3.7 cents kwh

Re: 3.7 cents kwh

Postby maryjane48 » Dec 15th, 2017, 9:23 pm

Im not swallowing anything . Im also not. Backing any gay bashers,like mr kenney either .

Thats all anyone needs to know :smt045
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Re: 3.7 cents kwh

Postby hobbyguy » Dec 16th, 2017, 4:27 pm

maryjane48 wrote:Im not swallowing anything . Im also not. Backing any gay bashers,like mr kenney either .

Thats all anyone needs to know :smt045


Nope. You keep looking at it simplistically.

Electrical grids are akin to an ecosystem. Pull on a thread here, and something changes over there. You need to look at the whole system. Not just the shiny bauble the wind and solar snake oil salesmen hold up. That shiny bauble is just that, a shiny bauble, neato and all that stuff, but useless in the practical world of grid electrical supply.
We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both. - Louis D. Brandeis

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Re: 3.7 cents kwh

Postby Smurf » Dec 16th, 2017, 4:39 pm

Many people don't have a clue what they are talking about and do not want to learn. Hopefully they never get in a position to make a serious decision.


EDIT TO ADD:

That is another reason politicians should stay out of decisions like this and leave them to the experts who understand the whole picture.
Consider how hard it is to change yourself and you'll understand what little chance you have of changing others.

The happiest of people don't necessarily have the best of everything, they just make the most of everything that comes their way.

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Re: 3.7 cents kwh

Postby hobbyguy » Dec 17th, 2017, 12:42 pm

I have often referred to the "hidden subsidies" that support wind/solar and intermittent sources of electricity supply.

While Australia is trying to "make the case" that 2017's 11 percent overall jump in electricity prices will be offset by "more wind and solar" coming online in 2018, that seems to be just political spin as governments scramble to cover up the mess they have created. Even in stating that rose-colored forecast of a 2 year price drop (ya right!) the government agency warns of problems and predicts problems with wholesale prices. I fail to see how IF there are problems with wholesale prices, retail prices will come down - that just doesn't make any sense. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-12-18/household-electricity-looks-set-to-get-cheaper-from-mid-2018/9266914

"The report also found that over time, low wholesale prices contributed to the closure of coal-fired plants.

"Without investment in replacement dispatchable capacity, wholesale prices will go up again and remain volatile," Mr Pierce said.

"And the rollercoaster will be repeated."

The AEMC also warned of instability and blackouts if the new systems were not managed efficiently."

Yes, the Australian government is BEGGING coal fired power plants (dispatchable) to stay open - but with no success. The Australian governments have guaranteed first access to the electricity markets for wind and solar, and in the process destroyed the viability of most of their dispatchable generation sources, with coal and natural gas fired plants closing one after another. South Australia was even looking at buying a shut down natural gas fired plant to run at taxpayer expense as a back up.

Giving guaranteed access to markets for wind and solar is a massive subsidy. What? business can you open that has guaranteed markets? No salespeople required. No marketing required. No customers to sign up. Just "here, you build it, we will guarantee your sales of as much as you can produce whenever you can produce it". That is Soviet on steroids, as instead of profits generated going to the government, the profits (which would probably be non existent without the guarantees and subsidies) go to private individuals.

By the way, IF the somewhat fanciful price decrease of 12% does occur, Australian electricity would drop from $.35/kWh to a "cheaper" price of $.31/kWh. More than 3 times what we pay for hydroelectric or natural gas fired electricity - and that's NOT including the huge subsidies that taxpayers are forking out for wind and solar both directly and indirectly (which come out of the same household's pockets!).

What is becoming evident in Australia is that taxpayer subsidies of the electrical system are on the rise. Elements of DSM (demand side management) at taxpayer expense are now being used as a cover up for the failure of the "green" energy program to deliver reliable and affordable electricity: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-12-13/energy-regulator-trigger-to-shut-industry-prevent-blackouts/9255434

"South Australian metal foundry Intercast and Forge is an electricity hungry business, with a power bill of about $8 million a year.

It's a key part of AEMO's plan.

Today it was contacted by AEMO and asked if it was "ready and willing to turn off this afternoon".

Intercast and Forge could get as little as 10 minutes notice from the AEMO.

"The regulator will give us a call or a text message, they will ask us to turn off at least 10 megawatts of power," foundry general manager Brett Lawrence told 7.30.

"What will happen then, for our factory, is it will shut down for up to four hours.

"What that will mean for the rest of the grid is there's far less likely to have rolling blackouts through the grid."

The foundry will be paid about $350,000 to shut down.

It is one of eight companies taking part in a $36-million so-called demand response trial.

"It's really going to be a bag of tricks that enables the system to be far more secure," Mr Lawrence said."

$350,000 to shut down a plant for up to 4 hours! $36 million of Taxpayer money being used to pay companies and workers NOT to work. That's just in one state, and just part of $billions and $billions being forked out to cover up the mess that wind and solar have made of the Australian electrical supply system. More shades of "Soviet on steroids".

The Alberta "plan" follows this failed template. It uses different labels to disguise it, but it is functionally the same. At the moment, the impacts are, like a single tick on a moose, not going to be noticed much. But as the "plan" matures, like a severe infestation of ticks on a moose, the impact grows, and eventually weakens the system to become a staggering mess.
We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both. - Louis D. Brandeis

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