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{Party Agnostic} Generally unhappy with the Canada politics

{Party Agnostic} Generally unhappy with the Canada politics

Postby CapitalB » Jan 23rd, 2018, 2:29 pm

*No political Cheer-leading please.

Can we complain about all the politics, all the parties and the system they operate in while trying to remember that all politicians should be assumed scumbags until proven otherwise. Whether your complaining, debating, or just venting try to stick to facts ;)

For my part;

I wish that instead of voting against someone I could vote for someone for once. I mean I could do it anyway but if you vote for a loser your vote feels like a waste, if you vote for third place what was even the point. Strategic voting websites shouldn't be a thing.

I don't like any of the parties . The Liberals are constantly full of crap making promises they have no intention of delivering, the Conservatives are more likely to deliver their promises but I do not like anything they are selling, and the NDP oh the silly silly NDP have spent so long as a background character that after losing the one guy they had with vision they are now just kind of aimless. None of the other parties matter though I will say that the Green party policy wise seem like radically ignorant hippies.

I wish there were more parties, and that they were all smaller. I imagine that would make for a slower government but I would rather have a slow government that did a good job and didn't make two in three people feel like their vote was wasted for four years at a time. Even if the parties ended up being more specific and issue based that would be fine with me, maybe they would fade out when their issue was done.

I'm so sick of career politicians, "donations", and the utterly pathetic way we handle political crimes and misdeeds. Every time they break a (most) law they should be stripped of office, fined, possibly jailed and dragged through the mud by the press.

--

Sorry if I hogged all the complaining. Have fun.
We are all capable of believing things which we know to be untrue, and then, when we are finally proved wrong, impudently twisting the facts so as to show that we were right.
― George Orwell

PS: I'm probably playing devils advocate.

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Re: {Party Agnostic} Generally unhappy with the Canada polit

Postby Omnitheo » Jan 23rd, 2018, 9:37 pm

Seems your argument against the NDP is that they’ve been a background player. Would these more smaller parties not be the same?

I can understand being disenfranchised with the Liberals and Conservatives, but until the NDP have a shot and can prove themselves more interested in leading than in abusing the system for their own gain (a la grits and Tories) then I’d say it’s unfair to write them off.

That said, in terms of smaller parties, well if we had electoral reform this is exactly what could happen. There would be a more diverse list of parties and candidates to choose from. Governments would mainly be minorities which would have to collaborate with other parties to pass bills. This is actually closer to how it works in most democratic systems.
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Re: {Party Agnostic} Generally unhappy with the Canada polit

Postby Verum » Jan 24th, 2018, 1:58 am

Yes, I'd like to see a party who look to the future with vision, who use science and evidence, and not political opinions for decision making, who try to educate the people of why they are making a decision, rather than implementing the reactionary voice of the masses, who treat businesses friendly policies as a means to an end, not the end itself, who encourage innovation in business, rather than looking after the existing businesses and consider the consumer and population as the only group whose utility they ultimately look after, for the long term.

Sadly, none of the parties come close. They are stuck in the late 20th century and are more concerned with preserving some aspect of the status quo or a few special interest groups, than actually doing what is best for us.
"Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience." Explains why so few people reply to me, and why I might not reply
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Re: {Party Agnostic} Generally unhappy with the Canada polit

Postby bob vernon » Jan 24th, 2018, 7:55 am

We need proportional representation to help foster these smaller parties. Government will be more collaborative with, gasp, coalitions between parties. When a party can obtain a majority in the house with less than 40% of the population voting for them, something is wrong. It leads to situations where a leader can campaign on "no way do we want wage and price controls" and then push exactly that on us once elected. Or a leader campaigning by saying "Free trade...... I'll have none of it". And then weeks after winning a majority, announcing we were getting Free Trade.

I agree that we need a more honest system. And the threat of being defeated in the house is the best way to get that. Proportional representation. Please.

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Re: {Party Agnostic} Generally unhappy with the Canada polit

Postby Ka-El » Jan 24th, 2018, 8:08 am

Omnitheo wrote: That said, in terms of smaller parties, well if we had electoral reform this is exactly what could happen. There would be a more diverse list of parties and candidates to choose from. Governments would mainly be minorities which would have to collaborate with other parties to pass bills. This is actually closer to how it works in most democratic systems.

Stephen Harper was at his best when leading a minority government. It's too bad he allowed his petulance and arrogance to overcome him when he had the majority. At least minority governments make politicians work like they're supposed to.
"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative." - John Stuart Mill

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Re: {Party Agnostic} Generally unhappy with the Canada polit

Postby CapitalB » Jan 24th, 2018, 9:58 am

Omnitheo wrote:Seems your argument against the NDP is that they’ve been a background player. Would these more smaller parties not be the same?


Actually my problem with the ndp is that they seem aimless, no vision or defining direction. Its like they deliberately are trying to place themselves between the liberals and the greens without really putting a lot of effort into it.
We are all capable of believing things which we know to be untrue, and then, when we are finally proved wrong, impudently twisting the facts so as to show that we were right.
― George Orwell

PS: I'm probably playing devils advocate.
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Re: {Party Agnostic} Generally unhappy with the Canada polit

Postby CapitalB » Jan 24th, 2018, 10:00 am

bob vernon wrote:We need proportional representation to help foster these smaller parties. Government will be more collaborative with, gasp, coalitions between parties. When a party can obtain a majority in the house with less than 40% of the population voting for them, something is wrong. It leads to situations where a leader can campaign on "no way do we want wage and price controls" and then push exactly that on us once elected. Or a leader campaigning by saying "Free trade...... I'll have none of it". And then weeks after winning a majority, announcing we were getting Free Trade.

I agree that we need a more honest system. And the threat of being defeated in the house is the best way to get that. Proportional representation. Please.


Absolutely. Every against PR argues that its slow, and prone to hang ups (like our current government isn't) as if those are bad things. Those are features and the opposite features are not great reasons to keep our current system. Sure they get lots done with a majority but the next party in power spends two years fixing all the crazy from the last party before putting their own brand of crazy on the country.
We are all capable of believing things which we know to be untrue, and then, when we are finally proved wrong, impudently twisting the facts so as to show that we were right.
― George Orwell

PS: I'm probably playing devils advocate.

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Re: {Party Agnostic} Generally unhappy with the Canada polit

Postby Woodenhead » Jan 24th, 2018, 12:03 pm

I abhor party politics. But that isn't going away any time soon. So, more realistically, I'd start with 2 changes: electoral reform (anything other than FPP), and more importantly, eliminate money from the equation. No more lobbying or donations.
Wealth without work. Pleasure without conscience. Knowledge without character. Commerce without morality. Science without humanity. Politics without principle. Your bias suits you.

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Re: {Party Agnostic} Generally unhappy with the Canada polit

Postby Ka-El » Jan 24th, 2018, 1:27 pm

CapitalB wrote:
Omnitheo wrote:Seems your argument against the NDP is that they’ve been a background player. Would these more smaller parties not be the same?

Actually my problem with the ndp is that they seem aimless, no vision or defining direction. Its like they deliberately are trying to place themselves between the liberals and the greens without really putting a lot of effort into it.

This next election could be a pretty good opportunity for the federal NDP. However, I suspect it might end in up as a missed opportunity. I hope not. My life won’t change no matter who our next Prime Minister is (the only thing I have left to care about is the well-being of my community and reputation of our great nation), and politics on these threads will carry on. But just for the sake of the exploding brains on these threads it would be worth it to see Singh as our next Prime Minister.

But I don’t want him to just be some mouthpiece for other interests as per the usual same ol’, same ol’. I’ve read many posts now by posters talking about the need for some vision in our leadership, and I agree. Trudeau showed great promise during the election campaign, and maybe we’re just starting to see some more of the benefits of his “world travel” - but if the economy is doing as well as now, and people are working and happy, I think Trudeau will be very hard to beat.

For Singh to have any chance in this next election, he would have to have a very realistic and well articulated plan for protecting economic growth. The NDP have a stigma to overcome. It will be interesting to see what tact Singh takes, and if he restrains from or uses attack ads. I think most people are getting pretty sick and tired of listening to a politician from one political party criticizing a politician from another political party on matters of honesty and integrity.

He’s also got to have something Trudeau doesn’t that Canadians would like even more. I haven’t seen much lately. Maybe he’s saving it as a big surprise to start the next election campaign. I think this next election is going to be most entertaining.
"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative." - John Stuart Mill

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