had large Horse blinders on populations for ever, for their narrative (Look up Horse blinders if you do not know) You are not receiving the full picture from the sideline or behind, you just see what's ahead, TOLD were your going and so they believe.

This is nothing to do with the color of a someone's skin, it's to do with their compatibility within their host society's in any country.

If people call me a tin foil hat kind of guy then So be it. That's just your opinion of me, expressing your right to freedom of speech on ANYTHING in a respectful manner is a good thing.

Media/gov shuts down anything going against the set agenda, lots of topics are forbidden to be fairly debated openly on air to public with out a strict script to abide by containing cherry picked data/guests. If there is no data to be cherry picked to suit it gets creatively modified and twisted to meet the narrative. When people move off script journalist in live interviews are paid, trained and brain washed well to discredit suppressing the truth by pulling many cards like the Racist card, tin-foil-hat, fascist, bigot to shut down truthful information reaching the public. People under the media spell are very controllable.

We get told what to do and feel by fake Hollywood hero's whom have no bearing on realty. Just look at Leonardo Dicaprio, he is telling the world we are bad humans that need to change our 'carbon foot print' to suit the planet, yet he flies an Eye Brow 'Specialist' 7500 miles from Australia to the US to do his eye brows for the Oscars! Do as I say not as I do.

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Re: Syrian refugee charged with six counts of sexual assault

Postby dirtrider » Mar 5th, 2017, 11:58 am

rustled wrote:
Still, my concern about refugees isn't specific to Islam or Muslims.


Yeah I'm afraid that's the issue here, with all due respect of course. You can't seem to get pass the "Islam" word...the same theme is prevalent in all of your posts concerning Islam. I've answered some of your questions from why are the Muslims sexually assaulting our women to why aren't their leaders speaking out against all the crimes and terrorism....and now It's evolved into:

"....t's difficult for me to believe their leaders are taking a serious stand against the attitudes that are associated with seeing women as less than equal, when those attitudes are apparent in their places of worship. I'm open to the possibility a call for equality, their appeals and directives against sexism, are being drowned out, as dirtrider said. Yet while he/she was able to provide plenty of examples of what I had been aware of (their leaders speaking up about terrorism and extremism), he/she did not provide examples of these same leaders expecting their flock to put sexism behind them and embrace genuine equality of the sexes. I'd like to be proven wrong.


It's clear, imo, you've already have pre-conceived notions concerning the Muslim issues from your various post on this subject as I have mine. I've already gave you my opinion about trying to impose our attitudes and ideas on some other culture and religious beliefs. I don't know the word for that but instinctively, I know that's wrong. If you looked through the links I posted about the moderate Muslim leaders condemnation of the terror and sex acts, you should get a feel that that's not what their religion stands for either. In fact, you commit those types of crimes in their respective countries, it's more often death as punishment than not. That is how their religion got it's start, in a harsh, arid, extremely hot and brutal environment. Their religion is a reflection of that harshness and environment. I also want to add that Christianity and Judaism also originated in the same region. That's why all 3 religions at times have had some harsh history......brutal in fact against each other and others.

In addressing the sexism attitude you seem to see in the Muslim culture......I just want to point out that Canada started out in 1867 and USA in 1776, it wasn't until 1940 (Quebec) and 1920 respectively that women were finally recognized as "equals". It took the mostly the "Christian" white population of their respective country 73 and 144 years to get there. I'm sure the battle for equality is still going on today as I still hear complaints from athletes and businesswomen, say we are not treated equal.
We've already discussed the 'rape and the sexual" numbers as having no bearing or relationship to the "Muslim" issue. In all European countries, Canada and the US, the sex attacks are committed by the native 'white" males against women of their respective countries.....it's not an Muslim issue!!!....although you and others on these like threads seem to gloss over this FACT. I digress, getting back on track, So it took the mostly white Christians 73 years and 144 years to officially recognize "equality" in our respective countries, yet you expect the Muslims to do it 5 years :200: ....I'm sure they will evolve in time in their own time....just like the white Christians and the Jewish peoples have tried to evolve (I'm pretty sure we haven't got there yet) But for myself, reading about their religion, working and talking with Muslims daily, I don't see the problem you are describing. I see young angry Muslim men, just like I witnessed with the blacks in USA and the white angry young men in UK, acting out in frustration about their social-economic situation. Their actions,imo, are a direct manifestation of a deeper problem, that of economics and integration. If you have this type of scenario anywhere in the world, I'm pretty certain the resultant actions would be the same as what's happening in Europe.

....edit to add: I had meant to address the atrocious Rotheram as well....It's brutal what these criminal did and should be punished accordingly, first jailed and kick them out. There should be no tolerance for refugees that commit these crimes and essentially spitting on the generousity of their host nation.....but I have to comment, and in no way condoning what happened in Rotheram, we have had similar type of atrocities with the Roman Catholic Priests against Native children in Canada that was allowed to happen for decades :200: . So I guess my point is that examples of singular isolated instances like Rotheram does nothing to clarify the real problem and instead only fuels the Islamophobia. Isn't this a human nature problem and not necessarily a religious one?
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Re: Syrian refugee charged with six counts of sexual assault

Postby rustled » Mar 5th, 2017, 12:16 pm

dirtrider wrote:
rustled wrote:
Still, my concern about refugees isn't specific to Islam or Muslims.


Yeah I'm afraid that's the issue here, with all due respect of course. You can't seem to get pass the "Islam" word...the same theme is prevalent in all of your posts concerning Islam. I've answered some of your questions from why are the Muslims sexually assaulting our women to why aren't their leaders speaking out against all the crimes and terrorism....and now It's evolved into:

"....t's difficult for me to believe their leaders are taking a serious stand against the attitudes that are associated with seeing women as less than equal, when those attitudes are apparent in their places of worship. I'm open to the possibility a call for equality, their appeals and directives against sexism, are being drowned out, as dirtrider said. Yet while he/she was able to provide plenty of examples of what I had been aware of (their leaders speaking up about terrorism and extremism), he/she did not provide examples of these same leaders expecting their flock to put sexism behind them and embrace genuine equality of the sexes. I'd like to be proven wrong.


It's clear, imo, you've already have pre-conceived notions concerning the Muslim issues from your various post on this subject as I have mine. I've already gave you my opinion about trying to impose our attitudes and ideas on some other culture and religious beliefs. I don't know the word for that but instinctively, I know that's wrong. If you looked through the links I posted about the moderate Muslim leaders condemnation of the terror and sex acts, you should get a feel that that's not what their religion stands for either. In fact, you commit those types of crimes in their respective countries, it's more often death as punishment than not. That is how their religion got it's start, in a harsh, arid, extremely hot and brutal environment. Their religion is a reflection of that harshness and environment. I also want to add that Christianity and Judaism also originated in the same region. That's why all 3 religions at times have had some harsh history......brutal in fact against each other and others.

In addressing the sexism attitude you seem to see in the Muslim culture......I just want to point out that Canada started out in 1867 and USA in 1776, it wasn't until 1940 (Quebec) and 1920 respectively that women were finally recognized as "equals". It took the mostly the "Christian" white population of their respective country 73 and 144 years to get there. I'm sure the battle for equality is still going on today as I still hear complaints from athletes and businesswomen, say we are not treated equal.
We've already discussed the 'rape and the sexual" numbers as having no bearing or relationship to the "Muslim" issue. In all European countries, Canada and the US, the sex attacks are committed by the native 'white" males against women of their respective countries.....it's not an Muslim issue!!!....although you and others on these like threads seem to gloss over this FACT. I digress, getting back on track, So it took the mostly white Christians 73 years and 144 years to officially recognize "equality" in our respective countries, yet you expect the Muslims to do it 5 years :200: ....I'm sure they will evolve in time in their own time....just like the white Christians and the Jewish peoples have tried to evolve (I'm pretty sure we haven't got there yet) But for myself, reading about their religion, working and talking with Muslims daily, I don't see the problem you are describing. I see young angry Muslim men, just like I witnessed with the blacks in USA and the white angry young men in UK, acting out in frustration about their social-economic situation. Their actions,imo, are a direct manifestation of a deeper problem, that of economics and integration. If you have this type of scenario anywhere in the world, I'm pretty certain the resultant actions would be the same as what's happening in Europe.

A couple of things:

1. I do not know the religions of the people who are arriving as refugees from countries where culturally, women are treated as inferior. I certainly don't presume they're all practicing Muslims. We've had similar problems with immigrants from other cultures, some of whom obviously follow religions other than Islam. Twenty years ago, we were concerned with other religions not adapting to Western culture. A few generations back, the leaders of Christianity had to step up to the plate and promote equality. This isn't new. Were there references to sexism in the links you provided, and I missed them? Scanning through them, I saw explicit condemnation of terrorism, but not of sexism.

2. You just presented exactly the same problem I described, exactly the same problem people are concerned about. I've bolded it for you. It's interesting to me that you cannot see this for what it is.
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Re: Syrian refugee charged with six counts of sexual assault

Postby dirtrider » Mar 5th, 2017, 12:24 pm

Well then it's not a Muslim problem then? is that what you're saying? Because I thought in this thread and other threads that 's who we were referencing. Now we are writing about immigrants in general. Weren't you writing about where the Muslim leaders were when all the atrocities were occurring? So are we going to disscuss anti feminists sentiments inherent in all refugees now?

I'm confused rustled....because where i'm reading your posts, it's clearly a Muslim problem for you. I havenT read too many comments about other refugees and problems in their integration from you matter fact it was me pointing these things out to you.
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Re: Syrian refugee charged with six counts of sexual assault

Postby rustled » Mar 5th, 2017, 12:24 pm

dirtrider wrote:....edit to add: I had meant to address the atrocious Rotheram as well....It's brutal what these criminal did and should be punished accordingly, first jailed and kick them out. There should be no tolerance for refugees that commit these crimes and essentially spitting on the generousity of their host nation.....but I have to comment, and in no way condoning what happened in Rotheram, we have had the similar type of atrocities with the Roman Catholic Priests against Native children that ran decades :200: . So I guess my point is that examples of singular isolated instances like Rotheram does nothing to clarify the real problem and instead only fuels the Islamophobia.

You've connected the dots here. You're able to see how the RCC, a powerful force in peoples' lives played a role.

When people were trying to deal with this terrible problem, would it have helped to dismiss those saying "there's a problem with the RCC" with "you're prejudiced"?

Would you accuse those who spoke up of "stirring up hatred against the church"?

Would calling them "Catholicismophobics" have helped end those atrocities?

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Re: Syrian refugee charged with six counts of sexual assault

Postby dirtrider » Mar 5th, 2017, 12:32 pm

What are you trying to say then rustled? .....can you be a little more clear what are you against? Muslims, sex attacks, religion, entitlement attitude, lack of involvement from the Muslim leaders, Rotheram, Catholics. The deflection seems endless.
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Re: Syrian refugee charged with six counts of sexual assault

Postby rustled » Mar 5th, 2017, 12:32 pm

dirtrider wrote:Well then it's not a Muslim problem then? is that what you're saying? Because I thought in this thread and other threads that 's who we were referencing. Now we are writing about immigrants in general. Weren't you writing about where the Muslim leaders were when all the atrocities were occurring? So are we going to disscuss anti feminists sentiments inherent in all refugees now?

This is misidentifying the problem, which does nothing to address it.

When refugees and immigrants are not arriving here with the same cultural expectations we've come to value, we must address this problem.

If Islam does not require sexism from the faithful, the leadership must say so.

If Islam does require sexism, the leadership must deal very clearly with the implications of these attitudes. Same goes for any religion, for any cultural authority.

Frankly, if you can see why the RCC had to accept some responsibility for what happened in our recent past, surely you must be able to see why other religions must take responsibility for what happens, too.

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Re: Syrian refugee charged with six counts of sexual assault

Postby dirtrider » Mar 5th, 2017, 12:45 pm

rustled wrote:
dirtrider wrote:....edit to add: I had meant to address the atrocious Rotheram as well....It's brutal what these criminal did and should be punished accordingly, first jailed and kick them out. There should be no tolerance for refugees that commit these crimes and essentially spitting on the generousity of their host nation.....but I have to comment, and in no way condoning what happened in Rotheram, we have had the similar type of atrocities with the Roman Catholic Priests against Native children that ran decades :200: . So I guess my point is that examples of singular isolated instances like Rotheram does nothing to clarify the real problem and instead only fuels the Islamophobia.

You've connected the dots here. You're able to see how the RCC, a powerful force in peoples' lives played a role.

When people were trying to deal with this terrible problem, would it have helped to dismiss those saying "there's a problem with the RCC" with "you're prejudiced"?

Would you accuse those who spoke up of "stirring up hatred against the church"?

Would calling them "Catholicismophobics" have helped end those atrocities?


...and yeah mostly it's positive experience. But in any religion or culture, there is bound to be people that uses this "cover" to commit these crimes. What it boils down to is not about religion or even culture. It's about a "bad" seed.....and that happens in any religion or culture. What I'm saying is this is what is happening in Europe, it's a social economic problem that is the root cause of the "other " problems you are seeing, a manifestation of the core problem. I'm not sure why you can't connect these dots?
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Re: Syrian refugee charged with six counts of sexual assault

Postby rustled » Mar 5th, 2017, 12:57 pm

rustled wrote:
dirtrider wrote:You've connected the dots here. You're able to see how the RCC, a powerful force in peoples' lives played a role.

When people were trying to deal with this terrible problem, would it have helped to dismiss those saying "there's a problem with the RCC" with "you're prejudiced"?

Would you accuse those who spoke up of "stirring up hatred against the church"?

Would calling them "Catholicismophobics" have helped end those atrocities?


...and yeah mostly it's positive experience. But in any religion or culture, there is bound to be people that uses this "cover" to commit these crimes. What it boils down to is not about religion or even culture. It's about a "bad" seed.....and that happens in any religion or culture. What I'm saying is this is what is happening in Europe, it's a social economic problem that is the root cause of the "other " problems you are seeing, a manifestation of the core problem. I'm not sure why you can't connect these dots?

I can assure you, I have connected those dots, too. This problem isn't an "either or", and there's no reason to ignore or minimize any of the contributing factors.

If our goal is to effectively help people adapt successfully, all of these factors must be addressed.

Respectfully, dirtrider, it seems to me you're going to great lengths to avoid holding Islam to the same level of accountability you would expect of the RCC. I expect the same level of accountability from all religions and all cultural leaders.
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