Scheer's policy failure

[maryjane48]

Antifa/Communists have killed more people than anyone. Nazis are more violent, BUT there are far viewer Nazis/Neo-Nazis than Antifa/Communists, which is why they have a long way to catch up to the Communists. Both are violent sadistic ideologies, and anyone who defends either is a racist scmbag. Being a Nazi is worse than being a Communist just like raping 8 women is worse than raping 4.

hardly . antifa isnt and never was stalin . you say your against it but by making a false comparrisan you failed . antifa stood up to nazis while us in west twiddled our thumbs trying make money of hitlers regime . your 100 percent wrong on this and should do more thinking before putting fokt in mouth .


as was pointed out earlier if there were no nazis there wouldnt have been antifa . . stalin lenin and any other so called communist leader is really a hitler under the banner of what ever movement they hijacked . you be we serverd stop paying attention to likes of bannon and ezra .

[neilsimon]

Antifa/Communists have killed more people than anyone. Nazis are more violent, BUT there are far viewer Nazis/Neo-Nazis than Antifa/Communists, which is why they have a long way to catch up to the Communists. Both are violent sadistic ideologies, and anyone who defends either is a racist scmbag. Being a Nazi is worse than being a Communist just like raping 8 women is worse than raping 4.

Antifa=/=Communists
Even if they are communists, you fall into the common trap of blaming deaths caused by communists on communism.

Are you going to blame capitalism for all the deaths caused by capitalist regimes, including dictatorships, etc.?
Are you going to blame Christianity for all the deaths caused by Christians?
How about blaming democracy for all of the deaths caused by democratically elected regimes?
Blaming communism for the deaths caused by communist regimes is dishonest if you wont.

Here's a link to the SJW, Antifa thread where I went into a bit more detail:
http://forums.castanet.net/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=74054#p2227949

[Glacier]

A distinction without a difference. Waving hammer and sickle = Communist; waving swastika = National Socialist. Like I've said before, Nazis are far more violent, but ultimately, Communism becomes violent as well for it is totalitarian and cannot handle dissenting views.

[maryjane48]

comunism in a vaccum translates to workers rights . national socialsm was always about hate and intolerance . no one is arguing stalin lenin leaders of communist china north korea is human but they have zero connection to antifa where the right does have direct connection to the worst of germany . i feel confident you know what i mean

[Glacier]

It's a little more complex than that. The Nazis who hate Jews and blacks have very little to do with those on the right who are there because they want smaller government or individual freedom. Nazis weren't into smaller government, they were into making the government big enough that it could make sure there weren't any Jews and gypsies. Now, that is not to say there aren't regular right-wingers who aren't racist (sadly, there are), only that racism is an ideology independent of the modern right and the modern left.

[neilsimon]

It's a little more complex than that. The Nazis who hate Jews and blacks have very little to do with those on the right who are there because they want smaller government or individual freedom. Nazis weren't into smaller government, they were into making the government big enough that it could make sure there weren't any Jews and gypsies. Now, that is not to say there aren't regular right-wingers who aren't racist (sadly, there are), only that racism is an ideology independent of the modern right and the modern left.

Nobody is saying that Nazis=Small government conservatives. Nazis weren't "into making government big enough that it could make sure there weren't any Jews and gypsies", that was just the only way they could achieve their ends. That said, Nazis were authoritarian and as such, it's hard to impose an authoritarian state without some significant government presence.

Similarly, those who are truly in favour of small government probably don't care about statues on government property as they probably don't think that the government should own such properties in the first place. True small government sees no need for the government to involve itself in preservation or glorification of the past.

More individual freedom is actually a liberal stance and not particularly left or right (it's liberal vs authoritarian). For instance, the right to have an abortion is definitely seen as a left wing issue, but it's certainly one of body-autonomy and individual freedoms. Similarly, the right to own weapons is also an individual freedom issue, generally seen as a right-wing one.

While being right-wing certainly doesn't make you racist, there is a clear correlation between being racist and being right-wing (essentially, just because you are conservative, doesn't mean you are racist, but you're much more likely to be conservative if you are racist). So, racism isn't really so easily separable from the right, but largely because the terms right and left are absurdly over-simplistic. For instance, you probably think I'm quite left-wing, and in some ways I am, but I'm also fiercely in favour of liberal policies for individuals (freedoms if you will, though it's much more than that), and I generally favour market driven economies with controls against monopolistic and predatory practices.

At the same time, I'm not actually particularly in favour of small government as I believe that it leads to a system incapable to preventing huge inequality in society, and one where the population are at the mercy of the few. Essentially, such a system is what we had before WW I, and it lead to the rise of Communism. We don't want to go back there.

[Glacier]

While being right-wing certainly doesn't make you racist, there is a clear correlation between being racist and being right-wing (essentially, just because you are conservative, doesn't mean you are racist, but you're much more likely to be conservative if you are racist).

That's a really interesting statement worth pursuing. I'm not being antagonistic or necessarily disputing it, but I think it's a bold thesis that's worthy of discussion. A few years ago I would have agreed with you, but now I'm not so sure. Here are some questions I'd start with:

1) How many people are racist? Is it 90%? 10%? 4%? 1%?
2) How do we define racist?
3) What is the correlation coefficient between left-right and racism?
4) Is the relationship linear, exponential, parabolic?
5) If society has become far less racist over time, especially in the US south (and I think we all agree that it has), why have the Republicans gains ground on the Democrats in the south? Wouldn't we expect the opposite trend?

[JLives]

A distinction without a difference. Waving hammer and sickle = Communist; waving swastika = National Socialist. Like I've said before, Nazis are far more violent, but ultimately, Communism becomes violent as well for it is totalitarian and cannot handle dissenting views.

Communism is stateless so stating that it's totalitarian and can't handle dissenting views doesn't pan out. We've never seen actual communism on this planet. We've seen various manifestations of Socialism, both bad and good.

[Glacier]

^ Well true to a certain degree. North Korea is probably the closest we have, where there's like a 98% planned economy. There's also no such thing as a capitalist country either if you're talking pure free-market economy. By all accounts Singapore is the closest in the world, and it's only about 86% capitalist.

[The Green Barbarian]

Communism is stateless so stating that it's totalitarian and can't handle dissenting views doesn't pan out. We've never seen actual communism on this planet. We've seen various manifestations of Socialism, both bad and good.

where has there been good? Everywhere socialist have trodden and been given any kind of power, they've caused a massive mess of economic destruction. Communism sucks. Socialism sucks almost as much. Both are dead ideologies from a past century of abject failure.

[The Green Barbarian]

Sorry GB. You can't deflect from who the real perpetrators of violence and hate are.

Real perpetrators? What the hell are you talking about? Antifa is a violent scum-bag organization rife with hatred. Just because they also are communists and so therefore it is your kind of hate doesn't make it any better. The only one deflecting from the true evil of Antifa is you and your gang of Marxists here, and that I find truly sad.

[The Green Barbarian]

Antifa/Communists have killed more people than anyone. Nazis are more violent, BUT there are far viewer Nazis/Neo-Nazis than Antifa/Communists, which is why they have a long way to catch up to the Communists. Both are violent sadistic ideologies, and anyone who defends either is a racist scmbag. Being a Nazi is worse than being a Communist just like raping 8 women is worse than raping 4.

100% right. Both are awful and should not be allowed. The fact that some here are deflecting and defending the Antifa slime is just mind-boggling and pure evil. I am actually just plain shocked that someone could call them "defenders of good" - that's just so awful I am sickened.

[The Green Barbarian]

Antifa=/=Communists
Even if they are communists, you fall into the common trap of blaming deaths caused by communists on communism.

Of course you blame deaths by communist regimes on communism. It's completely assinine to not do this! Of course communism is to blame. There is no "common trap" here, it's telling the truth. Communism is responsible for millions upon millions of deaths (including my relatives), and anyone trying to say otherwise is guilty of perpetrating pure evil.

Antifa is pure evil. Those who won't condemn them are tacitly complicit in the evil that that organization perpetrates.

[neilsimon]

Antifa=/=Communists
Even if they are communists, you fall into the common trap of blaming deaths caused by communists on communism.

Of course you blame deaths by communist regimes on communism. It's completely assinine to not do this! Of course communism is to blame. There is no "common trap" here, it's telling the truth. Communism is responsible for millions upon millions of deaths (including my relatives), and anyone trying to say otherwise is guilty of perpetrating pure evil.

Antifa is pure evil. Those who won't condemn them are tacitly complicit in the evil that that organization perpetrates.

You know what is asinine, to ignore the rest of my comment and just respond out of context. I trust you are similarly willing to blame capitalism for the many millions of deaths which capitalist regimes caused, or are you a hypocrite?

For instance I could easily say (about as accurately as what you said):

Of course you blame deaths by colonial regimes on colonialism. It's completely assinine to not do this! Of course colonialism is to blame. There is no "common trap" here, it's telling the truth. Colonialism was responsible for millions upon millions of deaths (including my relatives), and anyone trying to say otherwise is guilty of perpetrating pure evil.

Your anti-Antifa (should that be pro-fascist since two negatives are a positive? I jest) rhetoric is over simplified and ignorant.

[The Green Barbarian]

Your anti-Antifa (should that be pro-fascist since two negatives are a positive? I jest) rhetoric is over simplified and ignorant.

And your pro-Antifa rhetoric is over-simplified and ignorant too. And also justifying hate and violence, and so perpetrating evil. I actually shake my head here on this Antifa crap. We all have common ground that we condemn violence committed by Neo-Nazis and fascists. Violence and hatred is not acceptable. What blows me away is how committed all of the hard-core leftists are here to a political agenda, that they willfully sell themselves to support hate and violence committed by the left. It just blows me away, seriously, at how easily you all sell out your principles to support evil. It's actually amazing.