GG takes on fake news

[Verum]

Ozone hole shrinking

The Canadian Press - Nov 3, 2017 / 6:32 am | Story: 210687

The ozone hole over Antarctica shrank to its smallest peak since 1988, NASA said Thursday.

The huge hole in Earth's protective ozone layer reached its maximum this year in September, and this year NASA said it was 7.6 million square miles wide (19.6 million square kilometres). The hole size shrinks after mid-September.

This year's maximum hole is more than twice as big as the United States, but it's 1.3 million square miles less than last year and 3.3 million square miles smaller than 2015.

Paul Newman, chief Earth scientist at NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center, said stormy conditions in the upper atmosphere warmed the air and kept chemicals chlorine and bromine from eating ozone. He said scientists haven't quite figured out why some years are stormier — and have smaller ozone holes — than others.

Newman said this year's drop is mostly natural but is on top of a trend of smaller steady improvements likely from the banning of ozone-eating chemicals in a 1987 international treaty. The ozone hole hit its highest in 2000 at 11.5 million square miles (29.86 million square kilometres).

Ozone is a colorless combination of three oxygen atoms. High in the atmosphere, about 7 to 25 miles (11 to 40 kilometres) above the Earth, ozone shields Earth from ultraviolet rays that cause skin cancer, crop damage and other problems

https://www.castanet.net/news/World/210 ... -shrinking

It's great to see that when we put our minds to it, we can make a difference. Now we have tackled the relatively easy task of CFCs and as a result the Ozone Layer is repairing, it is time to tackle the much harder problem of greenhouse gasses and man-made climate change. Hopefully our Governor General is an indication of a move away from the science-denial that is so prevalent and the acceptance that we need to heed the science and do something about man-made climate change before it is too late. Unfortunately, if this thread and forum is anything to go by, we are a long way off and still living in a world of rampant science-denial.

[Rider59]

You do understand a scientific conference is not a church right? Right?

When it comes to flogging the AGW myth, it most certainly is a religious church. Blinded by the Light?

[JLives]

When it comes to flogging the AGW myth, it most certainly is a religious church. Blinded by the Light?

Wrong. It is solid science backed by evidence as understood by a planet full of climate scientists. It is real. It is happening and we need to shut this anti intellectual crap down now so we don't fall down the same hole our southern neighbours are. Be smarter.

[Rider59]

When it comes to flogging the AGW myth, it most certainly is a religious church. Blinded by the Light?

Wrong. It is solid science backed by evidence as understood by a planet full of climate scientists. It is real. It is happening and we need to shut this anti intellectual crap down now so we don't fall down the same hole our southern neighbours are. Be smarter.

Wrong. It's a theory based on incomplete observations, conjuncture and full on speculation backed up by flawed models and reinforced by a religious like fever as shown by the mob mentality.

[Gone_Fishin]

Wrong. It is solid science backed by evidence as understood by a planet full of climate scientists. It is real. It is happening and we need to shut this anti intellectual crap down now so we don't fall down the same hole our southern neighbours are. Be smarter.

You can keep proclaiming that you saw a 10,000 kg beaver, but that doesn't mean you did. The left's constant use of fallacy as though it were fact just doesn't fly. People aren't as stupid as the left thinks, and their moral indignation actually shows just how stupid the left is in its misjudgment of the rest of society.

[JLives]

You can keep proclaiming that you saw a 10,000 kg beaver, but that doesn't mean you did. The left's constant use of fallacy as though it were fact just doesn't fly. People aren't as stupid as the left thinks, and their moral indignation actually shows just how stupid the left is in its misjudgment of the rest of society.

That would be because it was a lie. So I wouldn't do that.

Climate change is real and occuring whether or not you understand or believe in it. Your opinion is irrelevant. It is the facts and evidence that matter and the conclusion from that is human activity is causing climate change. Another report coming out of Trump's America came to that same conclusion just yesterday. You're smarter than this, stop feigning ignorance of this issue. This isn't about politics.

[Verum]

Wrong. It is solid science backed by evidence as understood by a planet full of climate scientists. It is real. It is happening and we need to shut this anti intellectual crap down now so we don't fall down the same hole our southern neighbours are. Be smarter.

Wrong. It's a theory based on incomplete observations, conjuncture and full on speculation backed up by flawed models and reinforced by a religious like fever as shown by the mob mentality.

These two statements in bold are not inconsistent. All science is theory. All science is based on incomplete observations. All science is conjecture. All science is speculation backed up by flawed models. And all science is wrong. Anyone who doesn't get this and still understand that science is both very useful and the best kind of wrong we have, doesn't get science. At all.

That the Earth is spherical is "a theory based on incomplete observations, conjuncture and full on speculation backed up by flawed models". Same with gravity, evolution, special theory of relativity, etc. But that doesn't mean that we can't use these theories and make useful predictions, nor gather no understanding from them.

It is incredible hubris to believe that you are more correct than the vast majority of qualified and credible climate change scientists, who agree that man made climate change is both real and a serious threat.

At the end of the day, science is and always will be wrong, but it is the best kind of wrong we have.

[Verum]

You can keep proclaiming that you saw a 10,000 kg beaver, but that doesn't mean you did. The left's constant use of fallacy as though it were fact just doesn't fly. People aren't as stupid as the left thinks, and their moral indignation actually shows just how stupid the left is in its misjudgment of the rest of society.

Why are you making this a political issue? Man made climate change is not political, any more than evolution or the benefit of vaccines. Science is not political. If science disagrees with your political views, it is almost certain that your political views are wrong, not the science.

[Urbane]

The role of the Governor General isn't a political one. She shouldn't be taking sides in controversial issues of the day. She shouldn't belittle those with strong religious beliefs either. For example, I don't personally believe in the Grizzly Bear Spirit but there are some indigenous people who do and the Governor General should respect their beliefs.

[Verum]

The role of the Governor General isn't a political one. She shouldn't be taking sides in controversial issues of the day. She shouldn't belittle those with strong religious beliefs either. For example, I don't personally believe in the Grizzly Bear Spirit but there are some indigenous people who do and the Governor General should respect their beliefs.

Her decisions shouldn't be politically biased, but she is perfectly entitled to her own opinion and to express it, in so far as it does not prevent her doing her job. I see no way that expressing these opinions will prevent her from doing her job. Also, there is essentially no controversy around these issues in the scientific community, and politics doesn't get to determine which science is correct and which is not, so there really is no sensible controversy around these science issues at all.

[Urbane]

Her decisions shouldn't be politically biased, but she is perfectly entitled to her own opinion and to express it, in so far as it does not prevent her doing her job. I see no way that expressing these opinions will prevent her from doing her job. Also, there is essentially no controversy around these issues in the scientific community, and politics doesn't get to determine which science is correct and which is not, so there really is no sensible controversy around these science issues at all.

Rex Murphy said it well:

On a lesser point, it truly is unbecoming for the Governor General, appointed by a furiously environmentalist prime minister, who has made “climate change, global warming” the central pillar of his government, to be opining with such certitude and aggressiveness on that precise issue. Policy is for the elected, not the selected. And however much she holds strong opinions on the subject as Julie Payette the individual, it is not in her brief as our Governor General to advocate her personal views under the stamp of Her Majesty’s office.

[JLives]

The role of the Governor General isn't a political one. She shouldn't be taking sides in controversial issues of the day. She shouldn't belittle those with strong religious beliefs either. For example, I don't personally believe in the Grizzly Bear Spirit but there are some indigenous people who do and the Governor General should respect their beliefs.

Nah. We don't need to downplay facts in case it offends someone's belief system. Enough of treating the belief in myths with kid gloves. That does not benefit our society at all. It's OK to promote facts as being true. We need more promotion of science and intellectualism in our society. Smart is sexy.

[Rider59]

These two statements in bold are not inconsistent. All science is theory. All science is based on incomplete observations. All science is conjecture. All science is speculation backed up by flawed models. And all science is wrong. Anyone who doesn't get this and still understand that science is both very useful and the best kind of wrong we have, doesn't get science. At all.

That the Earth is spherical is "a theory based on incomplete observations, conjuncture and full on speculation backed up by flawed models". Same with gravity, evolution, special theory of relativity, etc. But that doesn't mean that we can't use these theories and make useful predictions, nor gather no understanding from them.

It is incredible hubris to believe that you are more correct than the vast majority of qualified and credible climate change scientists, who agree that man made climate change is both real and a serious threat.

At the end of the day, science is and always will be wrong, but it is the best kind of wrong we have.

No wonder you guys buy this koolaid. Scientific fact is based on predictability, accurate observations, repeat-ability and correct analysis. That the earth is generally spherical is a fact. Gravity...fact.

Now theories are a very different animal, ie not proven completely... relativity, evolution (but is widely regarded as fact now), AGW, etc. Get the picture?

BTW, Science is never wrong, just our (your??) understanding of it.

[Urbane]

Nah. We don't need to downplay facts in case it offends someone's belief system. Enough of treating the belief in myths with kid gloves. That does not benefit our society at all. It's OK to promote facts as being true. We need more promotion of science and intellectualism in our society. Smart is sexy.

Except that what's "fact" to you, when it comes to issues like climate change, might not be "fact" to someone else. It might not even by "fact" to a number of scientists. But the issue here isn't about climate change. It's about whether or not the governor general should be taking sides in controversial issues of the day.

Not controversial you say because we should just all accept issues like climate change and evolution as factual. Perhaps they are but there are many people who believe otherwise. It's not about "offending" people; it's about having respect for the views of others. I've noticed lately that diversity is a one way street. You and the governor general should give that some thought.

[Verum]

No wonder you guys buy this koolaid. Scientific fact is based on predictability, accurate observations, repeat-ability and correct analysis. That the earth is generally spherical is a fact. Gravity...fact.

Now theories are a very different animal, ie not proven completely... relativity, evolution (but is widely regarded as fact now), AGW, etc. Get the picture?

BTW, Science is never wrong, just our (your??) understanding of it.

Here's some Grade 8 science for you:
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/earth-is-not-round/
The Earth is not spherical and while we often approximate it with a sphere, we cannot, with complete certainty prove that it is even this. In fact, we cannot prove that the Earth even exists in physical space. Science, with 2 exceptions, mathematics and computer science, doesn't deal in proofs or absolute certainties at all, largely because it can't and every half-decent scientist knows this.