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Trudeau proposes increasing income tax rate to 93%

Re: Trudeau proposes increasing income tax rate to 93%

Postby maryjane48 » Sep 3rd, 2017, 10:50 pm

the thing is trickle down only works for the rich . and with the americans about to collapse under record debt things will pay off in the end. what is really needed is a world wide minimum wage set bumy the un . other wise the explotation in third worlds will continue . theres a 4eason why the trumps of the world talk about bringing jobs back yet themselves using places like china and india for slave labour. thsts the real problem

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Re: Trudeau proposes increasing income tax rate to 93%

Postby Rwede » Sep 5th, 2017, 11:27 am

For Trudeau, it’s all about helping his friends

September 5, 2017


It’s amazing the difference in how Justin Trudeau and his Liberals treat different groups depending on how they see you. Are you a friend or an easy target?

If you are a friend of the Trudeau Liberals, the world is your oyster and the public purse is yours for the looting. If you are perceived as an easy target, look out.

Right now the perceived easy target is Canada’s small business community.

Sold as targeting rich doctors and lawyers, Trudeau’s finance minister Bill Morneau dropped the most significant changes to Canada’s small business tax policy in 50 years in the middle of summer and announced there would be 75 days of online consultation before implementation starting in October.

The Liberals and the federal public service have literally been on a public relations campaign, with heavy use of social media to claim this is about fairness, about making the wealthy pay their fair share and about stopping tax cheats.

But this isn’t about going after rich doctors who pay their spouse or kids to do nothing all in an attempt to lower their income tax.

Simply put these changes will impact every small business from coast to coast. The dry cleaner down the street. A target. The local barber shop. A target. The neighbourhood mechanic. A target.

It looked last week that the Liberals might be getting ready to back down as Liberal MPs reported back to their party bosses about the angry phone calls and emails, but then on Friday, Trudeau doubled down saying again this was about fairness and making the rich pay more.

Trudeau said he would “make no apologies” for his policy.

“We’re doing more for the people who need it and doing less for the people who don’t,” Trudeau said.
He also said the he wants to make the wealthy pay “a little bit more.”

Here’s the reality, as told to me by Perrin Beatty, President and CEO of the Canadian Chamber of Commerce, two-thirds of Canadian small business owners make less than $73,000 a year. The Canadian Federation of Independent Business says the average annual earnings for a small business owner runs at about $60,000.

That’s not near the one percent.

If Justin Trudeau and his office want to look at getting at the wealthy, they should look at their friends, the ones they reward handsomely.


It was just two weeks ago that we found out that Rana Sarkar, a twice failed Liberal candidate and personal friend of Justin Trudeau and the PM’s right hand man Gerald Butts was being paid nearly double the posted salary for taking the job of Consul General in San Francisco.

Butts defended the move to pay his buddy somewhere between $221,300 and $260,300 for a job that was posted as paying between $119,600 and $140,700. (The feds only release salary information in bands, not specific numbers.)

Sarkar is a friend and left a Bay Street job to work in the federal civil service was the response from Butts.

Never mind that Sarkar has twice tried to be elected as a Liberal MP, which would have seen his salary be a paltry $172,000, Sarkar is a friend and therefore deserves special treatment. And a salary that sits at least 4.5 times what the average Canadian working full time earns.


SNIPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP


It is truly bizarre that Justin Trudeau, born into a family that hasn’t had to work since his grandfather Charles-Emile struck it rich with oil and other business ventures in the 1930, is teaming up with Bill Morneau, a man who had his company handed to him by his father to tell small business owners about fairness and how they should run their affairs.

Small business owners are the middle class that Trudeau says he is trying to help, he and his friends are the one percent he likes to rail against.

http://brianlilley.com/for-trudeau-its- ... s-friends/
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Re: Trudeau proposes increasing income tax rate to 93%

Postby Veovis » Sep 5th, 2017, 4:23 pm

Basically the new plan is not to really prevent the rich from getting richer, they still will, but they sure need to block the riff raff from potentially joining them.

The silver spoon PM is clearly making sure he and his stay there while the rest have a steeper hill than ever to try to gain wealth. Why else would you create a policy that is in effect the equivalent of killing every cat in Canada because you wanted to kill a couple fleas.

A foolhardy plan, except that it will do what it was meant to do, and that isn't "punish the rich"
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Re: Trudeau proposes increasing income tax rate to 93%

Postby hobbyguy » Sep 5th, 2017, 5:28 pm

Actually, what I read of the proposed changes, one makes pretty decent sense, and one makes some sense and shouldn't be that big a deal.

Stopping the tax strategy of converting income into capital gains is the one that makes the most sense. That really isn't going to affect "mom and pop" family business, I suspect only the top end who have enough income to make the costs of the tactics pay off.

Stopping income sprinkling to minor children makes some sense. Minor children are unlikely to contribute a whole heck of a lot to family business unless they actually put in the hours and contribute - if they do, easy enough to show that they did, and earned only comparable salaries to regular trainee employees.

The passive income one is tricky. Reasonably, a business owner has two methods to extract income from a company. Salary and dividends. If the business owner takes the income as salary, then the business owner has the same tax shelter portfolio options as everyone else - RRSP, TFSA etc. Setting up a passive income portfolio with a corporation is a strategy that goes beyond the intent of the government in encouraging retirement savings.

None of that is "in my wheelhouse", but I really don't see how it affects what I perceive as a small business. Are my perceptions incorrect?
We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both. - Louis D. Brandeis

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Re: Trudeau proposes increasing income tax rate to 93%

Postby RustyCrayon » Sep 5th, 2017, 5:35 pm

Just heard on CBC radio that there will be some protests about the proposed tax increases while Trudeau is in town.
Anyone have any details on when and where?
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Re: Trudeau proposes increasing income tax rate to 93%

Postby Veovis » Sep 5th, 2017, 7:02 pm

Why doesn't the PM (although I already know) do something smart like tax 3rd generational trusts and higher at 80%?

This way trust fund babies wouldn't just have an endless free ride like our beloved PM who wishes to even the playing field.

A first and second generation I can see as parents and grandparents helping kids is a positive thing to encourage, but super million that get left to some people much like the "I care about regular people" PM perhaps needs not be left in the hands of those that never earned it, after all, should he "pay his pair share" it's not even his money.

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Re: Trudeau proposes increasing income tax rate to 93%

Postby Rwede » Sep 6th, 2017, 1:59 pm

So much for listening to the feedback from MPs.

This is an affront to democracy, and nothing short of dictatorial.

Starting off by putting MPs back in their seats and telling them to shut up on this certainly isn't a sunny way.


Won't back down on tax


The Canadian Press - Sep 6, 2017 / 12:52 pm | Story: 205928

Justin Trudeau kicked off a Liberal caucus retreat Wednesday insisting his government won't back down on a plan to end tax provisions that it maintains give some wealthy small business owners an unfair advantage.

The prime minister's opening message to caucus pre-empted Liberal backbenchers who've come to the retreat poised to press for changes to the tax plan after being inundated with complaints over the summer.

https://www.castanet.net/news/Kelowna/2 ... own-on-tax
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Re: Trudeau proposes increasing income tax rate to 93%

Postby Rwede » Sep 8th, 2017, 9:48 am

Veovis wrote:Why doesn't the PM (although I already know) do something smart like tax 3rd generational trusts and higher at 80%?

This way trust fund babies wouldn't just have an endless free ride like our beloved PM who wishes to even the playing field.

A first and second generation I can see as parents and grandparents helping kids is a positive thing to encourage, but super million that get left to some people much like the "I care about regular people" PM perhaps needs not be left in the hands of those that never earned it, after all, should he "pay his pair share" it's not even his money.



Trudeau won't be taxing the very trusts that he himself lives off.

What many people don't know is that Trudeau's trust fund actually was built with money bilked from Canadian taxpayers.

Trudeau's grandparents owned Petrofina, a string of gas stations in Eastern Canada. Trudeau's dad PET brokered a deal to have Petro Canada, which was at the time government-owned, buy out Petrofina for 5 times the market value of Petrofina. That money went into Justin Trudeau's trust fund.

Stolen money from taxpayers isn't a new concept for Trudeau. Now he wants to steal more from small businesses and raise taxes on employees to fund his gifts to the Clintons, Gerald Butts, Rana Sarkar, etc.
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Re: Trudeau proposes increasing income tax rate to 93%

Postby Dawggss » Sep 9th, 2017, 10:55 pm

Rwede wrote:
Veovis wrote:Why doesn't the PM (although I already know) do something smart like tax 3rd generational trusts and higher at 80%?

This way trust fund babies wouldn't just have an endless free ride like our beloved PM who wishes to even the playing field.

A first and second generation I can see as parents and grandparents helping kids is a positive thing to encourage, but super million that get left to some people much like the "I care about regular people" PM perhaps needs not be left in the hands of those that never earned it, after all, should he "pay his pair share" it's not even his money.



Trudeau won't be taxing the very trusts that he himself lives off.

What many people don't know is that Trudeau's trust fund actually was built with money bilked from Canadian taxpayers.

Trudeau's grandparents owned Petrofina, a string of gas stations in Eastern Canada. Trudeau's dad PET brokered a deal to have Petro Canada, which was at the time government-owned, buy out Petrofina for 5 times the market value of Petrofina. That money went into Justin Trudeau's trust fund.

Stolen money from taxpayers isn't a new concept for Trudeau. Now he wants to steal more from small businesses and raise taxes on employees to fund his gifts to the Clintons, Gerald Butts, Rana Sarkar, etc.


Wasn't Petrofina a Belgian company? Wasn't it also one of the smaller, if not smallest, foreign owned oil firms in Canada during the 1970s/80s?
Didn't foreign ownership in total control close to 80% of Canadian oil and gas at the time?
Wasn't the goal by PET and Lalonde to reduce this to 50% through acquisitions?
Was this 'secret financial dealings'? Why do you suggest "bilked from Canadian taxpayers"?

Couldn't you be also correct to suggest a corporate sale of assets is a 'good business deal' for the seller? And in this case, a potentially positive move for Canadian control of resources?
If this sale was by anyone other than people you dislike so intensely would you have a problem?
- The accusation of 'stolen money' is rather interesting - if not dishonest at best.
Evidence?
Charges filed against the thieves?

Sorry - this is merely a disingenuous stream of contempt for a person you dislike. If you disagree with the NEP, which Trudeau proposed - fine. But please . . . What's the point of the accusations?

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Re: Trudeau proposes increasing income tax rate to 93%

Postby Rwede » Sep 11th, 2017, 1:22 pm

Response to Justin Trudeau comments “I want to be clear: people who make $50,000 a yr should not pay higher taxes than people who make $250,000 a yr"

Published on September 8, 2017

Peter MacIntosh
Partner at White Kennedy LLP | http://www.whitekennedy.com


To the Liberal Members of Parliament,

I recently read a Globe and Mail article reporting on the Liberal caucus meetings held in Kelowna. In the article the Prime Minister of Canada, and the leader of your party, was quoted as follows; “I want to be clear: people who make $50,000 a year should not pay higher taxes than people who make $250,000 a year Mr. Trudeau told his MP’s”. I have never been a politically active person but feel compelled to respond to this comment.

First of all, I am a tax partner at the largest independent accounting firm in the southern interior of British Columbia. For the last 25 years we have assisted small business owners and primarily owners of private corporations. As a result, I can speak from first hand knowledge and experience. We have thousands of clients and I can state that the situation the Prime Minister has described does not exist. It does not exist because under no scenario is this possible. If your leader is describing the proposed tax changes to you in this way then I strongly suggest your are being misled and lied to.

Let me make this as simple as possible. If a corporation has earned $250,000 then it will pay corporate tax in the amount of $37,500 at the low rate and as much as $67,500 at the high rate. Dividends are then distributed to shareholders whereby they pay tax again at the applicable marginal tax rate. An employee who earns $50,000 would pay approx. $8,000 in tax. Clearly, the situation as described by Justin Trudeau is false. There may be ways to mitigate the personal tax element but you can’t avoid the significant corporate tax bill. Once again, I emphasize that you are being misled by the Prime Minister of Canada.

Your government’s tax proposals are supposedly focused on your party’s promise to the middle class that “there is a belief that every Canadian should feel confident that they have the same opportunity to succeed”. I can confidently say that your party’s tax proposals will negatively impact all of my clients who are owners of private corporations, large, medium and small. Business owners have made life decisions based on long standing tax principles and that impact how they can manage their cashflow. Tax principles that, might I add, are not “loopholes” but are enacted tax law and supported by decisions of the Tax Courts and the Supreme Court of Canada. Business owners have made decisions to take on business debt or personal debt based on these longstanding principles. Business owners have made decisions on how they have planned to save for retirement based on these longstanding principles. Business owners have made decisions on how they hope to transfer their businesses to the next generation based on these longstanding principles. Your party’s tax proposals will wreak havoc on the financial security of many business owners, once again, of all sizes.

Your party’s tax proposals represent profound changes to the Income Tax Act and the taxation of private corporations. However, the tax release was made right in the middle of the summer vacation months and only provides for a 75 day consultation period. I am trying not to be cynical but this appears to be political gamesmanship at its worst and I strongly suggest the majority of Canadians can see this for what it is. Dramatic changes such as these need to be extensively studied to determine the true impact to the citizens of Canada and our economy. These changes are so significant they could end up bankrupting people. The tax release rushes to conclusions to questions that are multifaceted, this is not the way to go about this process at all.


SNIPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP


Here is an idea, let all business owners acquire assets so that they can attain the same level of financial security to that of a public service employee with a defined benefit pension plan. For example, if a public service pension plan is equivalent to $2,000,000 of savings then perhaps this could be a proper threshold to allow business owners to acquire the same level of assets without being punitively taxed. This seems like a fair resolution. Do you know if the Liberal Party has considered it? There are many options and alternatives that need to be explored before your party’s tax proposals are allowed to pass.

I have reviewed the tax proposals in detail. A recurring theme of your party’s proposals, and specifically how they are being presented to the public, is the need to equalize a business owner with someone who is paid salary as an employee. Business owners add to the economy by way of their intellect, will and determination, as do employees. However, business owners of private companies, unlike public corporations, take on all the risk of a business. They guarantee the corporations bank loans by putting up their homes as collateral. They inject funds into the business as necessary. They pay themselves last, after employees, lenders and Canada Revenue Agency are paid. I had clients, a husband and wife, who had their family business go bankrupt this past year due to the loss of a major customer. They had to liquidate their life savings in order to pay the corporation’s bank debt and pay the employees. All of the risk of that business flowed to them. This must never be overlooked in the discussion of tax policy. You may say "But the employees lost their jobs as well." To that I say it was through the effort, energy and risk taking of the business owner that those jobs were created in the first place. If you ask me if business owners should have some form of upside for their efforts, I emphatically say yes. This only makes sense because that same business owner is left holding the bag if the business does not survive.

My comments only address a small portion of the inherent problems with your party’s tax proposals. I strongly urge you to educate yourself about what these proposals really mean to the citizens of Canada and the Canadian economy and do not rely on the words of your party’s leader, he is deceiving you.

I would be more than willing to explain any of my comments. I do hope you act appropriately regarding this incredibly important issue that is before you.



With kind regards,

Peter MacIntosh, CPA, CA - Partner

White Kennedy LLP


https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/response ... -macintosh
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Re: Trudeau proposes increasing income tax rate to 93%

Postby Gone_Fishin » Sep 11th, 2017, 6:19 pm

Don't worry, the taxes will tax themselves. Or something like that. In a word, disgusting. Trudeau lays another lie on the great unwashed masses of ignoramuses.
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Re: Trudeau proposes increasing income tax rate to 93%

Postby ninetyninepct » Sep 11th, 2017, 7:31 pm

The average gross pay for a doctor sits at $339,000.

Hmmm. Is it even worth it at the end of the year? Knock off office rent, assistant salaries and mandatory CPP, UIC WCB etc, etc, specialized equipment, Liability insurance, Medical Association fees and on and on. Double the CPP and other crap for being self-employed and there isn't much left. I seriously doubt if a Doctor takes home 1/3 of that. Hell, a city bus driver almost makes as much and also has a massive benefit plan and golden retirement income. Only 7.5 hrs / day.

Now, if by chance the Doc could hire his spouse as nurse / assistant, they could have a decent income. They have to hire somebody. Trudeau wants to kill that idea. He and Morneau ARE as stupid as they look.

Why does Trudeau hate Canada so intently?

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Re: Trudeau proposes increasing income tax rate to 93%

Postby JLives » Sep 11th, 2017, 9:22 pm

ninetyninepct wrote:The average gross pay for a doctor sits at $339,000.

Hmmm. Is it even worth it at the end of the year? Knock off office rent, assistant salaries and mandatory CPP, UIC WCB etc, etc, specialized equipment, Liability insurance, Medical Association fees and on and on. Double the CPP and other crap for being self-employed and there isn't much left. I seriously doubt if a Doctor takes home 1/3 of that. Hell, a city bus driver almost makes as much and also has a massive benefit plan and golden retirement income. Only 7.5 hrs / day.

Now, if by chance the Doc could hire his spouse as nurse / assistant, they could have a decent income. They have to hire somebody. Trudeau wants to kill that idea. He and Morneau ARE as stupid as they look.

Why does Trudeau hate Canada so intently?


Money is not the sole motivator which is something many fail to acknowledge. I have no doubt my family doctor would be helping people for zero dollars if that was the situation. Being a healer is who she is to the bone.
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Re: Trudeau proposes increasing income tax rate to 93%

Postby JLives » Sep 11th, 2017, 9:59 pm

Gone_Fishin wrote:While pixie dust and unicorns are fine for those who don't aspire to provide solid incomes for themselves, the fact is that the true investment that runs our economy and provides the tax dollars to support our social services won't happen without the prospect of a great enough return for those risking capital. Trudeau himself is a huge fan of globalisation, and globalists realize that the world is now open to receive their investments, and if Canada isn't favourable, it has never been easier to invest elsewhere.

Investment money has been fleeing Canada at an accelerated pace for the past two years. The key barometer of investment in Canada, the TSX, was the worst performing index of every country in the G20 in the first half of 2017. Yes, the worst, dead last, not just below average. Stock prices increase when demand to invest in those companies goes up. Demand to invest in Canada is currently the worst in the G20, and it's 100% because of national policies such as taxation that is driving money elsewhere.

Although some may say so what, they better stop and think about their personal retirement funds, and the CPP, which depend on that investment to provide a return for your retirement. Trudeau has taken what was the strongest economy of the G7 under Harper, and turned it into the weakest in the G20. Those facts don't lie.


I would have responded sooner but I've been busy working and playing. My experiences are not pixie dust and unicorns. The employers I have had over the course of my career have consistently been people who want to invest in people. I'm sorry if you haven't experienced that and have become jaded.

I hope you eventually come to understand that it is possible to earn a decent living and provide the people who helped you earn that money a decent wage at the same time. We just have different definitions of "decent".
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Re: Trudeau proposes increasing income tax rate to 93%

Postby Gone_Fishin » Sep 12th, 2017, 6:30 am

I'm thankful that Canada wasn't built by people satisfied with mediocrity. We'd be in a shambles if it had been.
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It's the same when you are stupid.

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