Coming to a road near you? (Automated Cars)

[Dizzy1]

Please yes! I can't handle the people who bought their licenses at a corner store being allowed to drive any longer.

On a less glib note however; I think after they solve the winter driving issues (improved lidar is making its way through testing currently) this will be a great way to reduce the huge amount of people dying in traffic accidents. Though sadly local governments will take a hit to their budgets with the reduction in traffic fines. I'm sure they'll wrangle a piece of the action from the insurance companies however.

Thoughts?

So what happens when my automated car hits your automated car? Who’s at fault? Me? The car? The manufacturer? Software developer?

Automated cars are a long way off - not due to technology but the complete overhaul needed in liability.

[CapitalB]

Why would they hit each other? The point of taking people out of the picture is to eliminate accidents.

[Omnitheo]

Every accident that has occurred with an automated vehicle now has been shown to be the fault of other human drivers. Essentially the automated car is following the rules, and then a human driver does something unexpected and runs into the automated car.

The better question though, is how do automated cars deal with the trolly problem. Ie, when do they endanger the lives their occupants or innocents to save the lives of others. Does a car swerve into one innocent person to avoid hitting a crowd of j-walkers that are suddenly on the road not giving the car time to decelerate?

[CapitalB]

Every accident that has occurred with an automated vehicle now has been shown to be the fault of other human drivers. Essentially the automated car is following the rules, and then a human driver does something unexpected and runs into the automated car.

The better question though, is how do automated cars deal with the trolly problem. Ie, when do they endanger the lives their occupants or innocents to save the lives of others. Does a car swerve into one innocent person to avoid hitting a crowd of j-walkers that are suddenly on the road not giving the car time to decelerate?

I think for the amount of times that type of situation could come up its not worth even programming the cars to think about it. Protect the people in the vehicle at all times regardless of external circumstances. It makes the most sense legally, and generally that situation won't come up for a vehicle that always operates safely.

[dirtybiker]

You will see it in Transport trucks before personal cars.

The article is a year old..

https://www.wired.com/2016/10/ubers-sel ... 000-beers/

It does say there are still hurdles, like sudden weather changes and construction zones.
And only for open highway.
Jay walkers and kids on bikes pose a problem.

[Jlabute]

Here's an example of a self-driving Tesla that caused a fatality. Due to the color of the vehicle in front of the Tesla, and not being able to distinguish glare from the vehicle against a bright sky, a crash occurred. Simple sensors can be fooled in many ways by rain, snow, fog, bright lights or glare, dirt, road splatter, other radar sources, etc. There could be many driving situation exceptions not even thought of that could fool sensors, potentially leading to a crash. The AI system is so complex it needs extensive testing any time any parameter is changed - very time consuming. it is far from being a trivial problem, and I personally don't see a robust system one can trust in all driving conditions until about 2030 or later. There will be trials of so called level 5 cars for a long time.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/jun/30/tesla-autopilot-death-self-driving-car-elon-musk

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/15/business/fatal-tesla-crash-in-china-involved-autopilot-government-tv-says.html

[CapitalB]

Here's an example of a self-driving Tesla that caused a fatality. Due to the color of the vehicle in front of the Tesla, and not being able to distinguish glare from the vehicle against a bright sky, a crash occurred. Simple sensors can be fooled in many ways by rain, snow, fog, bright lights or glare, dirt, road splatter, other radar sources, etc. There could be many driving situation exceptions not even thought of that could fool sensors, potentially leading to a crash. The AI system is so complex it needs extensive testing any time any parameter is changed - very time consuming. it is far from being a trivial problem, and I personally don't see a robust system one can trust in all driving conditions until about 2030 or later. There will be trials of so called level 5 cars for a long time.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/jun/30/tesla-autopilot-death-self-driving-car-elon-musk

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/15/business/fatal-tesla-crash-in-china-involved-autopilot-government-tv-says.html

One count it one death total. In the same time a small country of people have died from human drivers.

Lets put that aside for now and go back to the levels time lines. Lets say your close to right, I still think 12 years is an absurd amount of time with the speed technology progresses at but sure level fives is quite a way off. However level 4 fully autonomous inside restricted, read cities, are already in use right now. So sure lets say level 5 is a long time testing, level 4 is hear and will be going hard in the mean time.

[Jflem1983]

So if i have a self driving car. Am i free to booze and cruise


If not i fail to see the upside of having a computer drive for me

[CapitalB]

So if i have a self driving car. Am i free to booze and cruise


If not i fail to see the upside of having a computer drive for me

Why wouldn't you be allowed to, assuming its yours, its not like your state of intoxication is a safety issue at that point. You should be able to drink, sleep, text, whatever else you want to do when your not driving.

[CapitalB]

Also its not just having a computer driving for you, its having computers driving for all the other people thats the big selling point. Generally people are bad at driving, not all people but the majority for sure, which is a great reason to make it unnecessary for them to drive themselves around.

[Jlabute]

Here's an example of a self-driving Tesla that caused a fatality. Due to the color of the vehicle in front of the Tesla, and not being able to distinguish glare from the vehicle against a bright sky, a crash occurred. Simple sensors can be fooled in many ways by rain, snow, fog, bright lights or glare, dirt, road splatter, other radar sources, etc. There could be many driving situation exceptions not even thought of that could fool sensors, potentially leading to a crash. The AI system is so complex it needs extensive testing any time any parameter is changed - very time consuming. it is far from being a trivial problem, and I personally don't see a robust system one can trust in all driving conditions until about 2030 or later. There will be trials of so called level 5 cars for a long time.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/jun/30/tesla-autopilot-death-self-driving-car-elon-musk

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/15/business/fatal-tesla-crash-in-china-involved-autopilot-government-tv-says.html

One count it one death total. In the same time a small country of people have died from human drivers.

Lets put that aside for now and go back to the levels time lines. Lets say your close to right, I still think 12 years is an absurd amount of time with the speed technology progresses at but sure level fives is quite a way off. However level 4 fully autonomous inside restricted, read cities, are already in use right now. So sure lets say level 5 is a long time testing, level 4 is hear and will be going hard in the mean time.

Perhaps, but restrictions applied, such as in urban sunny areas with year round good weather, subject to good driving conditions, and continual maintenance on the sensors. Still, self-driving deaths or injuries as a proportion of those using self-driving vehicles is high. No doubt stupid drivers cause accidents, but at this time you wouldn't want 500,000,000 self-driving cars on the road. Even though technology forges ahead faster and faster in terms of electronics, sensors, die size and processing speed, this does not necessarily make any self-driving vehicle smarter, it just allows vehicles to make dumb choices faster. Here is another example of a self-driving vehicle that screwed up after an hour of use.

https://www.engadget.com/2017/11/09/las-vegas-self-driving-shuttle-bus-crash/

[CapitalB]

Perhaps, but restrictions applied, such as in urban sunny areas with year round good weather, subject to good driving conditions, and continual maintenance on the sensors. Still, self-driving deaths or injuries as a proportion of those using self-driving vehicles is high. No doubt stupid drivers cause accidents, but at this time you wouldn't want 500,000,000 self-driving cars on the road. Even though technology forges ahead faster and faster in terms of electronics, sensors, die size and processing speed, this does not necessarily make any self-driving vehicle smarter, it just allows vehicles to make dumb choices faster. Here is another example of a self-driving vehicle that screwed up after an hour of use.

https://www.engadget.com/2017/11/09/las-vegas-self-driving-shuttle-bus-crash/

From the article - A spokesperson for AAA, which is sponsoring the latest pilot program, said on Twitter that the accident was due to "human error" on the part of the truck driver.

Also no the proportion of accidents with self driving cars is not high.

The researchers concluded that the national crash rate of 4.2 accidents per million miles is higher than the crash rate for self-driving cars, which is 3.2 crashes per million miles.

[Jlabute]

How many vehicles are doing those million miles? (Which isn’t much for vehicles in testing)

[36Drew]

So what happens when my automated car hits your automated car? Who’s at fault? Me? The car? The manufacturer? Software developer?

That's easy. Which vehicle then violated the MVA? If your vehicle didn't "see" the other vehicle and turned left in front of it -
even though the other vehicle failed to brake - your vehicle still "broke the law". Tort law says it's you, as the owner, that bears a strict liability for your equipment or property if it causes damage or injury to another's property or person. If you (or your insurance company - if they're paying on your behalf then they assume your interests) feel and can show that there's a hardware or software issue that the manufacturer should have dealt with or forewarned you of, then you may have cause of action against them.

[36Drew]

Here's an example of a self-driving Tesla that caused a fatality.

As has been pointed out, it's not an example of that. It's an example of a Tesla owner, with autopilot engaged, failing to brake to avoid another driver that was turning when he shouldn't have been. In addition, it's clear that the Tesla owner was ignoring all warnings to keep hands on the wheel, failing to notice the vehicle ahead, and failing to brake.

The car didn't cause the fatality - it didn't, however, prevent it.