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Did the Conservatives pick a Dud?

Re: Did the Conservatives pick a Dud?

Postby hobbyguy » Jan 21st, 2018, 6:42 pm

^^ problem is the Conservatives weren't fiscally responsible. The last fiscally responsible government was the Martin Liberals - and they got trounced at the polls...
We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both. - Louis D. Brandeis

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Re: Did the Conservatives pick a Dud?

Postby Glacier » Jan 21st, 2018, 11:46 pm

hobbyguy wrote:^^ problem is the Conservatives weren't fiscally responsible. The last fiscally responsible government was the Martin Liberals - and they got trounced at the polls...

How do define fiscally responsible. Martin went on a huge spending spree relative to Chretien.
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Re: Did the Conservatives pick a Dud?

Postby hobbyguy » Jan 22nd, 2018, 5:29 pm

Glacier wrote:
hobbyguy wrote:^^ problem is the Conservatives weren't fiscally responsible. The last fiscally responsible government was the Martin Liberals - and they got trounced at the polls...

How do define fiscally responsible. Martin went on a huge spending spree relative to Chretien.


But still produced surplus budgets....
We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both. - Louis D. Brandeis

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Re: Did the Conservatives pick a Dud?

Postby Ka-El » Jan 22nd, 2018, 5:38 pm

hobbyguy wrote:
Glacier wrote: How do define fiscally responsible. Martin went on a huge spending spree relative to Chretien.

But still produced surplus budgets....

Indeed. Other leaders we know who claimed to be fiscally responsible made reckless spending cuts that cost us big and are still costing us big ("what does this do? I don't know, let's cut it). So what is fiscal responsibility? Is the kid who buys a brand new car and decides not to get oil changes so he can “save” money being fiscally responsible? Was Chretien’s move to cancel our contract for desperately needed helicopters fiscally responsible? A cancelled contract we had to pay a big penalty for and we still desperately need the now even more expensive helicopters. Yes, how do we define fiscal responsibility?
research shows right-wingers tend to be less intelligent than left-wingers, and people with low
childhood intelligence that tend to grow up to be conservative with racist and homophobic views

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Re: Did the Conservatives pick a Dud?

Postby Glacier » Jan 22nd, 2018, 7:33 pm

hobbyguy wrote:But still produced surplus budgets....

So did Harper, even when should have spent into deficit. Harper's spending was not out of line with Martin, except for 2009 when he was forced to dig into a financial hole. Maybe he spent too much relative to Martin and Chretien, but Justin Trudeau has upped that big time. If her spent like Harper, the government would not be in deficit. But of course you know this because you did say the responsible spending stopped with Martin.

Given the options, I wish Mulcair would have won.

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Re: Did the Conservatives pick a Dud?

Postby Ka-El » Jan 22nd, 2018, 7:48 pm

Glacier wrote: Given the options, I wish Mulcair would have won.

And given the likely options in the next election, we might have to consider his replacement :smt045
research shows right-wingers tend to be less intelligent than left-wingers, and people with low
childhood intelligence that tend to grow up to be conservative with racist and homophobic views

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Re: Did the Conservatives pick a Dud?

Postby bob vernon » Jan 24th, 2018, 7:16 pm

Steve's sparkling string of surpluses:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/multimedia/canad ... -1.3042571

Yeah, I know it's from a leftist news source that just can't be trusted.

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Re: Did the Conservatives pick a Dud?

Postby seewood » Jan 24th, 2018, 7:56 pm

[quote="Ka-El"]Was Chretien’s move to cancel our contract for desperately needed helicopters fiscally responsible? A cancelled contract we had to pay a big penalty for and we still desperately need the now even more expensive helicopters. Yes, how do we define fiscal responsibility?

Ha, we ended up purchasing the very same type of helicopter for our search and rescue fleet. Most definitely a dumb move to cancel the original order. The half billion penalty could have bought a few of the EH101's.The EH 101 was a proven helicopter except for a flaw in the tail rotor hub that was soon upgraded. The "cyclone" is just a military version of the Sikorsky S-92 that has been used in off-shore transport for years. Why it has taken this long to get sorted I suspect is the military continually moving the goal posts.
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Re: Did the Conservatives pick a Dud?

Postby Merry » Jan 25th, 2018, 11:04 am

Ka-El wrote:
Glacier wrote: Given the options, I wish Mulcair would have won.

And given the likely options in the next election, we might have to consider his replacement :smt045

I too wish Mulcair had won, because I remain convinced that he would have made a far better PM than Justin Trudeau ever will. But I don't know enough about Jagmeet Singh to have much of an opinion about him.

I am concerned that he only succeeded in his run for leadership because of his ethnic background, as opposed to his policies. Because we all know that there are some who will vote for a visible minority just because they ARE a visible minority, in an attempt to "level the political playing field". And we also know that there are others who will vote for someone who is an identifiable member of their own particular ethnic group, in the belief that person will better represent the interests of that group. It was reported at the time that a lot of people who share Mr. Singh's ethnic background bought NDP memberships for that specific purpose prior to the leadership vote.

I'm not saying that such reasons are the only reason Mr. Singh won, but I am concerned that they might be. Because if they are, that calls into question his suitability as a PM who would represent ALL Canadians, with policies designed to further our National Interest, as opposed to the more narrow interests of those who helped him gain the NDP Leadership.

To convince people who share my concern to give him their vote, Mr. Singh is going to have to do a better job of getting his message out regarding his proposed policies. And he also needs to find a way to convince the voting Public that the more radical views of folks such as those who authored the "Leap Manifesto" will not be allowed to overly influence a future NDP Government.
"In a world swathed in political correctness, the voting booth remains the final sanctuary where the people are free to speak" - Clifford Orwin

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Re: Did the Conservatives pick a Dud?

Postby Ka-El » Jan 25th, 2018, 2:02 pm

Merry wrote: To convince people who share my concern to give him their vote, Mr. Singh is going to have to do a better job of getting his message out regarding his proposed policies. And he also needs to find a way to convince the voting Public that the more radical views of folks such as those who authored the "Leap Manifesto" will not be allowed to overly influence a future NDP Government.

Agree with everything you said in your post Merry. On another thread I posted ...

Ka-El wrote: This next election could be a pretty good opportunity for the federal NDP. However, I suspect it might end in up as a missed opportunity. I hope not. My life won’t change no matter who our next Prime Minister is (the only thing I have left to care about is the well-being of my community and reputation of our great nation), and politics on these threads will carry on. But just for the sake of the exploding brains on these threads it would be worth it to see Singh as our next Prime Minister.

But I don’t want him to just be some mouthpiece for other interests as per the usual same ol’, same ol’. I’ve read many posts now by posters talking about the need for some vision in our leadership, and I agree. Trudeau showed great promise during the election campaign, and maybe we’re just starting to see some more of the benefits of his “world travel” - but if the economy is doing as well as now, and people are working and happy, I think Trudeau will be very hard to beat.

For Singh to have any chance in this next election, he would have to have a very realistic and well articulated plan for protecting economic growth. The NDP have a stigma to overcome. It will be interesting to see what tact Singh takes, and if he restrains from or uses attack ads. I think most people are getting pretty sick and tired of listening to a politician from one political party criticizing a politician from another political party on matters of honesty and integrity.

He’s also got to have something Trudeau doesn’t that Canadians would like even more. I haven’t seen much lately. Maybe he’s saving it as a big surprise to start the next election campaign. I think this next election is going to be most entertaining.
research shows right-wingers tend to be less intelligent than left-wingers, and people with low
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Re: Did the Conservatives pick a Dud?

Postby hobbyguy » Jan 25th, 2018, 3:21 pm

Glacier wrote:
hobbyguy wrote:But still produced surplus budgets....

So did Harper, even when should have spent into deficit. Harper's spending was not out of line with Martin, except for 2009 when he was forced to dig into a financial hole. Maybe he spent too much relative to Martin and Chretien, but Justin Trudeau has upped that big time. If her spent like Harper, the government would not be in deficit. But of course you know this because you did say the responsible spending stopped with Martin.

Given the options, I wish Mulcair would have won.


Sorry Galcier, but Harper did not produce surpluses... 'ceptin before his policies took root at the very beginning. Granted, 08/09 were hardly of Harper's making, but the trend was there from the get go.

At any rate, Harper did offer a direction and a plan with specific promises (many broken - like the tiple E senate...). But they all do that when trolling for votes.

So far all I see from Sheer and his buddy Skippy Poilievre is typical career pols who will, when it comes time for the election be sharp shrilled screaming and selectively making promises to troll for votes - rather than present a cohesive and thought out platform. In other words, to use my word of the day, I see a snollygoster.
We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both. - Louis D. Brandeis
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Re: Did the Conservatives pick a Dud?

Postby Glacier » Jan 25th, 2018, 5:03 pm

hobbyguy wrote:Sorry Galcier, but Harper did not produce surpluses... 'ceptin before his policies took root at the very beginning. Granted, 08/09 were hardly of Harper's making, but the trend was there from the get go.

At any rate, Harper did offer a direction and a plan with specific promises (many broken - like the tiple E senate...). But they all do that when trolling for votes.

So far all I see from Sheer and his buddy Skippy Poilievre is typical career pols who will, when it comes time for the election be sharp shrilled screaming and selectively making promises to troll for votes - rather than present a cohesive and thought out platform. In other words, to use my word of the day, I see a snollygoster.

Look, I'm not defending Harper at all. I was not a fan, but I don't believe in lying and hatemongering just because he had to go. He started with a surplus and ended with a surplus, but in the middle because of crash in 2008 and the massive spending in 2009, he had deficits, which took 5 years to dig out of before going into surplus. Now, what was the alternative? The alternative was Dion and Iggy who both promised even more spending than Harper. And then Trudeau, who promised far more spending than Harper and Muclair. Now, relative to Martin/Chretien, Harper might be considered irresponsible with spending, but relative to every other option since then (besides, perhaps Muclair), he was fiscally prudent. Andrew Coyne has already shown with graphs if Trudeau would have increased spending as Harper had planned, there would be no deficit. It makes sense to go into deficit during a financial crisis, but to do so when times are good with no plan whatsoever to get out of it is the height of fiscal irresponsibility. It's the most horrible fiscal management ever, or at lest since Trudeau the first.

In summary, yes, you can argue that Harper is fiscally irresponsible relative to Martin/Chretien (and I would agree), but if you want to consistent, Harper is fiscally responsible relative to Trudeau. Harper is gone, so it's all water under the bridge now.

As for the Sheer, I'm curious as to who you think the Conservatives should have chosen? Leitch? O'leary? Wayne Gretzky? Your mom? Who would be a leader that you would vote for in 2020?

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Re: Did the Conservatives pick a Dud?

Postby Merry » Jan 25th, 2018, 6:19 pm

Glacier wrote:It makes sense to go into deficit during a financial crisis, but to do so when times are good with no plan whatsoever to get out of it is the height of fiscal irresponsibility.

10/10

As for the Sheer, I'm curious as to who you think the Conservatives should have chosen?

Lisa Raitt would have been my choice.
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Re: Did the Conservatives pick a Dud?

Postby GrooveTunes » Jan 25th, 2018, 6:44 pm

hobbyguy wrote:^^ problem is the Conservatives weren't fiscally responsible. The last fiscally responsible government was the Martin Liberals - and they got trounced at the polls...


Liberals stole 28 BILLION from pension plans to pay off debit. Ya that's a responsible LIB gov't.....quit making stuff up.

Even with $28 billion being taken out of Federal pension plan in 1999 by the then Liberal Government for paying down the national debt and later dividing Canada Post into a separate pension plan in 2000, solvency valuation was not a threat to the company’s economic condition. In fact, the Canada Post pension was doing so well that the Corporation took a pension holiday starting in 2007 and 2008 with anticipation that the holiday would last for a number years. There was optimism that the money normally reserved for pension would be diverted as part of the stimulus for the postal transformation. $585 million was never injected into the pension as it normally should have during this period, nor were there any special payments.


This isn't union talk. https://canadasmodernpost.wordpress.com/2016/06/27/the-canada-post-pension-plan-the-elephant-in-the-room/
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Re: Did the Conservatives pick a Dud?

Postby hobbyguy » Jan 26th, 2018, 5:41 pm

Merry wrote:
Glacier wrote:It makes sense to go into deficit during a financial crisis, but to do so when times are good with no plan whatsoever to get out of it is the height of fiscal irresponsibility.

10/10

As for the Sheer, I'm curious as to who you think the Conservatives should have chosen?

Lisa Raitt would have been my choice.


I can agree with Lisa Raitt as my second choice, my favorite would have been Michael Chong.
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