Taxpayers to Fund Pipeline

Re: Taxpayers to Fund Pipeline

Postby hobbyguy » Jun 8th, 2018, 5:22 pm

Actually, in the context of cutting fossil fuel subsidies Canada has done decently well. https://www.nrdc.org/experts/han-chen/g7-countries-waste-100-billion-year-coal-oil-and-gas

What appears to be actually happening is that Canada started on the worst culprit - coal - and phased that out. The oil and gas subsidy reductions are being more difficult to phase out given the context of the US increasing subsidies and lower than hoped for prices, so a gradual weaning is about all that is feasible.

Responsible governance is a lot more difficult that making rash campaign promises. Especially when our main export channel is controlled by a jurisdiction that is increasing subsidies. Be a lot easier if we get closer to world market prices instead of US gerrymandered prices (less need for subsidies in the first place).

By G7 standards Canada's subsidies are relatively small - but would be nice to have none at all - AND drop all the stupid wind and solar subsidies.
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Re: Taxpayers to Fund Pipeline

Postby Cactusflower » Jun 8th, 2018, 8:28 pm

^^Why are clean renewable energy subsidies 'stupid' when it's obvious that fossil fuels as an energy source are on the way out and renewable energy sources are replacing them everywhere except Canada. Honestly HG, was your grandpa one of those guys who said those new-fangled horseless carriages would never replace the horse and buggy?
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Re: Taxpayers to Fund Pipeline

Postby Jflem1983 » Jun 8th, 2018, 8:29 pm

Cactusflower wrote:^^Why are clean renewable energy subsidies 'stupid' when it's obvious that fossil fuels as an energy source are on the way out and renewable energy sources are replacing them everywhere except Canada. Honestly HG, was your grandpa one of those guys who said those new-fangled horseless carriages would never replace the horse and buggy?



How is it obvious fosil fuels is on way out. Show evidence
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Re: Taxpayers to Fund Pipeline

Postby Walking Wounded » Jun 8th, 2018, 11:06 pm

Cactusflower wrote:^^Why are clean renewable energy subsidies 'stupid' when it's obvious that fossil fuels as an energy source are on the way out and renewable energy sources are replacing them everywhere except Canada. Honestly HG, was your grandpa one of those guys who said those new-fangled horseless carriages would never replace the horse and buggy?

And most places that went wind and solar are now screaming because people can't afford electricity. I have no doubt that one day we will come up with a cheap clean power supply but that day is not here yet.

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Re: Taxpayers to Fund Pipeline

Postby The Green Barbarian » Jun 8th, 2018, 11:12 pm

Cactusflower wrote:^^Why are clean renewable energy subsidies 'stupid'


Because they are unsustainable. Anyone who can do math knows this.

when it's obvious that fossil fuels as an energy source are on the way out


Obvious to who exactly?

and renewable energy sources are replacing them everywhere except Canada.


More massive lies. Again.

Honestly HG, was your grandpa one of those guys who said those new-fangled horseless carriages would never replace the horse and buggy?


Maybe you should ask yourself why those horseless carriages have been so successful, while wind and solar have been economic disasters.
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Re: Taxpayers to Fund Pipeline

Postby Cactusflower » Jun 9th, 2018, 9:21 am

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Re: Taxpayers to Fund Pipeline

Postby rustled » Jun 9th, 2018, 9:30 am

Cactusflower wrote:^^You call this a 'disaster'?
http://www.cbc.ca/news/indigenous/tsou- ... -1.4067833

Interesting deflection.

Good to see a FN on the southernmost tip of Vancouver Island working toward self-sufficiency. I'm curious as to the cradle-to-grave costs of these solar panels, and how the band funded them. I see the province buys excess power, and I'm curious as to what we're paying for it.

Still, it has very little to do with whether or not the entire country is ready to go without fossil fuels any time soon. I see YVR's answer to this is the airlines serving YVR answered this with a solid "no".

(Edited to correct my misinformation about YVR's involvement in the pipeline. Apologies to all.)
Last edited by rustled on Jun 10th, 2018, 9:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Taxpayers to Fund Pipeline

Postby The Green Barbarian » Jun 9th, 2018, 10:25 am

Cactusflower wrote:^^You call this a 'disaster'?
http://www.cbc.ca/news/indigenous/tsou- ... -1.4067833


Are you responding to my post? If so how and why? You always tell everyone you have me on ignore.
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Re: Taxpayers to Fund Pipeline

Postby alanjh595 » Jun 9th, 2018, 10:55 am

Here, let me help.

CF........somebody asked you a question.

The Green Barbarian wrote:
Cactusflower wrote:^^You call this a 'disaster'?
http://www.cbc.ca/news/indigenous/tsou- ... -1.4067833


Are you responding to my post? If so how and why? You always tell everyone you have me on ignore.
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Re: Taxpayers to Fund Pipeline

Postby Cactusflower » Jun 9th, 2018, 11:40 am

Walking Wounded wrote:
Cactusflower wrote:^^Why are clean renewable energy subsidies 'stupid' when it's obvious that fossil fuels as an energy source are on the way out and renewable energy sources are replacing them everywhere except Canada. Honestly HG, was your grandpa one of those guys who said those new-fangled horseless carriages would never replace the horse and buggy?

And most places that went wind and solar are now screaming because people can't afford electricity. I have no doubt that one day we will come up with a cheap clean power supply but that day is not here yet.


Where are your sources that prove people are screaming because they can't afford electricity due to clean renewable sources of energy? The only people I've heard screaming about their power bills are BC Hydro customers, and that's because the BC Liberals stole all their profits and then decided to have a new, unnecessary mega-dam built.

The only reason that we have so few clean power projects here in B.C.is the lack of political will.
https://phys.org/news/2016-04-fossil-fu ... ecade.html
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Re: Taxpayers to Fund Pipeline

Postby mikest2 » Jun 9th, 2018, 11:48 am

Cactusflower wrote:
Where are your sources that prove people are screaming because they can't afford electricity due to clean renewable sources of energy? The only people I've heard screaming about their power bills are BC Hydro customers, and that's because the BC Liberals stole all their profits and then decided to have a new, unnecessary mega-dam built.

The only reason that we have so few clean power projects here in B.C.is the lack of political will.
https://phys.org/news/2016-04-fossil-fu ... ecade.html


My favourite..........Ontario............
https://www.thespec.com/news-story/7658 ... dog-warns/
Once I thought I was wrong.....but I was mistaken...

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Re: Taxpayers to Fund Pipeline

Postby OKkayak » Jun 9th, 2018, 11:49 am

Cactusflower wrote:that's because the BC Liberals stole all their profits and then decided to have a new, unnecessary mega-dam built.

Oh, you mean the the mega-dam that Horgan wasted millions of dollars fighting, only to change his mind and build it anyways? :up:

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Re: Taxpayers to Fund Pipeline

Postby burnedatstake » Jun 9th, 2018, 11:53 am

OKkayak wrote:Oh, you mean the the mega-dam that Horgan wasted millions of dollars fighting, only to change his mind and build it anyways?


context - the liberals were in too deep financially on the project. if he scrapped the project and paid all the back room deals the liberals signed (eerily similar to the lamented bctf backtroom deal by right wing cheerleaders) there would be no cash to implement the ndp platform - or any collateral for credit. horgan was pragmatic and practical. nothing wrong with that.
democracy means "rule of the people" - capitalism means "rule of the market" - these 2 concepts have a divide that wont be bridged by any amount of patriotic songs or displays.
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Re: Taxpayers to Fund Pipeline

Postby OKkayak » Jun 9th, 2018, 11:54 am

burnedatstake wrote:context - the liberals were in too deep financially on the project. if he scrapped the project and paid all the back room deals the liberals signed (eerily similar to the lamented bctf backtroom deal by right wing cheerleaders) there would be no cash to implement the ndp platform - or any collateral for credit. horgan was pragmatic and practical. nothing wrong with that.

Nice spin :up:

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Re: Taxpayers to Fund Pipeline

Postby burnedatstake » Jun 9th, 2018, 11:57 am

OKkayak wrote:Nice spin :up:


ummm thanks? i guess truth and facts is spin?
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