Pipelines and carbon taxes: We're thinking about them ~wrong

Pipelines and carbon taxes: We're thinking about them ~wrong

Postby CapitalB » Feb 24th, 2018, 12:14 pm

Pipelines and carbon taxes: We're thinking about them all wrong

The gulf between those opposed to resource development ("keep it in the ground") and those opposed to stringent action on climate ("job killing carbon taxes") appears intractable. But it isn't.

Canadians, for the most part, accept the evidence that climate change is real and believe we should act. So do our leaders. Last June, all but one federal MP voted to reaffirm our Paris commitment to lower greenhouse gas emissions (GHGs) to 30 per cent below 2005 levels by 2030.
So much of the violent push-back on everything progressive and reformist comes down to: I can see the future, and in this future I am not the centre of the universe and master of all that I survey, therefore this future must be resisted at all costs.
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Re: Pipelines and carbon taxes: We're thinking about them ~w

Postby Cactusflower » Feb 24th, 2018, 12:41 pm

CapitalB wrote:Pipelines and carbon taxes: We're thinking about them all wrong

The gulf between those opposed to resource development ("keep it in the ground") and those opposed to stringent action on climate ("job killing carbon taxes") appears intractable. But it isn't.

Canadians, for the most part, accept the evidence that climate change is real and believe we should act. So do our leaders. Last June, all but one federal MP voted to reaffirm our Paris commitment to lower greenhouse gas emissions (GHGs) to 30 per cent below 2005 levels by 2030.


Sorry, but I don't believe in Trudeau and Alberta's mantra, "We can lower GHGemissions by increasing GHG emissions". That's basically what this opinion piece is telling us. Furthermore, the author decided to ignore the elephant in the room........the oil tanker spills in B.C.'s coastal waters. This needs to be addressed, and that's eactly what B.C.'s Premier is trying to do.
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Re: Pipelines and carbon taxes: We're thinking about them ~w

Postby CapitalB » Feb 24th, 2018, 12:50 pm

Cactusflower wrote:Sorry, but I don't believe in Trudeau and Alberta's mantra, "We can lower GHGemissions by increasing GHG emissions". That's basically what this opinion piece is telling us. Furthermore, the author decided to ignore the elephant in the room........the oil tanker spills in B.C.'s coastal waters. This needs to be addressed, and that's eactly what B.C.'s Premier is trying to do.]



The article was mostly focused on overall world green house gas emissions. The pipline itself, and the shipping won't really effect that very much since we're already taking the oil out of the ground and sending it places. Arguably the pipline would reduce the emissions from trains used to transfer bitumen currently. Since the bitumens being mined, and sold and consequently consumed already I don't think it will really effect overall emissions very much either way.

I also share the strong concern in regards to the transportation of various oil substances but by and large that transportation is happening along our coast anyhow. Even if its not leaving from our province its traveling the length of it. I mean sure to a degree we arent directly responsible for the current throughput traffic but if its still traveling through it has the same chance of spillage.

Ultimately I would like canada to just kill the oil sands, previous governments have kind of turned it into a crutch however and I really think that we're going to have to wean the country off of it like quitting cigarettes. I feel like the most expedient way forward would be to finish the current projects, make sure the government is doing literally everything possible to ensure safety of transportation. Then use the increase in revenue and direct it towards green power initiatives, especially in alberta, to help build a sustainable energy industry.
So much of the violent push-back on everything progressive and reformist comes down to: I can see the future, and in this future I am not the centre of the universe and master of all that I survey, therefore this future must be resisted at all costs.

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Re: Pipelines and carbon taxes: We're thinking about them ~w

Postby ninetyninepct » Mar 4th, 2018, 7:46 pm

Is there a Russian connection and funding to Canadian environmental groups and pipeline hate groups like has been discovered in the United States?

Did Russia influence the East pipeline cancellation? Did they pay off the Montreal mayor? Did they bribe Trudeau? Did Russia do that to protect their sales of gas and oil to Europe rather than Europe buying Canadian oil?

Spend a few minutes to learn about a new angle:

http://dailysignal.com/2017/08/25/cia-v ... pipelines/
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Re: Pipelines and carbon taxes: We're thinking about them ~w

Postby Snman » Mar 4th, 2018, 7:55 pm

'Killing' the tarsands is the stupidest and most unlikely thing I have ever heard. You imbeciles make me want to puke tar sand!!!
I know nothing except the fact of my ignorance - Socrates

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Re: Pipelines and carbon taxes: We're thinking about them ~w

Postby Cactusflower » Mar 5th, 2018, 2:08 pm

Snman wrote:'Killing' the tarsands is the stupidest and most unlikely thing I have ever heard. You imbeciles make me want to puke tar sand!!!


Chill, for goodness sake. I offered an alternative industry for Alberta yesterday, but it wasn't received very well because I tried to make a joke of it by saying they could use the tar sands tailings ponds for the aquaculture I suggested.

Seriously though, aquaculture is a viable alternative to mining for bitumen. There's plenty of water in AB in which to raise Atlantic salmon, and since they're not welcome on the Pacific coast anyway, why not raise them on the other side of the Rockies?
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Re: Pipelines and carbon taxes: We're thinking about them ~w

Postby The Green Barbarian » Mar 5th, 2018, 4:02 pm

CapitalB wrote:
Canadians, for the most part, accept the evidence that climate change is real ]


The climate is always changing. Is man-kind having any effect? That's what is still up for debate, and so far, the answer has to be "no", as no evidence has ever been provided to contradict this. I think it's disingenous to say that climate change is real. DUH. Of course it is. Man-made climate change is what some still think is real, and that's the scary party, as these people seem to be really anti-science in their beliefs.
Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy. Its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
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Who's Dimples? Who's the MP for Kelowna? Both interesting questions that are hard to answer.

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Re: Pipelines and carbon taxes: We're thinking about them ~w

Postby Cactusflower » Mar 5th, 2018, 4:53 pm

^^It's almost as funny as some Canadian government signing a deal with the Norwegian aquaculture dudes in the first place.
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Re: Pipelines and carbon taxes: We're thinking about them ~w

Postby The Green Barbarian » Mar 5th, 2018, 5:21 pm

Cactusflower wrote:
Seriously though, aquaculture is a viable alternative to mining for bitumen.


you do realize that "viable" means that this would be self-sustaining from an economic perspective right? That it would actually provide a return on capital invested and not require constant injections to stay afloat? Not "viable" in the sense of useless and stupid wind farms, in that they are "viable" as long as taxpayers continue to pump millions of dollars into the project on an annual basis as it will never make money. You realize that right? Oh wait...of course not.
Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy. Its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
- Winston Churchill

Who's Dimples? Who's the MP for Kelowna? Both interesting questions that are hard to answer.

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Re: Pipelines and carbon taxes: We're thinking about them ~w

Postby Cactusflower » Mar 5th, 2018, 5:35 pm

^^Seems my fellow members are unable to refute either of my comments on Alberta's inability to replace the bitumen industry.
Someone should be able to do better than [icon_lol2.gif] or a rude non-answer.
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Re: Pipelines and carbon taxes: We're thinking about them ~w

Postby hobbyguy » Mar 5th, 2018, 5:37 pm

The Green Barbarian wrote:
Cactusflower wrote:
Seriously though, aquaculture is a viable alternative to mining for bitumen.


you do realize that "viable" means that this would be self-sustaining from an economic perspective right? That it would actually provide a return on capital invested and not require constant injections to stay afloat? Not "viable" in the sense of useless and stupid wind farms, in that they are "viable" as long as taxpayers continue to pump millions of dollars into the project on an annual basis as it will never make money. You realize that right? Oh wait...of course not.


Actually GB, that CF post is a very good example of just how ridiculous the anti-pipeline and anti-oil sands crowd have become. The credibility of someone who actually thinks fish farming on the prairies could replace the economic engine of the oil sands is what? Minus 12,999 to 100th power?

We should save it as a classic example far left green/orange nonsense.
We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both. - Louis D. Brandeis

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Re: Pipelines and carbon taxes: We're thinking about them ~w

Postby Ka-El » Mar 5th, 2018, 5:47 pm

hobbyguy wrote: Actually GB, that CF post is a very good example of just how ridiculous the anti-pipeline and anti-oil sands crowd have become. The credibility of someone who actually thinks fish farming on the prairies could replace the economic engine of the oil sands is what? Minus 12,999 to 100th power?

I hadn't realized these fish farms were fossil fuel independent. What are the farms made of I wonder? How do the workers get to and from work? How many jobs are there compared to the oilsands? Don't they ever have to communicate with anyone else to operate these farms? What kinds of royalties get paid to anyone - or do they require funding?
Who's dimples ?

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Re: Pipelines and carbon taxes: We're thinking about them ~w

Postby Cactusflower » Mar 5th, 2018, 6:00 pm

Ka-El wrote:
hobbyguy wrote: Actually GB, that CF post is a very good example of just how ridiculous the anti-pipeline and anti-oil sands crowd have become. The credibility of someone who actually thinks fish farming on the prairies could replace the economic engine of the oil sands is what? Minus 12,999 to 100th power?

I hadn't realized these fish farms were fossil fuel independent. What are the farms made of I wonder? How do the workers get to and from work? How many jobs are there compared to the oilsands? Don't they ever have to communicate with anyone else to operate these farms? What kinds of royalties get paid to anyone - or do they require funding?


Again, Google is your friend. As to all the other braying, it's obvious that at some point in the not-too-distant future, Alberta's going to have to find alternative ways to grow their economy. Aquaculture could be one of them. Let's see some other suggestions.

Crickets? I thought so. Oh wait.......that's not a bad idea either. There's a movement afoot to replace the protein we derive from Alberta beef, etc. with crickets and other insects. [icon_lol2.gif]
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Re: Pipelines and carbon taxes: We're thinking about them ~w

Postby flamingfingers » Mar 5th, 2018, 6:13 pm

Alberta should revive the whitefish population in the many lakes and streams the whitefish are native. Succulent, delicate flavor with an abundance of nutritious omega oil. They feed on insects and plankton and are not carnivorous.
Why do people who fancy themselves "fiscal conservatives" not scream at hidden debt accumulated in the past dozen years? Or, do they only object to spending on social programs?

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Re: Pipelines and carbon taxes: We're thinking about them ~w

Postby Ka-El » Mar 6th, 2018, 6:54 am

Cactusflower wrote: Again, Google is your friend. As to all the other braying, ...

"When you know a thing, to hold that you know it, and when you do not know a thing,
to allow that you do not know it: this is knowledge
" -- Confucius
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