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Jordan Peterson gets baited 36 times in 29 minutes in the UK

Re: Jordan Peterson gets baited 36 times in 29 minutes in th

Postby Verum » Jan 21st, 2018, 2:24 pm

Glacier wrote:Thanks for totally misrepresenting my views. I looked up the tweets in question, and totally agreed with the article that called her the c word, b word, and other hateful language was way out of line. How could I not be clearer? I found one tweet that said RIP Cathy Newman, which could be construed as a death threat, though I read it as RIP your career. Which tweets did I miss? Funny how you have no problem with 20% of Muslims that support radical hateful authoritarian beliefs, so much so that you get upset when someone points out such facts, but 1% of JP fans call for radical hateful beliefs, and you come completely unglued as if he represents a horrible belief system.

I guess it's time for you to misrepresent my views now. Well done!
"Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience." Explains why so few people reply to me, and why I might not reply
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Re: Jordan Peterson gets baited 36 times in 29 minutes in th

Postby dirtybiker » Jan 21st, 2018, 2:51 pm

I don't even know where to begin, or even if I should.

I see it quite clear he speaks with passion.
He sees as I see, daily, of men so brow beat and pushed down, they struggle with their own self
of being.
Low self esteem, wayward souls that struggle for their own identity in our
f'd up world.
No wonder we have such a homelessness issue. Give up on society as a whole and just
wander aimlessly through life, such as it is.
Not to mention addiction issues.

Men today are shamed into the fact that they were born men..

Glad I'm well past my half-way point in life,

Flame on......
"Don't 'p' down my neck then tell me it's raining!"
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Re: Jordan Peterson gets baited 36 times in 29 minutes in th

Postby Glacier » Jan 21st, 2018, 3:18 pm

Verum wrote:I guess it's time for you to misrepresent my views now. Well done!

You seem to think some of his views are "problematic". I would be interested in why you think he shouldn't be discussing such views. What if he's right? If you think he's wrong, articulate why this is so.

You seem to be making the same mistake as the BBC interviewers by assuming he espouses the views of the alt right when nothing could be further from the truth.
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Re: Jordan Peterson gets baited 36 times in 29 minutes in th

Postby Verum » Jan 21st, 2018, 4:00 pm

Glacier wrote:
Verum wrote:I guess it's time for you to misrepresent my views now. Well done!

You seem to think some of his views are "problematic". I would be interested in why you think he shouldn't be discussing such views. What if he's right? If you think he's wrong, articulate why this is so.

You seem to be making the same mistake as the BBC interviewers by assuming he espouses the views of the alt right when nothing could be further from the truth.

He certainly should feel free and actively discuss his views. I would never suggest that he not do so, just that he should be clear that he is not an expert in many of the fields on which he offers his opinion. As a professor, one is often afforded a certain degree of respect and authority, and it is his responsibility to make sure that he doesn't abuse such by allowing his audience to believe that his expertise in clinical psychology extends to other fields.

I know well that he doesn't espouse the same views as the alt-right, but some of his views he expresses fit neatly with their views and he doesn't make it clear that he is not an expert in many or most of these areas. He basically uses his accepted expertise as a way to push a somewhat conservative ideology in areas he is not an expert.

Two interesting opinion pieces:
http://www.macleans.ca/opinion/is-jordan-peterson-the-stupid-mans-smart-person/
https://nowtoronto.com/news/professorship-versus-censorship-jordan-peterson-speak/

There is an AMA with a sociologist where he tears Peterson apart, but I can't find it right now. Tearing him apart is not really hard to do. Look for the things he only discusses in front of welcoming audiences and rarely elsewhere. Look for terminology which sounds intentionally incendiary and not the kind of term you would expect an expert in the field to use. Look for the non sequiturs. Look for the times he is being less precise in his language and speaking in broader generalities. Look for the times he uses literature as an example, rather than a clinical study. Things like that.

He's a really smart guy, but I suspect that he accidentally stumbled on a recipe where he uses his shared values with the right and alt-right and makes some very smart sounding statements which fit with those values, and where there is science to back them up, brings in a smattering of that. He is a very good public speaker, an excellent educator and sadly his talents are being used to tell people the kind of stuff they want to hear, not to really educate them. Some and maybe even much of what he says is very good and will have positive effect, but the fact that he doesn't really challenge any core beliefs of his followers and never discloses that he really isn't an expert in much of what he talks about. Frankly, it's dishonest of him.
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Re: Jordan Peterson gets baited 36 times in 29 minutes in th

Postby Glacier » Jan 21st, 2018, 10:40 pm

Verum wrote:Frankly, it's dishonest of him.

Whoa, are you calling him a liar?! I couldn't disagree more. I think Jordan Peterson and Sam Harris are probably the most honest people out there, and certainly far, far more honest than their critics.

Again, I will ask you to back up your claim about Peterson. Don't pull a Cathy Newman this time, just simply name a single fact he has wrong.

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Re: Jordan Peterson gets baited 36 times in 29 minutes in th

Postby Verum » Jan 21st, 2018, 11:07 pm

Glacier wrote:
Verum wrote:Frankly, it's dishonest of him.

Whoa, are you calling him a liar?! I couldn't disagree more. I think Jordan Peterson and Sam Harris are probably the most honest people out there, and certainly far, far more honest than their critics.

Again, I will ask you to back up your claim about Peterson. Don't pull a Cathy Newman this time, just simply name a single fact he has wrong.

Dishonest in an intellectual fashion. He does not adequately inform his fans that he is not an expert in many of the areas he talks about, yet still widely uses the term Professor Jordan Peterson. That is intellectual dishonesty, not because he is outright lying, but because he is allowing his followers to have an impression of him which is not backed up by credentials or expertise.
There are many critiques out there if you care to look. I believe I linked a couple before, but here is another on why Peterson is essentially a charlatan:
http://mixedmentalarts.co/jordan-peterson-doesnt-understand-the-relevant-philosophy/
Watch anything he says on postmodernism and then actually learn what it is from an academic stand point, or probably better still, do it the other way around, since he's the one using it inappropriately. He completely fails to understand postmodernism and applies some concepts from the philosophy end of things to situations in life for which they are neither intended or suited. I don't know your field of study, but taking something from computer science, it's like applying CPU scheduling to how you organise your life. You can do it, but it's a really dumb idea and you're using concepts out of context. Or another, it's like taking the mechanisms you use to cut metal,such as laser cutting or water jet cutting, and applying them to cutting cheese in a cheese-mongers. It might work, but it's a really dumb idea.

This is just one of the things he goes on a bit of a crusade over. His stupid Neo-Marxism stuff is borderline conspiracy theory stuff too.
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Re: Jordan Peterson gets baited 36 times in 29 minutes in th

Postby Glacier » Jan 22nd, 2018, 7:45 am

Verum wrote: His stupid Neo-Marxism stuff is borderline conspiracy theory stuff too.

You only think it's stupid because you're a neo-Marxist. Of course you're going to object when someone calls Marxism the most evil ideology of the 20th century (even though it's objectively true).

Check out the Lindsay Shepherd affair. It's not conspiracy theory at all. If she hadn't secretly recorded her interview, she would have had nothing to stand on. Even as is, the postmodernist neo-Marxist objective-truth-is-a-social-construct-invented-by-white-supremecy crowd sided with the authoritarian thugs. The whole Lindsay Shepherd affair shows that Peterson is absolutely right about the dangers of anti-science neo-Marxism.

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Re: Jordan Peterson gets baited 36 times in 29 minutes in th

Postby Verum » Jan 22nd, 2018, 8:29 am

Glacier wrote:
Verum wrote: His stupid Neo-Marxism stuff is borderline conspiracy theory stuff too.

You only think it's stupid because you're a neo-Marxist. Of course you're going to object when someone calls Marxism the most evil ideology of the 20th century (even though it's objectively true).

Check out the Lindsay Shepherd affair. It's not conspiracy theory at all. If she hadn't secretly recorded her interview, she would have had nothing to stand on. Even as is, the postmodernist neo-Marxist objective-truth-is-a-social-construct-invented-by-white-supremecy crowd sided with the authoritarian thugs. The whole Lindsay Shepherd affair shows that Peterson is absolutely right about the dangers of anti-science neo-Marxism.

So clearly you don't have a clue what postmodernism is either and buy into the same conspiracy theory that Peterson does.
Also, I'm neither a Marxist nor a neo-Marxist. As for whether Marxism is the most evil ideology of the 20th century or not, I haven't commented and don't care to getting into absurd discussions about dead concepts. I'd far rather talk about the dangerous ideologies of today, such as the rise of post-truth among the right, rising fascism etc.
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Re: Jordan Peterson gets baited 36 times in 29 minutes in th

Postby rustled » Jan 22nd, 2018, 8:47 am


Wow. Just, wow. I have no admiration for this kind of rudeness, and tried to read through it anyway.

Southey says there's no polite way to say it. Newsflash, Southey: it takes effort, grace and intelligence to talk about those with whom you personally disagree without coming across as a smug, supercilious ignoramus. Sure doesn't make me want to reinstate my subscription to Macleans. Blech.

What's particularly interesting for me is that Southey's name-calling snark makes Peterson more appealing. So far, I haven't come across him stooping to Southey's level, even when being attacked directly.
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Re: Jordan Peterson gets baited 36 times in 29 minutes in th

Postby Glacier » Jan 22nd, 2018, 8:48 am

Verum wrote:So clearly you don't have a clue what postmodernism is either and buy into the same conspiracy theory that Peterson does.
Also, I'm neither a Marxist nor a neo-Marxist. As for whether Marxism is the most evil ideology of the 20th century or not, I haven't commented and don't care to getting into absurd discussions about dead concepts. I'd far rather talk about the dangerous ideologies of today, such as the rise of post-truth among the right, rising fascism etc.

The most dangerous ideology of the 21st century so far is Islamism, but we still have most of the century to go.

As for Peterson, I don't think you get it. He speaks as an academic, and what he sees on campus. Whatever you want to call it, he's absolutely right, and the Lindsay Shepherd affair proves him so. You are doing the same thing as her critics. When she asked what crime she had committed, they could not name a crime. They told her that whatever it was, it made people feel unsafe, etc, and she would have been fired or silenced for the vague crime of making people "feel unsafe" if she hadn't secretly recorded it. When I ask you how Peterson is wrong, you can't name a single fact he has stated that is wrong. You use the same anti-science approach as Rambukkana. Something about he isn't fully disclosing what he's expert at. That's totally dishonest or at least anti-science sidestepping as far as I'm concerned. You don't have to be an expert to be right about something. If he is wrong, use your own words to tell me what he's wrong about. Just a single fact would suffice. Stop pulling a Rambukkana.

EDIT: I will say this. From reading your posts, I think your heart is in the right place. You care deeply about the suffering of the poor and others who need help, and I commend you for that. My main beef is that I think your response is too much emotional or reactionary to reach an ideal solution, in my opinion.
Last edited by Glacier on Jan 22nd, 2018, 9:09 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Jordan Peterson gets baited 36 times in 29 minutes in th

Postby ferri » Jan 22nd, 2018, 8:50 am

*Do NOT start making this personal! :-X
“When someone is nasty or treats you poorly, don't take it personally. It says nothing about you, but a lot about them.” ― Michael Josephson
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Re: Jordan Peterson gets baited 36 times in 29 minutes in th

Postby Poindexter » Jan 22nd, 2018, 8:53 am

I have to admit that originally I wasn't a fan of Peterson's work. On the surface it seemed like another excuse for young men to be lazy and that his motivation was in backlash to women's rights being pushed to the front as reason for cultural change. Now I've come to understand that the two issues are not mutually exclusive and are without a doubt intertwined.

The suicide rates among young men has reached epidemic proportions and should be enough to make us pay attention to Peterson's theories on the cause. I also appreciate that he doesn't stop there and has developed actionable solutions to the problem. He doesn't simply play the blame game but issues a call to action for young men with steps on how to add meaning to thier lives by getting your stuff together. That self respect isn't some unattainable goal but can start with something as little as cleaning your room.

I also take some exception to the tone of the interviewer in the first video because as I said, women's and men's issues are intertwined so this isn't just about the guys. Women also benefit from his theories because it is them who end up marrying a man who is emotionally an adolescent or who's only solice comes from addiction to alcohol and drugs.

I personally think Peterson's work will save lives and make men better spouses and fathers, and who doesn't want that?

Edit: grammar
Last edited by Poindexter on Jan 22nd, 2018, 9:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Jordan Peterson gets baited 36 times in 29 minutes in th

Postby Glacier » Jan 22nd, 2018, 8:57 am

Poindexter wrote:I personally think Peterson's work will save lives and make men better spouses and fathers, and who doesn't what that?

I agree. Now, some of his fans might be jerks (though even more of Cathy Newman's fans are also jerks), but he is doing good work reaching out to young men who are suicidal and hopeless. His BBC interview was quite emotional.



Here's a more thorough video...

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Re: Jordan Peterson gets baited 36 times in 29 minutes in th

Postby Glacier » Jan 22nd, 2018, 8:54 pm


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Re: Jordan Peterson gets baited 36 times in 29 minutes in th

Postby The Green Barbarian » Jan 22nd, 2018, 10:14 pm

Verum wrote: she had the audacity to interview him in a somewhat confrontational fashion. .


oh good grief, what a stupid way to misrepresent the obvious. Just incredible.

Anyway, here's what a total leftist bonehead had to say about "Newmangate" - most of his article is gibberish in defense of Newman and her terrible interview, which is no surprise given this guy is from the insipid fake news organization The Guardian, but then he had a glimmer of intelligence when he wrote this:

Of all the delusions that grip our fractious era, one of the worst is the confident belief that greater restriction of speech will necessarily serve progressive ends. I see no logic in that whatsoever. As Peterson warns, everyone finds something objectionable or upsetting. It would be a moment of maximum peril if the primary test applied to expression became its capacity to offend. Why assume that those setting the rules would necessarily support the powerless or the disenfranchised? The injunction “You can’t say that” leads just as plausibly to Margaret Atwood’s Gilead or to Oceania.

To be a citizen is to engage, and the Newman-Peterson interview is a model of that engagement. Unless you believe that history has a self-evident direction – and it really doesn’t – you must accept that almost all progress is achieved by the hard grind of negotiation, tough debate and busy pluralism. The aphasia of “no-platform” and the bedlam of the digital mob add nothing to the mix. To quote the great African-American scholar Henry Louis Gates: let them talk.


I was shocked and amazed. A leftist actually valuing free speech? I haven't heard of this kind of leftist existing since the Clinton era (Bill, not crooked Hillary)....

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ree-speech
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