$10 + Million a Piece

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The Green Barbarian
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Re: $10 + Million a Piece

Post by The Green Barbarian »

Rider59 wrote:
Western cultures tend to assimilate into and respect other western cultures and values. Mid eastern cultures, not so much.




I'd like the Leftist snowflakes to explain why some Islamic cultures still condone slavery in our current day and age, but just like whenever the topic of Iran murdering people for being gay, they will just either change the subject or deflect. Like they always do.
"The woke narcissists who make up the progressive left are characterized by an absolute lack of such conscience, but are experts at exploiting its presence in others." - Jordan Peterson
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Verum
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Re: $10 + Million a Piece

Post by Verum »

Rider59 wrote:
Verum wrote:I love Western cultures, they have a lot to offer, but it takes a special kind of ignorance to think that they have a monopoly on respecting each other.


The last sentence would have one believe you are from one of these eastern countries. Are you?

You can list all the exceptions of western cultures all you want but they remain exceptions and generally are one group defending their home land/culture from invasion or annihilation. Eastern cultures have this infidel mindset embedded right into there religion and society and are trying to change/remove the western cultures to suit there agenda.

Firstly, and kind of obviously, I am not a "Western culture", so when I say "they" in that context, I mean "Western cultures" and not those people who embrace Western culture. As for where I am from, I fail to see how that makes my opinion relevant or otherwise, but you can rest easily and know that I am not "from one of these eastern countries". But I wonder if you'll want to know my skin colour next, and maybe my religion and ancestry too. I'm sure that one of them would be enough reason for you to dismiss my opinion as coming from someone beneath or lesser than you.

As for the rest of your comment, it just displays a serious lack of understanding especially when seen in the light of your previous statements. I would suggest that you go to some of "these eastern countries", but I don't want them thinking that your opinion is typically Canadian. Maybe you should try to get to know people of different background and culture to yourself, it might open your eyes.
Last edited by Verum on Oct 29th, 2017, 5:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Jonrox

Re: $10 + Million a Piece

Post by Jonrox »

The Green Barbarian wrote:
Jonrox wrote:Any time there’s a thread about Muslims or middle easterners, the same people show up with negative attitudes. Coincidence?


and every time the government shovels millions of taxpayer dollars at anyone who supposedly "had their rights violated" the same bleeding heart Trudeau lovers show up ready to defend the stupidity with gallons of sanctimony and virtue-signalling garbage. Coincidence?

I guess you need to be reminded that the Conservatives support the payments these three men received.
Jonrox

Re: $10 + Million a Piece

Post by Jonrox »

Rider59 wrote:
Jonrox wrote:Any time there’s a thread about Muslims or middle easterners, the same people show up with negative attitudes. Coincidence?


You mean the ones that don't want Canada to turn into the giant cesspool of humanity like the countries where these people came from? You mean the ones that want to protect Canadian culture from being turned into convoluted steaming pile of tribal or religious power struggles? You mean the ones that want to protect the Rights and Freedoms this country allows for and fought for by our forefathers and not have some foreigner dictate whats right and wrong?

You mean those people?

By railing against this payment you’re actually doing exactly the opposite of protecting the rights and freedoms this country allows for. You’re saying it’s completely ok if the government craps all over citizen rights and there are no repercussions for doing so. You seem to think we should let the government do whatever they want and we as citizens should just take it... rights be damned.

However, lucky for us both the governing party and opposition party agree that the rights of Canadians matter and took steps to rectify these specific past errors.
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The Green Barbarian
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Re: $10 + Million a Piece

Post by The Green Barbarian »

Jonrox wrote:I guess you need to be reminded that the Conservatives support the payments these three men received.


I was also cheesed when Harper paid Arar the $10 million. Can anyone answer the question - why do these guys get $10 million? Does everyone whose "rights are violated" get a cheque now?
"The woke narcissists who make up the progressive left are characterized by an absolute lack of such conscience, but are experts at exploiting its presence in others." - Jordan Peterson
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The Green Barbarian
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Re: $10 + Million a Piece

Post by The Green Barbarian »

Jonrox wrote:. You’re saying it’s completely ok if the government craps all over citizen rights


again with the sanctimonious bibble-babble. What about the $10 million?? Isn't it excessive? Doesn't it *bleep* you off? Or is that warm glow in your little liberal tummy over-ride the anger somehow?
"The woke narcissists who make up the progressive left are characterized by an absolute lack of such conscience, but are experts at exploiting its presence in others." - Jordan Peterson
Jonrox

Re: $10 + Million a Piece

Post by Jonrox »

No the $10 million per guy isn’t excessive when it comes to the value of our rights.

You can try to namecall by calling me a Liberal but I’ve mentioned it several times that I voted Conservative for as long as I can remember before the last election. I lived in PM Harper’s riding and still think he was one of the best PM’s the country has ever had.
Jonrox

Re: $10 + Million a Piece

Post by Jonrox »

The Green Barbarian wrote:
Jonrox wrote:I guess you need to be reminded that the Conservatives support the payments these three men received.


I was also cheesed when Harper paid Arar the $10 million. Can anyone answer the question - why do these guys get $10 million? Does everyone whose "rights are violated" get a cheque now?

When rights are violated on this level... yes, everyone gets a cheque. So I guess the government had better get its crap together before they do it again.
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Catsumi
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Re: $10 + Million a Piece

Post by Catsumi »

It sickens me that this thread, like so many others has devolved into personal attacks, partisanship, racism, deflections and blindness to the real issue that was to be discussed, and that is Why Is Ten Million The Going Rate?

In my post of Oct. 27 at 11:03 a.m. I took care to not blame ANY political party for what happened, only to point out that they did the best they could under very trying, frightening times. You may not remember those harrowing days, perhaps you were still wearing diapers but know everything now. You do not address those times in history or have any sympathy for how and why things played out as they did. I will remind everyone that back in 2001 North America was a unit more so then than now;: an attack on one was an attack on all.

One, possibly two of these men had a relationship with Khadar Senior and with Bin Laden, the most wanted man on the planet at that time so only the feeble minded cannot understand why they were on a watchlist. When choosing to travel to a countries that were intent on harming N. America they were detained...anyway, this time, read my post of Oct 27 without skipping. The end result is that the RCMP and CSIS did not harm a hair on their heads, only shared a watchlist, alerts and concerns about troublesome relationships, and asked that pertinent questions should be posed and answered. This is now very expensive water under the bridge; Now they are declared innocent, lily white and pure, and have collected handsomely from Canadian taxpayers.

Verum dismissed the horror of Hall and Ridsel's death by decapitation with "we do not negotiate with terrorists" but could have added, "but we believe in paying them very well". These men might have been saved with a small (in comparison with 10M) payment in exchange for their lives. But why bother, right? Their poor, bereft families...I can not begin to imagine their anguish everyday remembering this is how their husbands and fathers died. This is what could be termed "torture" in every sense of the word.

So, back to why $10 Million? The first payout I can recall is not that far back. It was to David Milgaard, an innocent man who was wrongfully imprisoned with real murderers, child rapists, serial assaulters, pedophiles, the worst of humanity. I met with David (a broken man by this point) for coffee once during his preliminary release. To put his imprisonment of TWENTY-FIVE YEARS against a 30 day prisoner as one of these three, at the SAME rate of recompense is obscene and just plain wrong. David should by comparison get 100 Million.

The end result of this latest round of questionable magnanimous payouts is that Canadians across the country are roused once again in anger. (Check out letters to editor, editorials, etc). NOT anger as JT would wish for, against the RCMP and CSIS, but against OUR tax money being scattered about so easily with NO questions to be asked. We are to be silent. Just shut up and do not protest. Put your brain to sleep looking at socks and hair. Be lulled and gulled. This is the new Canada.

Let me posit this scenario to you for you to read, comprehend and only then answer:

There are approximately 60 newish Canadians fighting against Canada and USA in Iraq and Syria who will be on their way back to Canada, their "home" very soon. (Source, Kamloops News editorial Oct. 28). We consider them to be part of terrorist organizations and well trained by them. Now, just "what if" ten of them were wounded by Canadian troops and they decide to sue our government for $10M each once they return?

1. First question is a Canadian a Canadian a canadian and other such tripe to determine who is more Canadian than the other?
2. Should the wounded terrorists be paid out for fighting against Canada?
3. Would you be willing to foot that bill out of your own pocket?

This is how far the argument can be pushed for payouts to canadians travelling to iffy countries and taking part in iffy enterprises.

How you answer will indicate what kind of person you are. It's ok, I already know.

I also know you will willfully misunderstand this post so not holding my breath waiting for your synapses to mesh. Your little peashooter loaded with an ironic statement I made is the best you can do.

Now, bring on the deflections!
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Raven1
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Re: $10 + Million a Piece

Post by Raven1 »

It's really quite simple.....anyone with terrorist ties...be they past or present isn't entitled to protection of their rights as a Canadian. Not saying you can't gain citizenship thru rehabilitation if your actions are in the past but ..... any future proof of terrorist ties automatically denies you access to any of Canada's and if a Canadian born you go directly to a special kind of jail.....kind of like Gitmo.....only somewhere like Tuktoyuktuk.

Canada relinquishes responsibility for you if you voluntarily for pleasure/family purposes visit any war torn country.

just for starters.
Jonrox

Re: $10 + Million a Piece

Post by Jonrox »

If Canadians break laws they face consequences. Fighting against Canadian troops is treasonous and anyone who does so should face the full brunt of Canadian law.

This is way off topic though because the three men in question weren’t terrorists.

David Milgaard should have got a lot more than he did (in today’s dollars it is more than $10 million but still not enough).
Last edited by Jonrox on Oct 29th, 2017, 8:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Raven1
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Re: $10 + Million a Piece

Post by Raven1 »

You can't compare this subject to that of David Milgaard
Jonrox

Re: $10 + Million a Piece

Post by Jonrox »

I agree. It was Catsumi that brought up Milgaard though.
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Verum
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Re: $10 + Million a Piece

Post by Verum »

Raven1 wrote:It's really quite simple.....anyone with terrorist ties...be they past or present isn't entitled to protection of their rights as a Canadian. Not saying you can't gain citizenship thru rehabilitation if your actions are in the past but ..... any future proof of terrorist ties automatically denies you access to any of Canada's and if a Canadian born you go directly to a special kind of jail.....kind of like Gitmo.....only somewhere like Tuktoyuktuk.

Canada relinquishes responsibility for you if you voluntarily for pleasure/family purposes visit any war torn country.

just for starters.

What constitutes "terrorist ties". I have a friend who worked for someone who is the son of a former prominent member of the IRA. Do I have terrorist ties? How about my friend, or his boss? What about the wife of said former IRA member? Since nothing has ever been proven in a court of law, does this alleged former IRA member have terrorist ties in your proposed law?

Current Canadian law does not allow for Canada to relinquish her responsibility to uphold a citizen's rights, even if they are not in Canada at that time. Would you honestly wish to change this? In so doing, it would allow Canada to refuse to allow citizens to return home, to drain their bank accounts whenever they go on holidays, etc. I suspect that most people want their rights to be preserved, even when they temporarily leave the country.
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Re: $10 + Million a Piece

Post by Raven1 »

There's a lot wrong with current Canadian law. Many laws are DESIGNED that don't protect the average Canadian. The average Canadian doesn't have ties to terrorist sympathetic countries.


Now we're getting to the root of the problem. Bravo Verum.
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