Scheer's policy failure

[JLives]

where has there been good? Everywhere socialist have trodden and been given any kind of power, they've caused a massive mess of economic destruction. Communism sucks. Socialism sucks almost as much. Both are dead ideologies from a past century of abject failure.

The country you currently live in comes too mind, despite you wanting to Americanize it.

[The Green Barbarian]

The country you currently live in comes too mind, despite you wanting to Americanize it.

Thank goodness that Canada isn't socialist to the point of the Euro-trash, despite the evil and disgusting Left wanting to turn us into North Korea West.

[neilsimon]

Your anti-Antifa (should that be pro-fascist since two negatives are a positive? I jest) rhetoric is over simplified and ignorant.

And your pro-Antifa rhetoric is over-simplified and ignorant too. And also justifying hate and violence, and so perpetrating evil. I actually shake my head here on this Antifa crap. We all have common ground that we condemn violence committed by Neo-Nazis and fascists. Violence and hatred is not acceptable. What blows me away is how committed all of the hard-core leftists are here to a political agenda, that they willfully sell themselves to support hate and violence committed by the left. It just blows me away, seriously, at how easily you all sell out your principles to support evil. It's actually amazing.

I am not pro-Antifa and have not stated a single pro-Antifa statement, but I realise that compared with Nazis they are far less objectionable (if you call that being pro-Antifa, so be it, but that's a really low bar). I also realise that Antifa have communist/socialist sentiments, but they are not communists as you portray them. In fact, they are against totalitarianism, which is the biggest source of problem with Nazi and communist regimes.

Anyway, are you going to answer my question, do you blame capitalism for the many millions of deaths by capitalist regimes and if not, how do you rationalise blaming communism for the deaths by communist regimes? What is different between the two ideologies that allows one to be absolved of its adherents' behaviour where the other cannot, other than the fact that you are an adherent to capitalist ideology (as am I, by the way)?

[bob vernon]

My evil left and antifa activities today included holding a young baby baby of mixed race (the horror) on my lap for a few minutes and having a chat with the neighborhood Muslim dude who's planning to put in another greenhouse on his farm. This will be a totally evil greenhouse because it will be heated, at least in part, with geothermal heating, a totally leftist concept. I'm so full of hate and rage right now. LOL

[Ka-El]

That's disgusting bob! Are you joining those cowards always hiding behind smiles while off topic are spreading your message of peace and committing your disgusting acts of acceptance. One day, someone leading the Liberals will grow a backbone and have the guts to condemn Off topic horrible acts of disgusting tolerance, and maybe, just maybe, the Liberals will be electable again. Until then, stuff your disgusting notions of diversity and inclusion! (I think I just popped a blood vessel)

[Queen K]

OHHHH GOD Bob Vernon might get notions in his head to install a solar panel or two.

[The Green Barbarian]

I am not pro-Antifa

your failure to condemn their hatred and violence has me believing that you are tacitly complicit in their hatred and violence. If you actually are against violence and hatred, you would think that you would back away from such horrible people, but it appears that in the name of pushing a leftist political agenda, you refuse to so. And I find that very sad, that you would sell out your principles and support violence and hatred. I just don't get it.

[The Green Barbarian]

My evil left and antifa activities today

No Bob, if you truly were an evil left Antifa scumbag, you would have been in Boston today.

[neilsimon]

I am not pro-Antifa

your failure to condemn their hatred and violence has me believing that you are tacitly complicit in their hatred and violence. If you actually are against violence and hatred, you would think that you would back away from such horrible people, but it appears that in the name of pushing a leftist political agenda, you refuse to so. And I find that very sad, that you would sell out your principles and support violence and hatred. I just don't get it.

I have already condemned their violence elsewhere and a hatred for fascism is not really worth condemning. But you continually fail to address the issues I put to you:

Anyway, are you going to answer my question, do you blame capitalism for the many millions of deaths by capitalist regimes and if not, how do you rationalise blaming communism for the deaths by communist regimes? What is different between the two ideologies that allows one to be absolved of its adherents' behaviour where the other cannot, other than the fact that you are an adherent to capitalist ideology (as am I, by the way)?

[Glacier]

Blaming Capitalism is like blaming atheism. There is no doctrine of Capitalism that calls for the killing and subjugation of people. Now, with National Socialism and Marxism and Islam there's a clear connection between the ideology and the violence.

For the most part there tends to be violence, not between good and evil, but between two similarly aligned sides, be it Protestant and Catholic, Shia and Sunni, or Neo-Nazis and Antifa.

‘Antifa’ radicals aren’t good because they fight Nazis

[neilsimon]

Blaming Capitalism is like blaming atheism. There is no doctrine of Capitalism that calls for the killing and subjugation of people.

Exactly. And there is nothing in Communism which intrinsically calls for the killing and subjugation of people either. Same with socialism, and many other ideologies. So, how can one condemn communism for the deaths at the hands of it's practitioners and refuse to do the same with capitalism?

Now, with National Socialism and Marxism and Islam there's a clear connection between the ideology and the violence.

Why did you have to bring in religion to the mix? It just makes you look like an Islamophobe. If we replaced Islam with Judaism, Christianity and a whole host of others, the sentence would be equally correct.

For the most part there tends to be violence, not between good and evil, but between two similarly aligned sides, be it Protestant and Catholic, Shia and Sunni, or Neo-Nazis and Antifa.

That's a huge oversimplification and shows a complete lack of understanding of the motivations for the conflicts among these groups. The Protestant and Catholic conflict alone is so complex that you could fill a large part of a library on the topic and still not be considered to have done it justice. It stretched and stretches across centuries and peoples and it has rarely really been about the differences of religion and far more about the differences in power and right to self-determination.
Yes, armed struggle is not between good and evil but were we to use such kinds of labels, it is more correct to say between evil and more evil. The complexity of the situation is such that what often appear as minor differences to some, are surrogates for huge imbalances in the systems.
This is not what is going on with Antifa and neo-Nazis. Your inability to see the gaping difference between Antifa and neo-Nazis is astounding. Other than the fact that they both resort to violent means from time to time, there is little commonality between the two. They have completely different motivations.

[The Green Barbarian]

. Your inability to see the gaping difference between Antifa and neo-Nazis is astounding. .

What I find astounding is your and your compatriots continual defence of violence and hatred committed by Antifa. You have no morale high-ground here. You either condemn all acts of hatred and violence, or you are selling out your own very principles and placing yourself on the altar of leftist dogma. There is no other way out here. All violence and hatred are bad, no matter if these acts are committed by the left or right. Stating you condemn all hatred and violence does not make you "left' or "right", it just makes you a human being that cares about community and puts forth one edict for the human race above all others - unconditional love. There is no nuance, no way to spin out of this. Condemn all or you condone hatred and violence. That's it.

[The Green Barbarian]

Blaming Capitalism is like blaming atheism. There is no doctrine of Capitalism that calls for the killing and subjugation of people. Now, with National Socialism and Marxism and Islam there's a clear connection between the ideology and the violence.

For the most part there tends to be violence, not between good and evil, but between two similarly aligned sides, be it Protestant and Catholic, Shia and Sunni, or Neo-Nazis and Antifa.

‘Antifa’ radicals aren’t good because they fight Nazis

Glacier - the final line in your link sums it up best. I wish all of the people here still trying to spin Antifa in a positive light would catch on to this extremely simple concept:

And that’s why this debate is so toxically stupid. Fine, antifa isn’t as bad as the KKK. Who cares? Since when is being less bad than the Klan a major moral accomplishment?

This is a "toxically stupid" debate. It isn't even a debate. Both are bad. Both are evil. The only reason anyone would try and bring in the "moral equivalency" argument is to deflect and obfuscate for political purposes. And that's just horrible motivation.

[neilsimon]

. Your inability to see the gaping difference between Antifa and neo-Nazis is astounding. .

What I find astounding is your and your compatriots continual defence of violence and hatred committed by Antifa.

Stop trying to pretend that I have not condemned the violence committed in the name of Antifa and those would would commit it.

You have no morale high-ground here. You either condemn all acts of hatred and violence, or you are selling out your own very principles and placing yourself on the altar of leftist dogma.

I do and often have openly criticised all unjustifiable acts of violence, in which I include violent protest. That said, some hatred is completely justifiable. Hatred of injustice, of discrimination, of bigotry, of fascism, etc. do not need to be condemned.

There is no other way out here. All violence and hatred are bad, no matter if these acts are committed by the left or right.

That's far too simplistic. Are you saying that killing a terrorist in self-defence, an extreme act of violence, is bad? Is it bad when a cop subdues a violent offender? Is it bad when we humanely kill a cow for food? All are forms of violence. Violence can be justifiable.

Stating you condemn all hatred and violence does not make you "left' or "right", it just makes you a human being that cares about community and puts forth one edict for the human race above all others - unconditional love. There is no nuance, no way to spin out of this. Condemn all or you condone hatred and violence. That's it.

No, just no. Don't you see that sometimes violence is the best solution we have, and that hatred can be justified and lead to good results?

[Glacier]

Why did you have to bring in religion to the mix? It just makes you look like an Islamophobe. If we replaced Islam with Judaism, Christianity and a whole host of others, the sentence would be equally correct.

Criticizing Islam is Islamophobic if you don't equally criticize Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, or Jainism in the same breath? That's like saying criticizing Neo-Nazis without blaming violence on both sides in the same breath is racist against white people. Damn, you just pulled a Donald Trump!