Page 21 of 40
Re: thou shalt not kill
Posted: Feb 13th, 2018, 10:32 am
by Osoyoos_Familyof4
I know I can find this if I look, but does anyone have a really good link that has an actual blow by blow account of what came out in trial that is easy to read and succinct? Not opinion, just what happened according to the prosecution and defendants?
Thanks.
Re: thou shalt not kill
Posted: Feb 13th, 2018, 10:37 am
by Ka-El
GordonH wrote: Of course there is absolutely no way of knowing the race of the people selected randomly to be in the pool of possible jury members. That is whole thing about having random selection.
From what I understand from watching various news stories, random selection of jury candidates is drawn from a pool of people listed in Saskatchewan's health care system. Aboriginals living on reserves are excluded from that.
Re: thou shalt not kill
Posted: Feb 13th, 2018, 10:38 am
by Ka-El
mexi cali wrote: This was self defense or preservation if you like.
Could be, and the Criminal Code allows for that:
section 37.(1) of the Criminal Code specifies “everyone is justified in using force to defend himself or anyone under his protection from assault, if he uses no more force than necessary to prevent the assault or the repetition of it. More specific to matters concerning the protection of property, section 41.(1) states “everyone who is in peaceable possession of a dwelling house or real property, and everyone lawfully assisting him or acting under his authority, is justified in using force to prevent any person from trespassing on the dwelling house or real property, or to remove a trespasser therefrom,
if he uses no more force than necessary.”
However, I’m not so sure this is so cut and dry in this case. As Norma has pointed out, there are some questions that have still not been answered (here anyway). For example, “why if Mr Stanley was so fearful he approached the vehicle with an unloaded gun?”
Re: thou shalt not kill
Posted: Feb 13th, 2018, 10:41 am
by Osoyoos_Familyof4
Ka-El wrote:GordonH wrote: Of course there is absolutely no way of knowing the race of the people selected randomly to be in the pool of possible jury members. That is whole thing about having random selection.
From what I understand from watching various news stories, random selection of jury candidates is drawn from a pool of people listed in Saskatchewan's health care system. Aboriginals living on reserves are excluded from that.
Is this true? Holy crap if true, that is loco!
And do Natives not have the same healthcare cards in any province as anyone else? I don't know anything about that, I just assumed they did.
Re: thou shalt not kill
Posted: Feb 13th, 2018, 10:44 am
by Ka-El
Osoyoos_Familyof4 wrote: And do Natives not have the same healthcare cards in any province as anyone else?
Apparently not in Saskatchewan according the news story I saw last night.
Re: thou shalt not kill
Posted: Feb 13th, 2018, 11:08 am
by GordonH
GordonH wrote: Of course there is absolutely no way of knowing the race of the people selected randomly to be in the pool of possible jury members. That is whole thing about having random selection.
Ka-El wrote:From what I understand from watching various news stories, random selection of jury candidates is drawn from a pool of people listed in Saskatchewan's health care system. Aboriginals living on reserves are excluded from that.
If that's the case then those who do the selections (usually Sheriffs department), should add into that pool/database both Provincial & Federal voters lists.
Re: thou shalt not kill
Posted: Feb 13th, 2018, 11:26 am
by alanjh595
Osoyoos_Familyof4 wrote:I know I can find this if I look, but does anyone have a really good link that has an actual blow by blow account of what came out in trial that is easy to read and succinct? Not opinion, just what happened according to the prosecution and defendants?
Thanks.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/na ... e37929427/
Re: thou shalt not kill
Posted: Feb 13th, 2018, 11:47 am
by mexi cali
A couple things; first, to the "if he was so fearful, why did he" question. At the point that he decided to eject the magazine, he may have felt that the imminent danger was over which was why he approached the vehicle with the intent to remove the keys which would obviously make it so the intruders couldn't get away. If we accept his story regarding the misfire, those actions support that.
Reagrding the jury selection; someone posted a great article that spoke to that. It basically said that there were several natives (I have heard as many as 14?) present for the process but they were dismissed as was the defenses right to do so. The reason for the dismissal, at least according to the person who wrote the article, was that there was talk amongst the native candidates about Stanley which led to their dismissal due to them not meeting the impartiality requirement and that there were white candidates who were dismissed for the same reasons.
Re: thou shalt not kill
Posted: Feb 13th, 2018, 11:49 am
by blueliner
from another source
Chris Carnell
12 hrs ·
What is a national shame is when Alfred Wagner of Bonnyville, AB was murdered in his home by thieves who came onto his land to steal a pick-up truck.
What's a national shame is when an elderly woman from Debden, SK is beaten with a wooden baseball bat in her own home by thieves.
What's a national shame is when Kirk DeSchryver from Denzil, SK is ran over twice by thieves on his farm who were there to steal his ATV.
What's a national shame is when Ian Thompson's Port Colborne, ONT farmhouse is firebombed with maltov cocktails by tresspassers.
What's a national shame is when at 2 am a pregnant mother near Hardisty, AB hears her vehicle start up on her farm she goes out to investigate and has a loaded gun pointed at her as the thieves leave her property.
What is a national shame is that people living in rural areas have to fear for their lives when they hear a vehicle roll up on their driveway. Is this someone looking for help, is this a friend, or is this someone here to steal your stuff, burn your house down, assualt you, ram you with a vehicle, trash your property or even murder you?
What is a national shame is when a man doing some daily chores with his son on his farm is forced to defend his family and his home when a vehicle with 5 black-out drunk violent thieves with a loaded weapon, on a crime spree involving multiple victims decide to come on to his property, ram his vehicles, attempt to steal property and use their vehicle to try and hit the people living there.
What is a national shame is when the media and politicians then use the dead criminal as a prop to further divide a country, to race bait, to demonize rural citizens, to decieve, to try and distract from the actual problem of unchecked rural crime, to promote an atmosphere tense with fear and anger, to shut down any discussion by calling people racist.
In any of those situations who would hesitate to defend their family by any means necessary? If we stop looking at this issue through a coloured lense we can see the problem for what it truly is.
Re: thou shalt not kill
Posted: Feb 13th, 2018, 1:08 pm
by madcan
All of this back and forth about justifiable and what not. I have read the stories just like the rest of you ( I assume if your commenting) And i am left with a couple questions.
Colten was in the passenger seat? How are they supposed to leave when asked, when there is no driver in the car?
Stanley said he heard the engine rev which inturn prompted him to remove the keys from the ignition? ( refer to top question)
So how does one rev engine to intimidate or run over someone else from the passenger seat, and how in the hell are they supposed to leave your property with you taking the keys? I am at a loss here seems like some rural farmer took justice in his own hands like many on here have stated they would do in the same situation. But i don't believe it was warranted.
Oh and for the loaded shotgun they had, look at the pictures of it. No stalk or trigger. and was found in the back seat.
Re: thou shalt not kill
Posted: Feb 13th, 2018, 1:32 pm
by Mark1111
What is a national shame is that our society is so far down the PC rabbit hole that we are afraid to point out to FN people that the problem starts at home. Discipline your kids to respect property and people. Not every FN or while kid finds himself stealing and trespassing. It’s called parenting. Stop blaming society.
Re: thou shalt not kill
Posted: Feb 13th, 2018, 1:38 pm
by mexi cali
I learned my lesson about farmers and the lengths they'll go to to protect their property when I was maybe 18 or so. I was legally on land owned by a friend on an acreage in SOuthern Alberta doing some target shooting. Apparently, some of my shots were coming close to a neighboring farm and specifically, cattle.
My fault 100% event though I wasn't aware of what I was doing but I soon was when he started to shoot back.
That whistling sound as a bullet buzzes by your head is a sound I never want to hear again.
His gun was bigger than mine so the prudent thing to do was to crawl back to safety, which I did and I was thankful not to have any ventilation holes on my person.
Lesson learned.
Re: thou shalt not kill
Posted: Feb 13th, 2018, 1:48 pm
by Nedroj
Mark1111 wrote:What is a national shame is that our society is so far down the PC rabbit hole that we are afraid to point out to FN people that the problem starts at home. Discipline your kids to respect property and people. Not every FN or while kid finds himself stealing and trespassing. It’s called parenting. Stop blaming society.
I think we can ALL agree on this.
Re: thou shalt not kill
Posted: Feb 13th, 2018, 2:30 pm
by GordonH
Mark1111 wrote:What is a national shame is that our society is so far down the PC rabbit hole that we are afraid to point out to FN people that the problem starts at home. Discipline your kids to respect property and people. Not every FN or while kid finds himself stealing and trespassing. It’s called parenting. Stop blaming society.
Even when parents do there very best to teach their children/child all the ways to be respectful. The child still can become rebellious &/or get involved with a bad crowd.
It all comes down to each person taking ownership of there actions &/or reactions. Having the
actual guts to accept the consequences for those actions &/or reactions. An example: sticking around after an accident (and cooperate with the police) or being that person who hits & runs.
Re: thou shalt not kill
Posted: Feb 13th, 2018, 2:59 pm
by The Green Barbarian
Mark1111 wrote:What is a national shame is that our society is so far down the PC rabbit hole that we are afraid to point out to FN people that the problem starts at home. Discipline your kids to respect property and people. Not every FN or while kid finds himself stealing and trespassing. It’s called parenting. Stop blaming society.
I think it's a lot deeper than that. I am all for discipline but there is a much bigger problem very few in this country seem to want to address. I am with this FN chief on this:
Assembly of First Nations National Chief Acknowledges International Fetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorder Awareness Day
(Ottawa, ON) – On International Fetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorder (FASD) Awareness Day, Assembly of First Nations (AFN) National Chief Shawn A-in-chut Atleo encourages Indigenous peoples and all Canadians to continue to press for the need for adequate supports and preventative measures to reduce and eliminate the incidence of FASD in Canada.
“Fetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorder affects far too many Indigenous families in this country, and I fully support all efforts to improve awareness and preventative supports for all our families,” said AFN National Chief Shawn Atleo. “FASD has far-reaching consequences for First Nation families and communities, including implications on child and family service agencies, education, justice and overall health and well-being. This is just another reason why we must work together to heal as individuals and communities – to reconcile our pasts, and move forward with the courage and strength required to achieve healthier families and communities. We must work together to ensure our peoples are supported in efforts to increase awareness of the consequences of drinking during pregnancy, not only for individuals, but for whole communities. Not only must preventative supports be available to all, we also cannot forget the interventions required in communities for those already affected by FASD.”
Acknowledged annually since 1999 on the ninth day of the ninth month, International FASD Awareness Day is a reminder that during the nine months of pregnancy a woman should abstain from alcohol.
FASD is an umbrella term that includes a wide range of effects that can occur in individuals whose mother drank alcohol during pregnancy. These effects may include physical, mental, behavioural, and learning disabilities that carry with them lifelong implications.
http://www.afn.ca/2013/09/09/assembly-o ... tional-fe/