Morneau sold 680,000 shares before tax announcement?

Re: Morneau sold 680,000 shares before tax announcement?

Postby Ka-El » Dec 1st, 2017, 4:44 pm

hobbyguy wrote: The smarmy little twerp is just playing schoolyard games.

I'm wondering if the Conservative attack strategy is going to be as effective in this next election as it was last election.
While the research shows that people with right-wing views tend to be less intelligent than those with left-wing views,
the continued excuse-making and support for Donald Trump indicates researchers have underestimated by how much.

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Re: Morneau sold 680,000 shares before tax announcement?

Postby Jflem1983 » Dec 1st, 2017, 5:49 pm

Ka-El wrote:
hobbyguy wrote: The smarmy little twerp is just playing schoolyard games.

I'm wondering if the Conservative attack strategy is going to be as effective in this next election as it was last election.



Cons picked the wrong leader. Dont get me wrong. Ill vote for him. Only cuz there is no other choice really.

I think most conservative voters would be happier if it had been a bigger name .

As hobby noted. He is a career politic. So u can lump him in with ambulance chasing lawyers and the like.

Trudeau is doing fairly well at polarizing the country either for or against him. West of ontario up to the fringes of the coast he is not that liked. He is however very popular in metro areas.

He still holds enough of the big cities to be competitive . Now jagmeet signh offers trouble on the left for trudeau so i feel like that is scheers best hope. .

Now all that being rambled on about. I give scheer like a 35 percent chance of winning to trudeaus 50 ans singh 15
Now they want to take our guns away . That would be just fine. Take em away from the criminals first . Ill gladly give u mine. "Charlie Daniels"

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Re: Morneau sold 680,000 shares before tax announcement?

Postby hobbyguy » Dec 2nd, 2017, 12:13 am

OldIslander wrote:
bob vernon wrote:My God, some of you people are so pathetic. The tax changes were announced in the Speech from the Throne. They were again announced, with details, when the Bill was put on the Order Paper. Everybody knew about the tax changes long before Mourneau's announcement in the House.


There are a great many things announced or not announced in the Throne Speech, that ultimately happen or may not happen. The Throne Speech is politics and therefore doesn't mean much, until it actually happens. Same with the 'Order Paper' -- it's just a list of things the Goverment plans to consider during its term. Any similarity to what's said in a Throne Speech and placed on the 'Order Paper', versus what actually happens over the next few years is strictly coincidental.

Therefore, the proposed tax change wasn't meaningful, until the Finance Minister rose in the House, and announced that the process for its implantation was begun. And only insiders knew when that was going to happen.

bob vernon wrote:Polievre can claim that there was "insider trading", but he doesn't have the guts to say those words outside the Commons.


As explained by another poster, he did insinuate out in an unprotected corridor, that he 'smelled a rat', and invited Maurneau to answer his questions. Maurneau did not follow through on his ill-advised threat of a libel lawsuit, instead choosing to ignore him -- thus making himself appear even more guilty, if that was possible.

Maybe he is not guilty, but the timing of the trades was terrible. As insider trading is a felony, wouldn't be surprised if the RCMP are looking into the matter -- phone calls, etc. You'll recall that it was timing of phone calls that cost a certain former premier and well known resident of Kelowna, a few million in fines and legal fees, when he was convicted of insider trading. :200:


Like I pointed out before, Morneau and his family are just doing EXACTLY what the Conservatives and NDP asked him to do, he and his family are just selling their shares as they requested.

It is ENTIRELY disingenuous of that little twerp Skippy Poilievre and the grinning fool Sheer to be throwing out innuendos and false allegations. They are definitely showing themselves to just be hypocritical peanut chuckers, and yes, their best hope is the NDP, the BC NDP where they would fit right in with George Heyman and Lana Popham.
We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both. - Louis D. Brandeis

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Re: Morneau sold 680,000 shares before tax announcement?

Postby Hassel99 » Dec 2nd, 2017, 12:17 am

I really dislike Morneau and think he should resign,


But not for this, this is nothing.

Scheer (sigh) is a mistake....

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Re: Morneau sold 680,000 shares before tax announcement?

Postby Omnitheo » Dec 2nd, 2017, 10:41 am

HG, this thread is actually about something that happened in 2015. It’s only coming up now, because the right wing is trying to twist a series of events (that they asked for) against Morneau.

So a tax change was planned for the final weeks of 2015. From GF’s own linked article
“Those rates were to take effect on Jan. 1, 2016, prompting financial advisers to advise high-income earners to realize capital gains in the last weeks of 2015 to avoid the coming higher tax rates.”

In other words, it was public knowledge, and people with those shares were advised to sell them off. Taking sound financial advice is the logical intelligent thing to do...if he hadn’t sold these shares they’d probably be criticizing him for being bad with his personal finances lol.

This, Queenie and others, is precicely why it is not insider trading. Public knowledge, and logical action at the behest of financial advisers. Anyone on the forums here who owned shares would have done the same. And at the time in 2015, nobody had any problem with this. Furthermore because all profits that came from this went directly to charity.

In the years since this happened however, as Morneau has been tied up in controversy, he has attempted to distance himself from it, and one of the ways of doing that, was in answering the calls of the Conservative party and the public in selling off his remaining shares. So he did just that.

Now in what should have been good news. Morneau sells shares to avoid potential conflicts of interest. The right wing attempts to twist the story, by digging up a fake controversy from 2015, suggesting that selling shares was somehow some shady activity.

As Ken7 said earlier, in a demonstration of the Dunning-Kruger effect, “Having knowledge on a topic one comments on is always a good thing.”
"The Charter of Rights and Freedoms protects all Canadians, every one of us, even when it is uncomfortable."
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Re: Morneau sold 680,000 shares before tax announcement?

Postby JLives » Dec 2nd, 2017, 10:51 am

Jflem1983 wrote:Cons picked the wrong leader. Dont get me wrong. Ill vote for him. Only cuz there is no other choice really.

I think most conservative voters would be happier if it had been a bigger name .

As hobby noted. He is a career politic. So u can lump him in with ambulance chasing lawyers and the like.

Trudeau is doing fairly well at polarizing the country either for or against him. West of ontario up to the fringes of the coast he is not that liked. He is however very popular in metro areas.

He still holds enough of the big cities to be competitive . Now jagmeet signh offers trouble on the left for trudeau so i feel like that is scheers best hope. .

Now all that being rambled on about. I give scheer like a 35 percent chance of winning to trudeaus 50 ans singh 15


Trudeau isn't dividing the country. You and your ilk are. He has been receptive to working with everyone in government. He is far from a divider. Do you really want what's going down in the US to happen here? Because that's what it sounds like. Trudeau is liked in the West. Just not by you and you don't speak for all of us. I'll speak for myself thanks.
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Re: Morneau sold 680,000 shares before tax announcement?

Postby hobbyguy » Dec 2nd, 2017, 10:55 am

Morneau does have the "silver spoon" stigma, but he also has real business experience, an appropriate education (MBA).

Competency matters. http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/canada-economy-gdp-1.4427974

I get why the Conservatives are going after Morneau. The economic and taxation strategy of the Liberals appears to have passed the first test, which is to do no harm, and may be getting close to passing the second test, is it making things better for average folks? Stronger wage growth and low unemployment seems a good indicator.

I get that Morneau isn't as "slick" a politician as his opposite on the Conservative bench, Skippy Poilievre. But really, do you want someone who does a good job, or someone like Skippy who talks a good game, is really good at being a smarmy weasel, but has a record of being incompetent?

So what we are seeing is a Conservative "leader" in Sheer that has little to offer, and is really easy to attack, backed up by a useless smarmy weasel that only have one trick, and that is to chuck peanuts and fling manure.

The NDP can do no better, their finance critic is an ex journalist and union leader, with a degree in political "science".

So ya, the political "scientists" hacks from the Conservatives and NDP will go after Morneau's weakness, which is the "silver spoon" stigma. Never mind that what they doing has no substance, and never mind that between them they have the real world competency of a box of gingerbread cookies.

A competent minister is much better than a "slick" pol or a likable incompetent.

The Conservatives have reached a sad position when the best they can offer as potential candidates to lead the country are a couple hacks and weasels like Sheer and Poilievre. No substance, just peanut chuckers like the BC NDP.
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Re: Morneau sold 680,000 shares before tax announcement?

Postby JagXKR » Dec 5th, 2017, 12:09 pm

Omnitheo wrote:So a tax change was planned for the final weeks of 2015. From GF’s own linked article
“Those rates were to take effect on Jan. 1, 2016, prompting financial advisers to advise high-income earners to realize capital gains in the last weeks of 2015 to avoid the coming higher tax rates.”
I


But Morneau was the one who implemented the tax change. So selling of the shares was a fait accompli due to his decision to change the taxes. Why is this not the fox guarding the hen house? Could he have not planned to sell the shares anyways and used the tax changes to justify his sale? Something seems rotten in Ottawa.
Why use a big word when a diminutive one will suffice.

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Re: Morneau sold 680,000 shares before tax announcement?

Postby Rwede » Dec 5th, 2017, 12:25 pm

JLives wrote:Trudeau isn't dividing the country. You and your ilk are. He has been receptive to working with everyone in government. He is far from a divider. Do you really want what's going down in the US to happen here? Because that's what it sounds like. Trudeau is liked in the West. Just not by you and you don't speak for all of us. I'll speak for myself thanks.


Trudeau is following Obama's example to become the most divisive leader in the history of the country.

Never before have we witnessed the vitriol and hate between factions in Canada as we've experienced in the past 2 years.

It's deplorable and despicable that Trudeau is using division to keep control of people. A united country would NEVER stand for a government that lies and betrays them on so many issues.

In many countries of the world, actions like Trudeau's election lies and Morneau's malfeasance would cause storming of and overthrow of parliament.
"I don't even disagree with the bulk of what's in the Leap Manifesto. I'll put forward my Leap Manifesto in the next election." - John Horgan, 2017.

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Re: Morneau sold 680,000 shares before tax announcement?

Postby hobbyguy » Dec 5th, 2017, 8:58 pm

Rwede, actually he isn't.

JT himself is perhaps a bit of lightweight, but he seems to be able to keep his grounding for now. He has been smart enough to surround himself with some very competent people, and to be honest, it appears that he views his role as "chief flack absorber" and in that way allowing a competent cabinet to get on with things. Things that matter to ordinary Canadians.

The recent changes that bubbled out of Jane Philpott's tenure as health minister don't get much credit or notice, but they are estimated to save Canadians $13.5 billion on prescription drugs over the next 10 years. The report that contained the suggestions that pointed in that direction is the Naylor report, commissioned by Rona Ambrose - but not really acted upon by the Conservative government (preoccupied with the upcoming election I guess). To the Liberals credit they did not take a partisan and divisive view of Rona Ambrose's work, and some of it has now been implemented. Hard to see something like that as divisive.

CETA is another example. Started by the Conservatives and then tweaked a little and brought across the finish line by the Liberals (Chrystia Freeland). That does not seem very divisive.

Harper's chosen choice for BOC governor seems quite happy with the work that Morneau and the Liberals have done. That doesn't seem very divisive either.

The Liberals have tried to support Alberta and the needs of Albertans by approving pipelines. It is hardly their fault, nor the Alberta NDP's, that the BC NDP usurped power in BC and are embarked on an unconstitutional windmill tilt at Canadian interests and unity. Nobody can negotiate with nutbars like Heyman and the likes of looney tunes Lana Popham - they don't care about the Canadian constitution and Canadian unity, just their orange tinfoil hat "transmissions".

Yes, there are controversial subjects that the Liberals are wading into, such as the legalization of Marijuana. I would venture to say that a few years from now, that will simply be one of those things that we look back on and say, "what was all the fuss about?"

Yes, thanks to Trump, the Liberals are knee deep in NAFTA and a Softwood Lumber mess (what is that? Round 156 or something...). No matter what happens there, there will be room for the critics to jump in - but is that criticism going to be real given the Trump dynamic?

There are divisions within Canada. Many have been their for a long time. It is hard to say that this government is making them worse, and many ways they are bringing some groups (not all) closer together.

Picking on Morneau over this issue was low hanging fruit without any substance. That is, in fact, part of what is wrong with our politics today. Our politics is dominated by those who can not do, so they take basket weaving 101 (political "science" [that's an oxymoron]) and become permanent political hacks. We deserve better, and regardless of party, we should not put with hacks who have nothing to contribute and just chuck peanuts. (Which is why I don't like the BC NDP).
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Re: Morneau sold 680,000 shares before tax announcement?

Postby Omnitheo » Dec 6th, 2017, 1:43 pm

This divisiveness claim is sheer fabricated BS. What’s so divisive? Marijuana? Something that polls show Canadians universally agree with legalizing? Is it apologies? Is apologizing for mistreatment of Canadian citizens by the government somehow divisive?

The only thing divisive about Trudeau is people like you, gone_fishing, the rebel etc which try to stir up crap at every opportunity. Digging up non-stories from 2 years ago to try and discredit the recent actions of a finance minister that your own party called for.

You saying that never before has Canada seen this level of divisiveness is basically you admitting that you have zero knowledge of Canadian history, and have a massive cognition biased blind spot over the years Harper was PM.
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Re: Morneau sold 680,000 shares before tax announcement?

Postby Jflem1983 » Dec 6th, 2017, 2:41 pm

Omnitheo wrote:This divisiveness claim is sheer fabricated BS. What’s so divisive? Marijuana? Something that polls show Canadians universally agree with legalizing? Is it apologies? Is apologizing for mistreatment of Canadian citizens by the government somehow divisive?

The only thing divisive about Trudeau is people like you, gone_fishing, the rebel etc which try to stir up crap at every opportunity. Digging up non-stories from 2 years ago to try and discredit the recent actions of a finance minister that your own party called for.

You saying that never before has Canada seen this level of divisiveness is basically you admitting that you have zero knowledge of Canadian history, and have a massive cognition biased blind spot over the years Harper was PM.



Ya that bad harper. Had our dollar at 1.10. He was such a bad guy. Every one was working. Oil was high. Ya bad harper.

What was so tuff about that
Now they want to take our guns away . That would be just fine. Take em away from the criminals first . Ill gladly give u mine. "Charlie Daniels"

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Re: Morneau sold 680,000 shares before tax announcement?

Postby Gone_Fishin » Dec 7th, 2017, 7:33 am

Jflem1983 wrote:Ya that bad harper. Had our dollar at 1.10. He was such a bad guy. Every one was working. Oil was high. Ya bad harper.

What was so tuff about that


People had low taxes, low unemployment, most solid economy in the G7, a balanced budget, and Canada was ranked #1 in the world by the Reputation Institute. But Harper didn't have dreamy hair, so it was time for a change.

Back to the topic, I've heard that the Ontario Securities Exchange Commission is launching a review of Bill Sr and Bill Jr's well-timed share selloff ahead of Jr's announcement. Don't have a link yet, but talk at a networking event yesterday indicated it was in the works. Will that be enough for Justin to turf Jr? I doubt it, because he's too stupid to do the right thing.
Hey Horgan, orange and green mixed together make brown, and that's the colour of crap!

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Re: Morneau sold 680,000 shares before tax announcement?

Postby d0nb » Dec 8th, 2017, 1:39 pm

hobbyguy wrote:
d0nb wrote:Considering the dearth of talent le Trudeux has on the bench, his desire to cut Morneau slack is understandable. Heaven knows, there are far worse options in his caucus he could have tasked with spending Canada into poverty.


Actually that is just a partisan "all hat and no cattle" statement. When one considers that the nest the Conservatives come up with for a shadow minister of finance is Skippy Poilievre, who is neither qualified, nor anything but the shadiest and worst sort of politicians.


Skippy can be a bit acerbic, but he is rather far from being "the shadiest and worst sort of politicians." He isn't even a Liberal. :biggrin:

We are speaking here of Skippy, who barely squeaked out a BA. Skippy who is under a Compliance Agreement with Elections Canada for cheating. Skippy of the infamous "Fair" Elections Act garbage. Skippy of the "tar baby" comments. Skippy of the stupid comments about aboriginal folks that he had to formally apologize for.


He did get in trouble with Elections Canada for announcing increased child benefit payments while wearing a blue shirt with a Conservative logo, but that isn't exactly a capital offense.

As for the "infamous" Elections Act, it is hardly unreasonable or unfair to insist that voters present proper identification before being allowed to cast a ballot. "Vouching" invites abuse and Poilievre should have no regrets about trying to assure the integrity of our electoral system.

The pathetic Liberal attempt to smear Poilievre with the nonsensically offensive suggestion that he was using 'tar baby' as a racial slur was (almost) beneath even their notoriously low standards. And since when is it inappropriate to ask whether the money spent on aboriginals has made them less willing and able to function as free-thinking independent individuals? They're just people, not demigods.

Skippy is hardly a person with the qualifications, experience or temperament to be a finance minister is the best that the Conservatives can offer? Really? Or is Sheer's judgement in picking people really that bad? Seems so.


Since getting under the paper-thin skin of pompous Liberals is no small part of the job of a Con opposition shadow cabinet minister, the choice of Poilievre seems to have worked rather well. Plus, Pierre must be doing something right when leftist shills like Rick Mercer devote so much (hot) air time and public money to attacking him.

The only thing Skippy is any good at is chucking peanuts and cheating in elections. Seems Sheer is fine with that, I guess he had to pick someone he could look better than - so had to go for a very, very low brow selection for shadow finance minister.


A person as privileged as Morneau may not enjoy being used as a punching bag by a comparative lightweight, (or serving under one) but he has no one but himself to blame. He should drop the schoolyard silliness about 'taking it outside' (a taunt Poilievre was happy to accommodate) and admit that his failure to transfer his assets into a blind trust was inexcusably inept, especially for a finance minister.
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Re: Morneau sold 680,000 shares before tax announcement?

Postby hobbyguy » Dec 9th, 2017, 1:22 am

I agree that not going for a blind trust in the first place was politically naive.

It is very hard for me to see any redeeming value in politicians that set out to have a career in politics. That includes union hacks, because they are just another form of politics.

In most cases they are folks who can't do. Whether it is the hard work of union labor on a shop floor, or running a business, or designing things, or repairing things, they don't seem to have any real world skills, and are only intent on developing sharp elbows and the ability to back stab. They have no connection to the real world.

That, I'm afraid, describes Skippy to a T, and many other supposed "leaders" among our politicians. Really competent people, like David Emerson, get chewed up in the games of back stabbing and elbow jabbing, while the know nothing can;t do's dominate our politics.

That's why I find it refreshing when I see people like Jane Philpott, Chrystia Freelund, and even Bill Morneau step up to try to serve the country. None of them "need" to be politicians.

Skippy, Sheer, Horgan, and a lot of others only have their political "science" to sustain them. What real expertise and experience do they bring? And what is their real goal? To get re-elected. That's pretty shallow.
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