Pipelines and carbon taxes: We're thinking about them ~wrong

Re: Pipelines and carbon taxes: We're thinking about them ~w

Postby The Green Barbarian » Mar 6th, 2018, 10:37 am

flamingfingers wrote:Alberta should revive the whitefish population in the many lakes and streams the whitefish are native. Succulent, delicate flavor with an abundance of nutritious omega oil. They feed on insects and plankton and are not carnivorous.


Wow, I actually think I agree with you on something. Amazing.
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Who's Dimples? Who's the MP for Kelowna? Both interesting questions that are hard to answer.

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Re: Pipelines and carbon taxes: We're thinking about them ~w

Postby The Green Barbarian » Mar 6th, 2018, 10:39 am

Cactusflower wrote:^^Seems my fellow members are unable to refute either of my comments on Alberta's inability to replace the bitumen industry.
.


what was there to refute? You provided nothing in terms of examples, just an empty statement with zero to back it up. "Replace the bitumen industry" - with what though? Oh right, thinking is hard. Empty statements are much easier.
Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy. Its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
- Winston Churchill

Who's Dimples? Who's the MP for Kelowna? Both interesting questions that are hard to answer.

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Re: Pipelines and carbon taxes: We're thinking about them ~w

Postby rustled » Mar 6th, 2018, 10:41 am

Cactusflower wrote:...

Crickets? I thought so. Oh wait.......that's not a bad idea either. There's a movement afoot to replace the protein we derive from Alberta beef, etc. with crickets and other insects. [icon_lol2.gif]

Yep (although I'd temper that with "some of the protein"):
https://www.castanet.net/news/Canada/22 ... cery-aisle
Wonder how it would work to ship crickets and/or whitefish through pipelines?
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Re: Pipelines and carbon taxes: We're thinking about them ~w

Postby rustled » Mar 6th, 2018, 10:57 am

The Green Barbarian wrote:
Cactusflower wrote:^^Seems my fellow members are unable to refute either of my comments on Alberta's inability to replace the bitumen industry.
.


what was there to refute? You provided nothing in terms of examples, just an empty statement with zero to back it up. "Replace the bitumen industry" - with what though? Oh right, thinking is hard. Empty statements are much easier.

It's funny how often those promoting change to public policy are only prepared to call for the change. They're seldom prepared to either consider or take responsibility for any of the consequences of that change.

It makes it soooo much easier to support change when you can pretend it all happens in a vacuum. This takes an extraordinary amount of denial, naivete, or gullibility. Every age has its do-gooders, and our time has those who believe carbon taxes and stopping pipelines, etc., is all for the greater good.
Metro Vancouver opponents of Kinder Morgan's Trans Mountain pipeline expansion believe their protests could cost the company hundreds of millions of dollars, if they can impede the project for just three more weeks.
...
They believe the delay could cost Kinder Morgan about half-a-billion dollars and say they are ready to be arrested in order to achieve their goal.
https://www.castanet.net/news/BC/220384 ... otest-plan

I learned the hard way to follow the money and question everything, after having been a useful idiot for someone else's agenda. You'd think that would be easier to avoid in this day and age, with so much information readily available at our fingertips, but somehow the wheat's better hidden in the massive pile of chaff.

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Re: Pipelines and carbon taxes: We're thinking about them ~w

Postby Snman » Mar 6th, 2018, 6:44 pm

Thinking about carbon taxes? Check this out. I want to leave my carbon footprint on the rear end of all the politicians sucking 'carbon tax' out of my pocket.

https://www.castanet.net/news/Letters/2 ... -footprint

Oh, and I understand that the writer has not had 'papers reviewed by his peers' but I don't care.
I know nothing except the fact of my ignorance - Socrates

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Re: Pipelines and carbon taxes: We're thinking about them ~w

Postby CapitalB » Mar 7th, 2018, 3:24 pm

Hello everyone! Fun Facts time:

BC has had a carbon tax since 2008.

It mostly just effects companies.

Most people receive a climate action tax rebate every few months after doing their taxes.

Its more about leveling off the amounts of carbon entering the atmosphere than it is about drastically reducing them.

The tax suggested by the federal government is 10$ per tonne of carbon, BC charges 30 $ tonne. The federal program is super mild, and again BC's has been in place for a decade.

You guys are basically complaining a bunch about something that doesn't really impact your lives in anyway.

Keep up the good work.
So much of the violent push-back on everything progressive and reformist comes down to: I can see the future, and in this future I am not the centre of the universe and master of all that I survey, therefore this future must be resisted at all costs.
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Re: Pipelines and carbon taxes: We're thinking about them ~w

Postby The Green Barbarian » Mar 7th, 2018, 3:51 pm

CapitalB wrote:
It mostly just effects companies.


It affects me every time I fill up with gas. And when I get my natural gas bill. So no, it doesn't just mostly affect companies.

Most people receive a climate action tax rebate every few months after doing their taxes.


"Most" people? You mean people with incomes below $34K per year. If "most" people made this, there would be no social safety net in this country, as no one would be paying much if any taxes. This is crap.

Its more about leveling off the amounts of carbon entering the atmosphere than it is about drastically reducing them.


No, it's about the government reaching into our pockets for even more tax money, knowing there are pathetic mush-heads out there who will clap like trained seals about paying this tax because they are horribly gullible and can't do math.


You guys are basically complaining a bunch about something that doesn't really impact your lives in anyway.

Keep up the good work.


What we are complaining about is a stupid tax that helps no one. And yet there are dumb-dumbs out there who seem to think it's a good thing, thanks mostly to liars who keep this myth going. Keep up the good work.
Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy. Its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
- Winston Churchill

Who's Dimples? Who's the MP for Kelowna? Both interesting questions that are hard to answer.

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Re: Pipelines and carbon taxes: We're thinking about them ~w

Postby rustled » Mar 7th, 2018, 3:59 pm

Boggles the mind that anyone can believe the carbon tax, which is intended to bring down emissions by adding a cost to everything that produces emissions, will not actually drive up the cost of anything.

IMO, it's a pretty clear example of foisting a public policy on folk regardless whether or not anyone can prove that policy's efficiency or effectiveness in addressing the issue that it's intended to address, and having that policy kept in place by gullible virtue signalers getting all superior about "being on the right side of it" without having any way to measure or prove it's at all necessary. All while ignoring and downplaying the consequences of that policy. As usual.

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Re: Pipelines and carbon taxes: We're thinking about them ~w

Postby CapitalB » Mar 7th, 2018, 4:01 pm

By most people I literally mean most people.

This article explains how the average canadian earns 38k a year, and only 10% make over 80k
So sure there are quite a few people that make over 34k but there are way more making under it.
So much of the violent push-back on everything progressive and reformist comes down to: I can see the future, and in this future I am not the centre of the universe and master of all that I survey, therefore this future must be resisted at all costs.
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Re: Pipelines and carbon taxes: We're thinking about them ~w

Postby Snman » Mar 7th, 2018, 4:13 pm

Never got a carbon tax rebate, not once. Now I feel really cheated. :-X
I know nothing except the fact of my ignorance - Socrates

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Re: Pipelines and carbon taxes: We're thinking about them ~w

Postby rustled » Mar 7th, 2018, 4:17 pm

CapitalB wrote:By most people I literally mean most people.

This article explains how the average canadian earns 38k a year, and only 10% make over 80k
So sure there are quite a few people that make over 34k but there are way more making under it.

Hm. Your table shows average income per individual, right? But that's not what counts:
https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/taxe ... ate-action
The credit is reduced by 2% of family net income over the income threshold.

The following table shows the income threshold amounts.

Tax Year 2017
Payment Dates July 2018 - June 2019
Net Income Threshold Single $33,993
Net Income Threshold Married or Single Parent $39,658


I'll let you do the math to figure out whether or not "most people" applies, because for me the bottom line is still this: public policy is being enacted without proof the carbon tax will change the climate, and we are diverting resources without proper regard for the consequences.

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Re: Pipelines and carbon taxes: We're thinking about them ~w

Postby CapitalB » Mar 7th, 2018, 4:20 pm

So much of the violent push-back on everything progressive and reformist comes down to: I can see the future, and in this future I am not the centre of the universe and master of all that I survey, therefore this future must be resisted at all costs.
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Re: Pipelines and carbon taxes: We're thinking about them ~w

Postby Snman » Mar 7th, 2018, 4:24 pm

^^^ So we see it has curtailed petrol sales, which appear to have been in decline prior to the carbon tax, but where is the proof it is helping the climate? ^^^ COUGH!
I know nothing except the fact of my ignorance - Socrates

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Re: Pipelines and carbon taxes: We're thinking about them ~w

Postby rustled » Mar 7th, 2018, 4:28 pm

"Cough" indeed. What a dogs' breakfast.

Is this intended to prove the carbon tax doesn't cost ordinary people money but does change the climate? If so, it's a bit like using average individual income from 2015 instead of family net income from 2017, and figuring "that'll do". 'Fraid it won't. IMO, of course.

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Re: Pipelines and carbon taxes: We're thinking about them ~w

Postby CapitalB » Mar 7th, 2018, 4:36 pm

Snman wrote:^^^ So we see it has curtailed petrol sales, which appear to have been in decline prior to the carbon tax, but where is the proof it is helping the climate? ^^^ COUGH!


The climate is a slow beast, you don't push a button and it magically changes in an instant. This is the same straw man you people use to argue against climate change. Its slow, climate science works with data sets that span decades, or centuries. The idea is that reducing carbon output now will save us problems later. I don't expect that to matter though, it'll be countered with the short sighted rhetoric that is constantly dragged out against the whole issue. JERBS ERCONEMY TAXES, a bunch of arguments that show a complete lack of understanding of not only how taxes, the economy, and job creation works but of how long term consequences work. Deniers are arguing for Now results, rational science believing people are looking at this whole long term thing that seems not to matter to a bunch of people who literally only care about themselves in this minutes. I know you guys like to see it the other way because thats a whole lots easier to incorporate into your (colloquially) point of view.
So much of the violent push-back on everything progressive and reformist comes down to: I can see the future, and in this future I am not the centre of the universe and master of all that I survey, therefore this future must be resisted at all costs.
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