Albertas shift to renewables

Albertas shift to renewables

Postby maryjane48 » Dec 10th, 2017, 5:54 pm

Likely to cost less than first thought

Alberta’s move to shift electricity production from coal plants to renewable energy will likely cost less than people expect, a specialist in the field says.

The province plans by 2030 to phase out coal generation, which provides about 40 per cent of Alberta’s power capacity, and replace it with renewables and natural gas.

Such a green shift proved expensive in Ontario, where the auditor general found last year consumers paid $37 billion more than necessary over eight years due to overpricing, poor planning and shoddy service.

As well, the cost of solar and wind technology is dropping significantly and interest rates are low.

“Alberta will look a lot different from Ontario … I think people will be quite surprised at how cheap it will be.”

He doesn’t know what consumers will pay for power in future, but doubts it will be as steep as critics fear.

“I think the naysayers may be proven wrong.”

https://www.google.ca/amp/edmontonjourn ... t-says/amp

Yabadabadoo lol
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Re: Albertas shift to renewables

Postby alanjh595 » Dec 10th, 2017, 6:51 pm

Yup, get back to us with the results in 2030.........13 years from now.
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Re: Albertas shift to renewables

Postby seewood » Dec 10th, 2017, 8:10 pm

Don't believe they will be phasing out coal/nat. gas anytime soon. That power production will be required to generate electricity when the wind does not blow or sun don't shine, especially during peak electrical demand periods.
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Re: Albertas shift to renewables

Postby JagXKR » Dec 10th, 2017, 9:06 pm

maryjane48 wrote:
Such a green shift proved expensive in Ontario, where the auditor general found last year consumers paid $37 billion more than necessary over eight years due to overpricing, poor planning and shoddy service.



But you have not stated this. Changing your mind?
$37 Billion is a lot of Site C's.
Why use a big word when a diminutive one will suffice.

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Re: Albertas shift to renewables

Postby Dizzy1 » Dec 10th, 2017, 9:08 pm

maryjane48 wrote:Likely to cost less than first thought

Alberta’s move to shift electricity production from coal plants to renewable energy will likely cost less than people expect, a specialist in the field says.

The province plans by 2030 to phase out coal generation, which provides about 40 per cent of Alberta’s power capacity, and replace it with renewables and natural gas.

Such a green shift proved expensive in Ontario, where the auditor general found last year consumers paid $37 billion more than necessary over eight years due to overpricing, poor planning and shoddy service.

As well, the cost of solar and wind technology is dropping significantly and interest rates are low.

“Alberta will look a lot different from Ontario … I think people will be quite surprised at how cheap it will be.”

He doesn’t know what consumers will pay for power in future, but doubts it will be as steep as critics fear.

“I think the naysayers may be proven wrong.”

https://www.google.ca/amp/edmontonjourn ... t-says/amp

Yabadabadoo lol

There's an awful lot of "may's", "could's", "likely's", "doesn't know's" in that article ... just sayin'
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Re: Albertas shift to renewables

Postby Smurf » Dec 10th, 2017, 9:20 pm

maryjane48 wrote:

Likely to cost less than first thought

Alberta’s move to shift electricity production from coal plants to renewable energy will likely cost less than people expect, a specialist in the field says.

The province plans by 2030 to phase out coal generation, which provides about 40 per cent of Alberta’s power capacity, and replace it with renewables and natural gas.

Such a green shift proved expensive in Ontario, where the auditor general found last year consumers paid $37 billion more than necessary over eight years due to overpricing, poor planning and shoddy service.

As well, the cost of solar and wind technology is dropping significantly and interest rates are low.

“Alberta will look a lot different from Ontario … I think people will be quite surprised at how cheap it will be.”

He doesn’t know what consumers will pay for power in future, but doubts it will be as steep as critics fear.

“I think the naysayers may be proven wrong.”

https://www.google.ca/amp/edmontonjourn ... t-says/amp

Yabadabadoo lol



A personal opinion and he is not very sure of what he is saying. I certainly would not get excited about what he is saying. I would say it might not be as bad as Ontario but I'll bet it won't be anything great and probably more expensive than they have now, with a lot of problems.
Consider how hard it is to change yourself and you'll understand what little chance you have of changing others.

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Re: Albertas shift to renewables

Postby CapitalB » Dec 11th, 2017, 10:50 am

seewood wrote:Don't believe they will be phasing out coal/nat. gas anytime soon. That power production will be required to generate electricity when the wind does not blow or sun don't shine, especially during peak electrical demand periods.


Have you ever heard of... batteries? My understanding that a major component of renewable energy is storing it for later.
So much of the violent push-back on everything progressive and reformist comes down to: I can see the future, and in this future I am not the centre of the universe and master of all that I survey, therefore this future must be resisted at all costs.
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Re: Albertas shift to renewables

Postby Jflem1983 » Dec 11th, 2017, 11:07 am

MrBrocksEgo wrote:
seewood wrote:Don't believe they will be phasing out coal/nat. gas anytime soon. That power production will be required to generate electricity when the wind does not blow or sun don't shine, especially during peak electrical demand periods.


Have you ever heard of... batteries? My understanding that a major component of renewable energy is storing it for later.



Batteries tend to fail when it gets cold.
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Re: Albertas shift to renewables

Postby CapitalB » Dec 11th, 2017, 11:29 am

Jflem1983 wrote:
MrBrocksEgo wrote:
Have you ever heard of... batteries? My understanding that a major component of renewable energy is storing it for later.



Batteries tend to fail when it gets cold.


Modern batteries are 'functional' to -40 Celsius though they do lose a significant amount of efficiency, if they were stored in an underground structure that used geothermal heating they could probably be kept at the optimal 0-20 Celsius without much power loss. Underground because the under earth temperatures are much more stable than above ground and geothermal heating because its a basically free source of heat thats perfect if you only need to keep things above 0.
So much of the violent push-back on everything progressive and reformist comes down to: I can see the future, and in this future I am not the centre of the universe and master of all that I survey, therefore this future must be resisted at all costs.

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Re: Albertas shift to renewables

Postby The Green Barbarian » Dec 11th, 2017, 12:14 pm

maryjane48 wrote:
Such a green shift proved expensive in Ontario, where the auditor general found last year consumers paid $37 billion more than necessary over eight years due to overpricing, poor planning and shoddy service.
l


"Expensive". No. "Disastrous". "Stupid". "Completely avoidable". All words that should be used instead when referring to the boneheads in Ontario.
Not all leftists are stupid, but most stupid people are leftists.
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Re: Albertas shift to renewables

Postby hobbyguy » Dec 11th, 2017, 12:56 pm

I have been doing a little research into the Alberta government plans. They are making the same mistakes we saw in Ontario, and Germany, and Australia - but to a lesser extent.

The number 1 mistake is guaranteed FITs (Feed In Tariffs). Wind and solar outfits will be guaranteed a "price" that makes them money for 20 years for whatever power they produce, whenever they produce it (whether it is needed at that time or not - could be wind power produced at 3:30 am). The number 2 mistake is Net Metering for solar. Both just amount to massive subsidies.

However, the targets for Alberta are a bit different, their plan is to be 70% natural gas/30% wind/solar/hydro. From what I gather, the big complaint is that the way Alberta has structured their plan, big companies like Suncor will dominate. Yup, Suncor is already into it, and my guess is that Suncor ain't doin' it outa the goodness of their hearts! There's money to made off those subsidies.

There is also some provision for a "capacity tariff" type payment to producers who can provide peak demand power. That will guarantee say, a gas power plant operator, $$$ for sitting idle but ready to come on line if the wind drops or a blizzard wipes out solar etc.

One of the big players is looking at building a multi-billion $ pumped hydro facility to take advantage of the complex mix of subsidies and openings that will be created in the market. Yup, they are going to build dams/dykes, flood land, and produce hydroelectricity as part of "capacity tariff".

The Alberta NDP have couched all of this subsidy regime in fancy language and do the equivalent of instead of calling "oranges" oranges, they call them "Citrus Sinensis" so it appears to be something else. But it amounts to the same type of costly subsidy scheme that has failed Australia, California, and Ontario and is costing consumers a fortune and creating energy poverty.

I fail to understand why left leaning governments just can't seem to understand that there is great value in the KISS principle. Want to get rid of coal fired power plants? Just set out a coal specific carbon tax that ramps up over 20 years to the point where coal fired plants are totally uneconomic. The markets will sort the rest, and I guarantee you that while electricity price increases would happen as a result, there wouldn't be a lot of wind and solar in the mix.
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Re: Albertas shift to renewables

Postby seewood » Dec 11th, 2017, 1:15 pm

MrBrocksEgo wrote:
seewood wrote:Don't believe they will be phasing out coal/nat. gas anytime soon. That power production will be required to generate electricity when the wind does not blow or sun don't shine, especially during peak electrical demand periods.


Have you ever heard of... batteries? My understanding that a major component of renewable energy is storing it for later.


Yeup, I use batteries in ear protection to listen to CBC during the day. How about instead of spending huge sums on batteries that have both front and back environmental issues, just store power in the form of water behind a dam.

Putting batteries underground??? with geo-thermal heating... just priced yourself out of the market. Kinbasket Lake behind WAC dam, produces power when there is 4 feet of ice on the lake and loaded logging trucks travel up and down the lake on the said ice roads.
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Re: Albertas shift to renewables

Postby CapitalB » Dec 11th, 2017, 2:25 pm

seewood wrote:
MrBrocksEgo wrote:
Have you ever heard of... batteries? My understanding that a major component of renewable energy is storing it for later.


Yeup, I use batteries in ear protection to listen to CBC during the day. How about instead of spending huge sums on batteries that have both front and back environmental issues, just store power in the form of water behind a dam.

Putting batteries underground??? with geo-thermal heating... just priced yourself out of the market. Kinbasket Lake behind WAC dam, produces power when there is 4 feet of ice on the lake and loaded logging trucks travel up and down the lake on the said ice roads.


Out of which market? Also I believe the conversation here is about albertas renewable power adventure. While they do have some mountains and lakes I think their options for hydro electric damns are a bit less than over here in bc.
So much of the violent push-back on everything progressive and reformist comes down to: I can see the future, and in this future I am not the centre of the universe and master of all that I survey, therefore this future must be resisted at all costs.

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Re: Albertas shift to renewables

Postby maryjane48 » Dec 11th, 2017, 2:31 pm

Alberta wont be buying bc power .bc had the chance to lead the way but spineless horgan blew that .now alberta will lead the way under notley . :130:
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Re: Albertas shift to renewables

Postby hobbyguy » Dec 11th, 2017, 6:15 pm

maryjane48 wrote:Alberta wont be buying bc power .bc had the chance to lead the way but spineless horgan blew that .now alberta will lead the way under notley . :130:


[icon_lol2.gif] :biggrin: [icon_lol2.gif] :biggrin: [icon_lol2.gif]

Do you ever research and check facts?

Alberta already relies on BC for some of its peak demand power, and will do so even more if Notley loses, as I expect, then the windy solar nonsense will go away. You will see natural gas fired plants, and the UCP will go after the feds to help out with the BC-Alberta transmission link improvements (about a billion$ from the feds).

https://www.neb-one.gc.ca/nrg/ntgrtd/mrkt/ftrrtcl/12-01bchdrsstm-eng.html

Interesting thing about BC and the electricity grid, BC can import more that it sells, and still make money. Just shows you how dumb wind and solar are.
We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both. - Louis D. Brandeis

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