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Bombardier vs Boeing

Re: Bombardier vs Boeing

Postby Dizzy1 » Oct 29th, 2017, 6:34 pm

GordonH wrote:
It all boils down to getting biggest bang for best price.... & who will get it to them on or before time.

That is a big part of the equation, but there's more to it. Performance (runway, fuel burn, pax loads, cargo, etc.) also play a very big role in the decision making.

For example, a B737NG gets about 2 percent better fuel burn then the A32x series, it also has somewhat better runway performance but is limited for belly cargo and also has a bit more range. So, depending on the airlines business model, one or the other can make a big difference in the financial and operational performance of the airline. Of course, manufacturer discounts can offset operational costs for a certain period of time, but decisions like these are airline specific.
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Re: Bombardier vs Boeing

Postby Dizzy1 » Nov 1st, 2017, 11:00 pm

Air Canada's first brand spankin' new B737 Max came in from BFI to YLW last night and is at Kelowna FlightCraft if any of ya'll wanna go out and protest

:runforlife:

EDIT: Nevermind, it just left for YYZ an hour ago.
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Re: Bombardier vs Boeing

Postby Omnitheo » Nov 7th, 2017, 11:28 pm

Great new video from one of my favourite channels goes into depth the battle between Boeing and Bombardier. He does a lot of videos about the aerospace industry, so I was happy to see one on this topic:

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Re: Bombardier vs Boeing

Postby Even Steven » Nov 7th, 2017, 11:39 pm

Dang it, I was going to post this.

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Re: Bombardier vs Boeing

Postby Blast » Jan 10th, 2018, 9:02 am

Wonder why the Trudeau government has been so silent on the ongoing protests in Iran???

https://coloneltedcampbell.blog/2018/01 ... ombardier/

Ted Campbell's Point of View ( this is not me) - Posted on January 7, 2018

Is it always all about Bombardier?

I said, a few days ago, that I thought it was time that Canadian feminists took another, long, hard look at Prime Minister Justin Trudeau who I characterized as a phoney, photo-op feminist.

But is there another reason that the Trudeau regime is silent on Iran? Is it because, as the (Iranian) Financial Tribune reports, “Canada will provide $100 million in finance for a deal between Montreal-based multinational aerospace and transportation company, Bombardier Inc., and Iran’s Qeshm Free Zone Organization for purchasing 10 passenger planes, the FTZ’s chief executive, Hamidreza Momeni, has said … [and] … “Our talks with Canada’s Bombardier are almost final,” he was quoted as saying by Iran’s Tinn News on Tuesday … [and, further] … Momeni said the $100-million finance will cover 80% of the deal, which entails the supply of the 104-seat planes.”

… so, perhaps, Bombardier and its creditors, rather than Airbus Industries, will see some profits.

Is this (a Bombardier contract) why Canada’s official government response to the ongoing protests in Iran has been so muted?
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Re: Bombardier vs Boeing

Postby Jflem1983 » Jan 10th, 2018, 9:47 am

So we are buying iran some planes. Well thats white of us
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Re: Bombardier vs Boeing

Postby fluffy » Jan 12th, 2018, 7:33 am

Underlying all the politics and shenanigans is the simple fact that the Bombardier C Series jet is a better product than both the Boeing and Airbus products in its class. For years these two heavy hitters have taken time off from their ongoing fight with each other to deal with this pesky little Canadian upstart through either dirty politics or selling their own aircraft at little or no profit just to keep Bombardier out of the market. The Airbus buy-in is the best thing that could have happened to them given the current state of affairs. Bombardier couldn't have hoped to win taking on both Airbus and Boeing, and now Airbus has the upper hand against Boeing. I'm all for this merger. And screw you and all the politicians in your pocket Boeing.
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Re: Bombardier vs Boeing

Postby Jflem1983 » Jan 12th, 2018, 7:57 am

fluffy wrote:Underlying all the politics and shenanigans is the simple fact that the Bombardier C Series jet is a better product than both the Boeing and Airbus products in its class. For years these two heavy hitters have taken time off from their ongoing fight with each other to deal with this pesky little Canadian upstart through either dirty politics or selling their own aircraft at little or no profit just to keep Bombardier out of the market. The Airbus buy-in is the best thing that could have happened to them given the current state of affairs. Bombardier couldn't have hoped to win taking on both Airbus and Boeing, and now Airbus has the upper hand against Boeing. I'm all for this merger. And screw you and all the politicians in your pocket Boeing.


Be kinda nice if Bombardier was forced into bankruptcy. After all it government money keeping them aloft.
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Re: Bombardier vs Boeing

Postby Blast » Jan 12th, 2018, 8:09 am

fluffy:
.... the simple fact that the Bombardier C Series jet is a better product than both the Boeing and Airbus products in its class


I take issue with the above statement. Do you want to produce references to back up that bold, unsubstantiated statement. Surely you are not a pilot with thousands of hours on Airbus, Boeing and Bombardier aircraft?

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Re: Bombardier vs Boeing

Postby Omnitheo » Jan 12th, 2018, 8:55 am

Jflem, the same is true of nearly every airline manufacturer. Boeing receives tens of billions in subsidies from us governments. Should they be bankrupt as well? Airbus? Embrier? What we’ll be left with is no airlines. I fly business weekly, and have been on dozens of Bombardier flights. Why would you want to put hundreds of thousands of workers out of a job? Lose billions in tax revenue and otherwise gut Canadian industries just because they received an assist from the government to help ensure a product went to market? You do know these payments aren’t just free handouts right? Previous Bombardier loans have all been related in full, and then some.

And in regards to the C-Series, Blast, this is actually true. For the types of routes that many airlines are now operating, the C-Series is an amazing plane that is much better than anything Boeing currently has to offer. The truth is Boeing simply does not make an equivalent plane to the C-Series, and thus why Delta opted for the Bombardier planes. And Blast if you read this thread, or watch the video just a few posts above, you will see ample references for the statement.

It’s like if you need a sedan, but you’re only being offered 2 door hatchbacks or SUVs. So you look to another company and they say they’ll give you a good deal on a sedan, so the SUV company petitions the government to make sedans more expensive to try and force you to buy an SUV that’s gonna cost you far more in gas and unused seats in the long run, also requires you to build a bigger garage, and won’t be available to you for another 4 years.
Last edited by Omnitheo on Jan 12th, 2018, 9:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bombardier vs Boeing

Postby fluffy » Jan 12th, 2018, 9:05 am

Blast wrote:I take issue with the above statement. Do you want to produce references to back up that bold, unsubstantiated statement. Surely you are not a pilot with thousands of hours on Airbus, Boeing and Bombardier aircraft?


https://seekingalpha.com/article/3996623-bombardiers-cseries-game-changer-industry

This is just one, from a popular investment counseling site, but there is no shortage of references for anyone who cares to do a little homework. This is the main reason that Boeing and Airbus have been ganging up on Bombardier for years, that the C Series is serious competition for Boeing's 737 series, and Airbus's 320 family. The C Series offers better passenger/mile economy with greater passenger comfort, making it very attractive in the highly competitive airline market. Both Boeing and Airbus have gone to considerable expense to thwart C Series sales by offering discounts on their own products to potential Bombardier customers.

No, I'm not a pilot but I have a few years in the airline business on my resume, more than enough to understand that getting customers to their destination cheaper than the next guy, and in greater comfort would make any aircraft manufacturer a contender to be reckoned with. This is also why Bombardier has received so much government support, the convincing argument that a superior product would eventually win out in this David vs. two Goliaths story. The buy-in by Airbus is yet another testament to the quality of the C Series.
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Re: Bombardier vs Boeing

Postby Jflem1983 » Jan 12th, 2018, 9:07 am

fluffy wrote:
Blast wrote:I take issue with the above statement. Do you want to produce references to back up that bold, unsubstantiated statement. Surely you are not a pilot with thousands of hours on Airbus, Boeing and Bombardier aircraft?


https://seekingalpha.com/article/3996623-bombardiers-cseries-game-changer-industry

This is just one, from a popular investment counseling site, but there is no shortage of references for anyone who cares to do a little homework. This is the main reason that Boeing and Airbus have been ganging up on Bombardier for years, that the C Series is serious competition for Boeing's 737 series, and Airbus's 320 family. The C Series offers better passenger/mile economy with greater passenger comfort, making it very attractive in the highly competitive airline market. Both Boeing and Airbus have gone to considerable expense to thwart C Series sales by offering discounts on their own products to potential Bombardier customers.

No, I'm not a pilot but I have a few years in the airline business on my resume, more than enough to understand that getting customers to their destination cheaper than the next guy, and in greater comfort would make any aircraft manufacturer a contender to be reckoned with. This is also why Bombardier has received so much government support, the convincing argument that a superior product would eventually win out in this David vs. two Goliaths story. The buy-in by Airbus is yet another testament to the quality of the C Series.



My understanding is airbus got in free. No money changed hands. Juat the government lost out on any chance of getting repaid.
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Re: Bombardier vs Boeing

Postby lesliepaul » Jan 12th, 2018, 1:14 pm

fluffy and Omnitheo seem to understand the aviation industry better that some so-called experts that HATE everything about BOMBARDIER and refuse to hear their strong points. I will not get into explaining ANYTHING about BOMBARDIER on this forum to the naysayers........I suggest you research on your own instead of reading "dime a dozen" analysts in the Globe or Post that are not players.
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Re: Bombardier vs Boeing

Postby Jflem1983 » Jan 12th, 2018, 2:13 pm

lesliepaul wrote:fluffy and Omnitheo seem to understand the aviation industry better that some so-called experts that HATE everything about BOMBARDIER and refuse to hear their strong points. I will not get into explaining ANYTHING about BOMBARDIER on this forum to the naysayers........I suggest you research on your own instead of reading "dime a dozen" analysts in the Globe or Post that are not players.



Ya u go on defending a company that sells same sled in montana for way less than u can buy it for here.

Market pricing they call it.

I call it what it is. Bs
Now they want to take our guns away . That would be just fine. Take em away from the criminals first . Ill gladly give u mine. "Charlie Daniels"

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Re: Bombardier vs Boeing

Postby lesliepaul » Jan 12th, 2018, 6:50 pm

Ya u go on defending a company that sells same sled in montana for way less than u can buy it for here.

Market pricing they call it.

I call it what it is. Bs
[/quote]

Haha.............rode Cat!

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