Bombardier vs Boeing

Re: Bombardier vs Boeing

Postby maryjane48 » Sep 27th, 2017, 6:36 pm

Riiiggggghhht. It's the left the loves protectionism and corporate welfare. hardly . you are trying to paint canadas company in bad light to take a cheap shot at out priminister . thats treason [icon_lol2.gif]
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Re: Bombardier vs Boeing

Postby GordonH » Sep 27th, 2017, 7:22 pm

Omnitheo wrote:So many unpatriotic people in here.

The same kind of people who would support things like Trump’s “make America great, buy American”. Somehow they hold no love for our own local industry. Every airline manufacturer in the world is government subsidized. It would be impossible to compete with the tens of billions that Boeing receives from the government otherwise.

What bombardier receives in subsidies it turns into airliners which put Canadians to work, and are sold into foreign markets bringing revenue back into Canada which the government takes tax from.

1 billion subsidy for 20 billion in profits is a pretty good deal.

Why is that everyone here is so much against this Canadian company? What is your alternative? Where are your complaints about Boeing or Airbus for doing the same thing?

Should we just step out of the game? Canada should give up on high tech manufacturing? Leave the industry to subsidized Boeing or Chinese manufacturers? Have our Canadian engineers migrate elsewhere to take their skills to rival countries/companies?

Where were these criticisms while Harper was the one handing out the subsidies? If it were Scheer in power saying “we’re going to support our Canadian workers, engineers, and industry” would we be reading the same comments here?


It's shameful a company like Bombardier is unable to make profits needed to be self sustainable. So that the taxpayers don't have to keep bailing them out. Then those taxpayer dollars could be used elsewhere i.e wait times, those with disabilities etc... etc
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Re: Bombardier vs Boeing

Postby Catsumi » Sep 27th, 2017, 7:27 pm

Bombaridier handouts? I have been yelping about that for the last 40 years, through liberal AND conservative governments.

Public teats are sore and dried out!

If this company is such a GREAT success why do they still have their hands out for cash windfalls from the taxpayers? Endlessly?

:-X
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Re: Bombardier vs Boeing

Postby Glacier » Sep 27th, 2017, 10:03 pm

maryjane48 wrote:Riiiggggghhht. It's the left the loves protectionism and corporate welfare. hardly . you are trying to paint canadas company in bad light to take a cheap shot at out priminister . thats treason [icon_lol2.gif]

ha ha, well I am generalizing. Both Liberal and Conservative governments over the years have been tripping over each other to hand over money, but in general, it's more of a right-wing thing to completely cut off corporate welfare and open up free-trade.
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Re: Bombardier vs Boeing

Postby lesliepaul » Sep 27th, 2017, 10:07 pm

Omnitheo wrote:So many unpatriotic people in here.

The same kind of people who would support things like Trump’s “make America great, buy American”. Somehow they hold no love for our own local industry. Every airline manufacturer in the world is government subsidized. It would be impossible to compete with the tens of billions that Boeing receives from the government otherwise.

What bombardier receives in subsidies it turns into airliners which put Canadians to work, and are sold into foreign markets bringing revenue back into Canada which the government takes tax from.

1 billion subsidy for 20 billion in profits is a pretty good deal.

Why is that everyone here is so much against this Canadian company? What is your alternative? Where are your complaints about Boeing or Airbus for doing the same thing?

Should we just step out of the game? Canada should give up on high tech manufacturing? Leave the industry to subsidized Boeing or Chinese manufacturers? Have our Canadian engineers migrate elsewhere to take their skills to rival countries/companies?

Where were these criticisms while Harper was the one handing out the subsidies? If it were Scheer in power saying “we’re going to support our Canadian workers, engineers, and industry” would we be reading the same comments here?


Omnitheo...........well said and I have stated the same thing. None of the experts on here see the big picture......only what they feel it should be in their own personal world. Not a single aircraft manufacturer on the planet survives without government money.......it is the nature of the industry. Bombardier gets a drop in the bucket in the big picture compared to Boeing, Airbus and Embraer and many others. The experts on here will ignore the fact Bombardier has paid back billions and if you add in the taxes collected from employee salaries and spinoff employee salaries..........its totaled billions more. The experts ignore that FACT!

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Re: Bombardier vs Boeing

Postby The Green Barbarian » Sep 28th, 2017, 11:16 am

Omnitheo wrote:
1 billion subsidy for 20 billion in profits is a pretty good deal.


Not sure where your "$20 billion in profits" number comes from but from reading Bombardier's actual financial statements I see that they lost over $1 billion in 2016 and over $5 billion in 2015. They lost a further $490 million in the last quarter.
http://montreal.ctvnews.ca/bombardier-l ... -1.3016204

This doesn't seem to be a "good deal" for anyone, and if anything, these subsidies seem to only be propping up really bad management. I've seen many right-wing and just plain good business people state that they don't have a problem with the subsidies, but it's the management team at Bombardier that has to go. And they won't go, because they still control a large chunk of the voting stock. Make future subsidies contingent on the Bombardier family giving up their voting rights, so that people who know what they are doing can take over the company, and I'm all on board. As it stands now you have a government-like situation in place (like in BC right now for instance), with incompetent boobs who can't be fired running the ship. Only these incompetent Bombardier boobs can't even be voted out. And JT's just keeps throwing good money (our money) after bad.
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Re: Bombardier vs Boeing

Postby maryjane48 » Sep 28th, 2017, 6:45 pm

The company boeing received $457 million in federal grants, which are typically non-repayable, between 2000 and 2014. In addition to that, there was a whopping $64 billion in federal loans and loan guarantees.

from global
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Re: Bombardier vs Boeing

Postby KevinJP » Sep 29th, 2017, 9:20 am

While I don't like the subsidies being paid to Bombardier, it's still not fair because Boeing is also being financed by the US government. Boeing are total hypocrites.
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Re: Bombardier vs Boeing

Postby lesliepaul » Sep 29th, 2017, 10:56 am

maryjane48 wrote:The company received $457 million in federal grants, which are typically non-repayable, between 2000 and 2014. In addition to that, there was a whopping $64 billion in federal loans and loan guarantees.

from global


Please proof read what you stated...........who are you talking about?????
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Re: Bombardier vs Boeing

Postby maryjane48 » Sep 29th, 2017, 11:02 am

boeing. it isnt rocket science
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Re: Bombardier vs Boeing

Postby Fancy » Sep 29th, 2017, 11:08 am

lesliepaul wrote:Please proof read what you stated...........who are you talking about?????

Article here:

https://globalnews.ca/news/3773916/bomb ... subsidies/
Fancy this, Fancy that and by the way, T*t for Tat
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Re: Bombardier vs Boeing

Postby Omnitheo » Sep 30th, 2017, 9:14 am

Went looking for news from US sites regarding this, curious what their comments would be. I was actually quite surprised to find this incredibly unbiased editorial from the Seattle Times.

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/b ... ombardier/

This was written before the 220% tariff had been placed even, but both the journalist and all the commenters know full well the hypocracy of Boeing, and how much they’re being a sore loser about a company buying non-Boeing planes, when Boeing had no reasonable product to sell.

Boeing simply doesn’t have a plane that meets Delta’s size and efficiency requirements for the routes it wants. The Bombardier CSeries is a very advanced jetliner made with new composite materials, and designed for passenger comfort. Even though the scale of the sale is peanuts next to the kinds of sales Boeing makes, they are afraid of any competition at all. Can’t let anyone else get in on this market.

Knowing that both companies receive government subsidies, and that Boeing takes the cake when it comes to subsidies, we can look past that part of the dispute and into what this really is. A company trying to monopolize the market. Using whatever shady means necessary. And Canadians suffering because of it.
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Re: Bombardier vs Boeing

Postby The Green Barbarian » Sep 30th, 2017, 12:20 pm

Omnitheo wrote:Went looking for news from US sites regarding this, curious what their comments would be. .


So no comment or defense for getting caught out on your $20 billion lie? Nothing regarding Bombardier's inept bumbling management group that can't be voted out? Nothing? Is is because you guys don't understand math? Or can't comprehend even basic business operating procedures? Or can't read financial statements? I agree that the tariff is unfair, but crying and whining about Boeing isn't the only issue here. Bombardier needs not just rivers of government cash to survive, they need management that isn't a bunch of dough-brains.
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Re: Bombardier vs Boeing

Postby Catsumi » Sep 30th, 2017, 6:57 pm

Bombardier (definition): an eastern Canada corporate entity specializing in receiving repeated cash bailouts and government subsidies, ie. A sucking black hole detested by long suffering taxpayers.

:biggrin:
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Re: Bombardier vs Boeing

Postby maryjane48 » Sep 30th, 2017, 8:42 pm

Catsumi wrote:Bombardier (definition): an eastern Canada corporate entity specializing in receiving repeated cash bailouts and government subsidies, ie. A sucking black hole detested by long suffering taxpayers.

:biggrin:

and yet you would support a american company doing same thing ? or the oil sands ?
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